GUWonder

Indeed. My wild guess is that it's more likely that there is a customer-unfriendly move to materially hike up PQD requirements than there is to be a massive customer-unfriendly adjustment to PQM requirements.

pdx1M

Yes. I've actually been surprised that there has been more discussion/recognition of this. This change should significantly decrease the total number of miles UA has to give out. Sure at the top end folks will get more but many, many more folks will get a lot less. Given the cost crossover points (and remember that most of the crossover point discussion on cpm has been using the relatively tiny number of 1Ks for reference) overall UA will greatly reduce total miles awarded. I suspect this aspect cloaked in the rest of the desire (legitimate) to move to a value based program is what really is driving UA.

bldr1k

As Marriott Platinum, I usually get a decent room on a high floor, but I can't remember the last time I got a suite (it has been years).

I think this depends on how much you pay for the room as well as status.

jjmoore

I think it's more based on availability... I have been upgraded to presidential suite on a discount pre-pay rate at the Marriott in Ft. Collins, CO.... I certainly got a good deal (even without the upgrade). They were virtually empty that night.... don't know the exact numbers.

chitownflyer

Very interesting.

JBord

I had a funny thought this morning. What if DL came back in a few weeks and tweaked their program to make it more customer-friendly? Increase the multipliers by 1 or whatever.

That would put UA in a terrible position. If they change their program, it shows DL is really just pulling their strings. If they don't, they have the worst loyalty program AND worst product/service/quality among the big players.

I know it won't happen, no need to reply with that! I just spend a few minutes a day dreaming of how this management team might hasten its own downfall.

wanderer35

[QUOTE=GUWonder;23027792]Short-haul flyers generally won't maintain or gain miles under the 2015 scheme unless they are willing and able to pay at least $1.50+/minute of flight time. So you have to be willing to pay DL over c. $130/hour of your pretax income to have a reasonable chance to break even on earning miles under the new program."

Where do you see that for UA?

FlyDeltaJets87

Depends on how you spin it. Yea, I may be spending $100/hour while flying if a I buy a $400 flight that's 2 hours each way. But that's still a better use of my time than spending 10 to 15 hours hours driving. If I make $20 hour but spend 10+ hours driving, I'm breaking even by flying (in terms of the monetary value of my time). Plus one has to look at how that compares to wear & tear on their automobile too. Sure, you can get a more efficient automobile, but currently it's an average of $0.55/mile to operate your car. Thus even without looking at time, if I pay $0.20/mile to fly, I'm doing pretty well compared to driving, even if I have to get a rental car at the other end.

No I don't fly as a pilot commercially. I'm an aerospace engineer though so I do have a background with aircraft performance. Yes, short hops have a higher CASM than longer flights (up to a certain point). But a 757 is still going to cost more overall to operate from ATL to LAX than ATL to MCO, so the operating cost for the ATL-LAX flight is still higher, even if the cost per mile is lower. Also, in the time that one aircraft is spending 5 hours operating ATL-LAX, the other aircraft can operate two or three 1 to 1.5 hour flights with paying passengers and bring in additional revenue while that ATL-LAX bird is still churning towards the west coast. The complexiities surrounding CASM are immense - aircraft type, airport fees, slots (did the airline have to pay for a slot at that airport), etc. all factor in true for margin and profit. But in a nutshell a $300 fare for ATL-RDU is still likely going to be more profitable to the airline than a $300 fare for ATL-LAX, so it's time to stop rewarding the ATL-RDU leg with 500 miles (well actually, while the ATL-LAX leg pulls in nearly 4 times as much.

And I say all this as someone who currently flies longer routes most of the time and benefits under the current/outgoing system.

blueonions

the airlines, like most corporations, know that consumers rarely revolt in significant numbers.... what are they gonna do, take Amtrak or Greyhound?

IAH-OIL-TRASH

Why would DL do that? They're probably happy UA has followed them down. Now they don't have to worry about people make decisions based on RDMs and compete on flying experience. DL's now just hoping AA follows.

GBman

The reason most of us don't take Amtrak or Greyhound much is not simply because there is the alternative of flying or driving – it's because they offer generally unpleasant experiences (at least for the time they take). I could note that Amtrak is taking traffic away from airlines on the NYC-WAS route where the experience is better, likewise the Channel Tunnel, but my point is there is another alternative: Travel less. I eliminated two trips for 2nd half 2014 yesterday as a result of all the MP and UA service cuts; it's just too unpleasant.

Of course much travel is not discretionary. But when an industry (and especially this carrier) hasten a move to alternatives like teleconferencing and commoditization they are destroying their value propositions, and that is ultimately incredibly stupid. UA seems like landline telephone companies to me: harvesting their customers and not seeing that those customers will migrate away if they don't maintain enough service and value edge to keep them. I guess you can do what AT&T and Verizon did and buy mobile telephone competitors, but what is UA going to buy? Microsoft already bought Skype.

GBadger

I just can't believe that UA shifted their "HVF" target so dramatically...

For status, $10k PQD is enough for 1k. 1k used to get you a 100% mileage bonus on the 100k miles flown to (re)earn the status. That's 200k RDMs.

With the new system, for a 1k to get those 200k miles, they would have to fly $18181 worth of tickets.

So, basically, UA just requested an 81% premium for obtaining the same number of miles.

exerda

I would not be surprised if in 2015, they announce a 50% hike to the PQD requirements for each level. That's assuming the current leadership is still in place and they haven't tipped into a spiral toward BK as they drive off more and more customers who realize they do have a choice in airlines.

skycrab

So, given that most long-haul flights are booked as a return, if I were to book a return spanning years (eg depart December 2015 return January 2016), which year would you expect to be credited?

greg99

When traveled, just like they do with PQD.