MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
Jan 28, 2015, 5:51 pm
#136
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: YYZ/HKG
Programs: Whatever fleeces my wallet the least
Posts: 178
"With each purchase of my upgrade travel consultation, you will receive one UA Systemwide Global Premiere Upgrade as a free gift. You are only paying for my travel consultation, not the upgrades." They did use my upgrade instruments -- although strangers theoretically only paid for my advice, well .......
"Judge, really, I was just selling the dress to him... The money exchanged wasn't for the consensual activity thereafter... This technically isn't prostitution..."
Sorry to be harsh, but UA absolutely did the right thing here. A change I like.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:01 pm
#137
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
You danced with the devil and you got burned.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:06 pm
#138
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Floating around
Programs: UA 1K (1MM), DL Gold (1MM), Marriott LTT
Posts: 10,346
Was this "advice" you were "selling" offered in a public forum that anyone could see? Or did you do it privately where the public wouldn't have known?
-RM
-RM
Jan 28, 2015, 6:14 pm
#141
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,651
This sounds like the restaurants that were trying to get around the (now over) foie gras ban in California (which just prohibited the sale, not the consumption) with schemes like you get free foie gras with your drink, but the cocktail might be some absurd amount of money.
If it walks like an ugly duckling and quacks like an ugly duckling, it is really the swan song of your MP account.
If it walks like an ugly duckling and quacks like an ugly duckling, it is really the swan song of your MP account.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:18 pm
#142
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,834
I know we are all condemning the OP and applauding UA (as am I) but the OP came looking for advice.
I would suggest first coming off your 'but I didn't sell miles, I only sold travel advice...' stance and start getting honest with yourself and everyone else. You sold SWU's, period. You can try to disguise it all you want but that's the bottom line. Come clean with UA, admit every transaction and beg for mercy. That's your only hope at this stage.
Read the similar thread on the AA forum and the advice from JonNYC. Trying to defend this with semantics or giving them anything other than the full truth and honest remorse and contrition will fail. Time to sack up, take full responsibility for your actions and hope that your years as a GS will help mitigate the damage.
I would suggest first coming off your 'but I didn't sell miles, I only sold travel advice...' stance and start getting honest with yourself and everyone else. You sold SWU's, period. You can try to disguise it all you want but that's the bottom line. Come clean with UA, admit every transaction and beg for mercy. That's your only hope at this stage.
Read the similar thread on the AA forum and the advice from JonNYC. Trying to defend this with semantics or giving them anything other than the full truth and honest remorse and contrition will fail. Time to sack up, take full responsibility for your actions and hope that your years as a GS will help mitigate the damage.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:26 pm
#143
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
Was just on eBay 10 days ago looking at a guy selling "advice" with a free gpu given. I thought to myself "Have people really not learned that UA trolls eBay/other sites for just such sales, and think they won't get caught?"
I'm no internet guru, have no clue about the "dark net", but to me, if I would risk something of great value in conflict with the ToS of the program, I sure as hell wouldn't do it on eBay. I wouldn't do it at all, but if I was less honest, I'd research how easy it historically has been to get caught on eBay, what the consequences for those busted was, and re-evaluate my decision.
UA isn't alone in their policing of their rules. Put a dollar value in things, and flirt with the tax rules changing. I'm guessing that the airlines have to do their best to make these "rebate" benefits as valueless as possible. This is just a theory though.
Just a 411, UA is even tougher or their employees who profit from their limited transferable discounted standby benies. I personally know multiple employees (should I say, former employees) who were terminated for selling their buddy passes for above cost. And these ARE taxable as imputed income, so they don't mess around when anyone violates the ToS of their ancillary benefits.
I'm no internet guru, have no clue about the "dark net", but to me, if I would risk something of great value in conflict with the ToS of the program, I sure as hell wouldn't do it on eBay. I wouldn't do it at all, but if I was less honest, I'd research how easy it historically has been to get caught on eBay, what the consequences for those busted was, and re-evaluate my decision.
UA isn't alone in their policing of their rules. Put a dollar value in things, and flirt with the tax rules changing. I'm guessing that the airlines have to do their best to make these "rebate" benefits as valueless as possible. This is just a theory though.
Just a 411, UA is even tougher or their employees who profit from their limited transferable discounted standby benies. I personally know multiple employees (should I say, former employees) who were terminated for selling their buddy passes for above cost. And these ARE taxable as imputed income, so they don't mess around when anyone violates the ToS of their ancillary benefits.
Last edited by fastair; Jan 28, 2015 at 6:36 pm
Jan 28, 2015, 6:27 pm
#144
Suspended
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Read the similar thread on the AA forum and the advice from JonNYC. Trying to defend this with semantics or giving them anything other than the full truth and honest remorse and contrition will fail. Time to sack up, take full responsibility for your actions and hope that your years as a GS will help mitigate the damage.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:34 pm
#145
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Yes, and while I'm only familiar with AA's procedures/history/etc-- can guarantee that UA's version will be no different; dodging, hedging and semantics will NOT help. They hear the lies all day long -and- they ALWAYS know much more than you think they do, so it's pointless to lie to them anyway.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:49 pm
#146
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
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Both Delta Air Lines Inc. and United Continental Holdings Inc. warned their employees last year that workers caught abusing the privileges could face termination. United’s memo, last month, said that within the past year more than 100 people were fired “due to fraudulent activity related to buddy passes,” primarily for overseas travel.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:50 pm
#147
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Posts: 11,886
Dear all, I'm in desperate for help!
I’m a GS with United. Just received an email from MPCompliance:
We identified mileage from your account was bartered or sold. The Mileage Plus Program Rules clearly indicate that “the sale or barter of any such mileage, certificates, awards or benefits other than as authorized and/or sponsored by United is expressly prohibited. Any mileage, certificates, awards or benefits transferred, assigned or sold in violation of the Program Rules, in addition to exposing the member to the penalties otherwise associated with violations, may be confiscated or canceled. The use of award tickets that have been acquired by purchase, barter or other conduct in violation of Program Rules may result in termination of membership, cancellation of accrued mileage, certificates, awards or benefits, confiscation of the tickets, denial of boarding with respect to the ticket holder, and, at United's discretion, completion of the travel only upon payment of an applicable fare.”
As a result, we permanently closed your account, cancelled all accrued mileage, cancelled any outstanding award tickets issued using mileage as form of payment as well as downgraded reservations using upgrades from your account.
I’m a GS with United. Just received an email from MPCompliance:
We identified mileage from your account was bartered or sold. The Mileage Plus Program Rules clearly indicate that “the sale or barter of any such mileage, certificates, awards or benefits other than as authorized and/or sponsored by United is expressly prohibited. Any mileage, certificates, awards or benefits transferred, assigned or sold in violation of the Program Rules, in addition to exposing the member to the penalties otherwise associated with violations, may be confiscated or canceled. The use of award tickets that have been acquired by purchase, barter or other conduct in violation of Program Rules may result in termination of membership, cancellation of accrued mileage, certificates, awards or benefits, confiscation of the tickets, denial of boarding with respect to the ticket holder, and, at United's discretion, completion of the travel only upon payment of an applicable fare.”
As a result, we permanently closed your account, cancelled all accrued mileage, cancelled any outstanding award tickets issued using mileage as form of payment as well as downgraded reservations using upgrades from your account.
Bottom line: You are not the first person who thought he had "figured it out". You won't be the last. The cost is not worth the risk, as you just found out. Now it's time to move on and start rebuilding your status.
Added: Just checked e-Bay. Someone is trying to sell a United upgrade for $115. Same logic:"I'm only charging you for my time, the upgrade is free".
Last edited by Tchiowa; Jan 28, 2015 at 6:56 pm
Jan 28, 2015, 6:50 pm
#148
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 690
Really? It's suggestive, but far from conclusive. The real issue here is that there has been perhaps -- PERHAPS -- a violation of the intent of the agreement, without perhaps -- PERHAPS -- a violation of the letter of the agreement between the poster and MP, but there is no adjudication to settle the dispute. No fairness tribunal. No way for the poster to argue before binding or even non-binding mediation to make his case. MP gets to decide, and that's that, barring a suit in court.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:55 pm
#149
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
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Really? It's suggestive, but far from conclusive. The real issue here is that there has been perhaps -- PERHAPS -- a violation of the intent of the agreement, without perhaps -- PERHAPS -- a violation of the letter of the agreement between the poster and MP, but there is no adjudication to settle the dispute. No fairness tribunal. No way for the poster to argue before binding or even non-binding mediation to make his case. MP gets to decide, and that's that, barring a suit in court.
It's not credible to assert either that the sale of a GPU does not violate T&C or that the seller was unaware sale of a GPU violates T&C.
Jan 28, 2015, 6:56 pm
#150
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Really? UA would instantly ask that such a suit be dismissed as the T&C of the progam clearly state that UA has pretty much blanket authority to audit accounts, change terms of the pr
gram, etc.
gram, etc.