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-   -   How many are REALLY leaving UA? [2014 edition] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1542654-how-many-really-leaving-ua-2014-edition.html)

AustinPilot Dec 21, 2014 10:14 am


Originally Posted by Always Flyin (Post 24032201)
How many of those upgrades are clearing in advance?

Quite a few, in my experience. Looking back at 2014, I used all six without too much trouble: AMS-IAH (cleared at booking), IAH-AMS (cleared at booking), AMS-IAH (waitlisted, cleared a couple of weeks in advance), JFK-FRA (paper cert on LH), EWR-PEK (cleared at booking), PEK-EWR (waitlisted, cleared 48 hours prior to the flight, the flight went mechanical, got rebooked and upgraded via NRT-EWR). And I was not cherry-picking, either, since my travel is work-related and the dates are pretty much fixed.

In any case, it's not like there is a better alternative for me. Given my typical flying, 110K miles a year or so, all in economy due to work rules, DL won't give me any international upgrade certs at all. I understand AA would give me 8, but from what I've seen, their transatlantic flights still have recliners in business class (except LHR, but I don't fly to LHR) and their route network is not nearly as extensive as UA's. Also, I tend to use my miles for transatlantic travel, and all transatlantic AA awards I found recently came with hundreds of dollars in junk fees. So AA is not a feasible option for me, either.

bldr1k Dec 21, 2014 10:51 am


Originally Posted by Always Flyin (Post 24031956)
But what United has done to everyone under the Global Services level (and even to GS, just to a lesser extent), is flat-out lie to them ("lifetime" CR1s to Million Milers), and then have the gall to claim it is perfectly permissible to lie; reduce the benefits at each MileagePlus level;
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Yea - this is the core issue. I think people would be a lot more understanding about all of this if they would stop lying about benefits. At this point, nothing United says matters - it is all marketing BS. You have to base your decisions on their actions, which are essentially:

1) Loyalty doesn't matter and United will continue to devalue MP (except GS).
2) Instead of MP being a loyalty program, it is a profit center.
3) We don't care that you spent $3K on an international ticket. We would rather take an extra $400 from someone who spent $1000 and upgrade them, than upgrade a 1K with a GPU.
4) United makes more profit from credit cards then it does from the airline business.

As other airlines do the same thing, it will become much easier for all of us to move around. I have flown a lot on American and Delta this year (which will likely cost me GS on United, but who cares). In the past I would have avoided them because of the 1K benefits. Now I am treated just as well on American or Delta with no status (I will just buy up to stretch seating and priority boarding for $29) as I am on United as a 1K.

Over time this will hurt United. They are moving from a mini-monopoly on their hugely-loyal fliers to a 100% competitive environment. In 5 years there will be a case study about how the airlines pushed away their most profitable customers.

RNE Dec 21, 2014 2:29 pm


Originally Posted by bldr1k (Post 24032607)
Yea - this is the core issue. I think people would be a lot more understanding about all of this if they would stop lying about benefits.

I'm with you there. United's duplicitousness is despicable.


As other airlines do the same thing, it will become much easier for all of us to move around. I have flown a lot on American and Delta this year (which will likely cost me GS on United, but who cares). In the past I would have avoided them because of the 1K benefits. Now I am treated just as well on American or Delta with no status (I will just buy up to stretch seating and priority boarding for $29) as I am on United as a 1K.
I'm not with you there. Flying is about more than one's own experience. My "loyalty" to United can be explained in two letters: MP

In 2015:
  • I'm using MP award miles to fly my wife RT to LAX.
  • I'm using MP award miles to fly my wife RT to SFO.
  • I'm using MP award miles to fly our son RT to MUC.
  • I'm using MP award miles to fly our nephew RT to LAX.
  • I'm using MP award miles to upgrade myself to BF to MUC and back.
  • And the year is still young.
  • I'm awash in hundreds of thousands of MP miles.
  • I have two RPUs available to use in 2015.
  • I'm sitting on tens of thousands of Flexible PQMs.
  • I'm not subject to the 4-segment requirement.
  • I'm not subject to the PQD requirement (short of 1K, which I'd never reach anyway).
  • Chase showers me with award miles and let's me churn cards like a milkmaid does butter.

Yes, it sucks that elite benefits are being disinherited, but I'm often on the same flights as my kin, so that's moot. The devaluation in miles hardly affects the all-UA-metal bookings I tend to make. In short, I fly united because I (still) like MileagePlus.

As I said, my flying is more than about me.

halls120 Dec 21, 2014 3:03 pm


Originally Posted by Always Flyin (Post 24032201)
How many of those upgrades are clearing in advance?

In 2014, I cleared 4 GPUs at time of booking, one at T-72, and one at T-24. That was better than in 2013.

I actually had some CPUs in 2014, which was a nice surprise.


Originally Posted by RNE (Post 24033564)
In short, I fly united because I (still) like MileagePlus.

I still fly UA (although not as much as I used to) because I'm likewise wedded to MP. I'll never reach MM status on One World or Sky Team, so I'm sort of wedded to UA for the next 2 years.

PV_Premier Dec 21, 2014 4:54 pm

i understand how people who are close to MM worry about it, but honestly what's the value anymore. lifetime *G that is about it. i was at 500K lifetime UA when i left, flew a lot more UA this year than anticipated, but i would never continue to endure the same punishment (or worse) for the next 10 years just to get lifetime *G which under the current slash and burn model is better classified as "lifetime if we feel charitable". mileage plus is a decent program, but it's not enough for me to continue to take the abuse.

seeing that i have 990K to go to make MM on AS and DL is disheartening, and i'll never make it, but i don't care either. for 2015 my New Year's resolution is to fly smarter, buying F when i feel i want it, mixing and matching carriers to get where i want to go, and hopefully in the process flying less often.

swm61230 Dec 21, 2014 7:30 pm


Originally Posted by channa (Post 24032000)
Quote:





Originally Posted by Always Flyin


United is an airline for those living in captive hubs, locked into corporate contracts, masochists, or who just don't know any better.






UA is tolerable if you have a voucher or an upgrade instrument to use. Otherwise, it's bottom of the list.

What kind of voucher/upgrade instrument are you using?

I will say that internationally I have had good luck with using gpu's but that is at least half my doing since I am constantly doing a search for r space and calling up to jump the cue. I know in Jan I jumped past 2-3 gs at T-24 plus 4min and the UA computer opened up r space and I reapplied my gpu going to lhr and was immediately uped. I wasn't the only one that did it as the three seats disappeared before checkin officially started.

Some very unhappy gs at the gate for sure.

I can't get them to upgrade an hour flight with a GPU at the time of booking with W fare. I can't wait to check in and get a buy up for some stupid amount of money. Making that one of the many reasons it will be my last flight on UA period.

So domestically I can't get anything to clear that is longer then a 45 min flight and defiantly never a hub to hub! But constantly getting buyups instead of clearing my instrument.

I am going to be very happy gnawing on some way greener pastures.

weirdlyndon Dec 21, 2014 7:51 pm


Originally Posted by PV_Premier (Post 24034034)
i understand how people who are close to MM worry about it, but honestly what's the value anymore. lifetime *G that is about it. i was at 500K lifetime UA when i left, flew a lot more UA this year than anticipated, but i would never continue to endure the same punishment (or worse) for the next 10 years just to get lifetime *G which under the current slash and burn model is better classified as "lifetime if we feel charitable". mileage plus is a decent program, but it's not enough for me to continue to take the abuse.

seeing that i have 990K to go to make MM on AS and DL is disheartening, and i'll never make it, but i don't care either. for 2015 my New Year's resolution is to fly smarter, buying F when i feel i want it, mixing and matching carriers to get where i want to go, and hopefully in the process flying less often.

Thanks for posting this. It actually gave me some clarity, and let me know I wasn't alone. I'm at 630K and was thinking that I should still keep with UA to get to MM status. But what you wrote is absolutely right - by the time I crossed MM status, who knows how devalued it will be by then.

I'm taking my business elsewhere. While I'm a 1K, and have spent a crap load of money with UA over the years, and successfully converted several friends and co-workers to UA loyalists, it's time to take my business to an airline (or airlines, plural) where a mile flown is still a mile earned.

weero Dec 22, 2014 5:53 am


Originally Posted by LaserSailor (Post 24031605)
No airline has disdain for you, nor love for you. It's your dollars they love..

Nope. Maybe the ancillary, incremental, or top-up dollars but definitely not just dollars. Otherwise they would not prefer a TOD to an high level elite on a full fare.

Originally Posted by Always Flyin (Post 24032201)
Ah, yes. Of course. The wonderful upgrade lottery.

How many of those upgrades are clearing in advance?..

In advance ... I wished. W fares clear neither in advance nor at the gate. Heck, I can't even get M and B to clear anymore.

Superguy Dec 22, 2014 8:22 am


Originally Posted by Always Flyin (Post 24031956)
I strongly disagree with the general premise.

Every business is in search of revenue, as is United. Fair enough.

But what United has done to everyone under the Global Services level (and even to GS, just to a lesser extent), is flat-out lie to them ("lifetime" CR1s to Million Milers), and then have the gall to claim it is perfectly permissible to lie; reduce the benefits at each MileagePlus level; make published benefits illusory for the most part (e.g., domestic unlimited upgrades); significantly decrease the redemption value of MileagePlus rewards (particularly F and C awards on Star Alliance partners); mock its elite fliers ("over-entitled elites"), offering upgrades to Kettles at significantly lower prices than for elites since UA believes it already owns the elites; and decrease the flying experience (food and slimline seats).

In my book, that is clearly evidence of disdain for its customers.

I went from a $40-$50K a year flier on United to less than a $1,000 this year. And I am not the only one.

United has my back. Sure. They can watch my back as I fly on the competition.

United is an airline for those living in captive hubs, locked into corporate contracts, masochists, or who just don't know any better.

+1 ^

I'd also add that UA sees its elites as a cost rather than a long term investment. Instead of fostering a continued, long term relationship that is profitable for both parties, UA views keeping such loyalty as a cost. Like all costs, they need to be cut to the absolute minimum.

There is a clear mindset shift between the current UA and PMUA. UA wasn't anything spectacular back in the "good ol' days" and its offerings were mediocre compared to the competition and its *A partners. That said, UA mastered the art of keeping long term loyalty thru perks and taking care of its elites. Because of this, many were willing to put up with UA's shortcomings as it made up for them in other areas. Now, UA just has shortcomings and not only doesn't make up for them, but gives you the finger and tells you to like it.

I wonder where UA would be today if it kept the customer focus PMUA had while working to better the airline like DL and AA are.

weirdlyndon Dec 22, 2014 9:24 am


Originally Posted by Superguy (Post 24036516)
+1 ^

I'd also add that UA sees its elites as a cost rather than a long term investment. Instead of fostering a continued, long term relationship that is profitable for both parties, UA views keeping such loyalty as a cost. Like all costs, they need to be cut to the absolute minimum.

There is a clear mindset shift between the current UA and PMUA. UA wasn't anything spectacular back in the "good ol' days" and its offerings were mediocre compared to the competition and its *A partners. That said, UA mastered the art of keeping long term loyalty thru perks and taking care of its elites. Because of this, many were willing to put up with UA's shortcomings as it made up for them in other areas. Now, UA just has shortcomings and not only doesn't make up for them, but gives you the finger and tells you to like it.

I wonder where UA would be today if it kept the customer focus PMUA had while working to better the airline like DL and AA are.

This! ^

UA would actually be a formidable airline if they kept a lot of the customer service tools in place for elites that PMUA had.

Just last month I misconnected in IAH - our entire flight was told to go to the customer service desk for hotel and meal vouchers since we arrived so late. As a 1K in the Premier Access line, I got a hotel voucher for the Red Roof Inn with a value of $29 on the voucher. A no-status girl standing next to me got the Marriott IAH (we spoke afterwords and commiserated.) I mean, c'mon!

LarkSFO Dec 22, 2014 11:55 am


Originally Posted by PV_Premier (Post 24034034)
for 2015 my New Year's resolution is to fly smarter, buying F when i feel i want it, mixing and matching carriers to get where i want to go, and hopefully in the process flying less often.

This should be everyone's New Years resolution, every year.

gengar Dec 22, 2014 12:02 pm


Originally Posted by weirdlyndon (Post 24034499)
Thanks for posting this. It actually gave me some clarity, and let me know I wasn't alone. I'm at 630K and was thinking that I should still keep with UA to get to MM status. But what you wrote is absolutely right - by the time I crossed MM status, who knows how devalued it will be by then.

Not just "by then", but what about after, too? UA has made it clear they will renege on promises, and remember that UA can devalue lifetime status both directly and indirectly. For example, 1MM might always grant Gold status, but UA can just devalue Gold. A lot of people bring up the broken promise of RPUs for 1MM, but I think a far bigger impact for 1MM's was Gold/1P being reduced from 100% RDM bonus down to 50%.

I'm a lot closer to 1MM than you are and it didn't even play a factor in my decision to move to OALs. What's the point of lifetime status on an airline I don't even want to fly, anyway? Lifetime *G is all that's left (assuming UA doesn't get rid of that, directly or indirectly) and that's not worth flying UA for.

Hartmann Dec 22, 2014 12:19 pm

I am still sorting out what to do this coming year. My January/February will be relatively travel light but I do have a big trip to Europe in January and possibly another to Asia in February. I have a ton of GPUs that were earned in 2014 and I was planning on using those for these trips.

Other than that, some folks have suggested a match to AS MVPG75K but the limited partner selection and my lack of west coast-centric travel makes me leery of that strategy.

A few people have suggested matching to AA and using AS when I need to but I don't know if that's a smart move since everything out of PDX would require a DFW or ORD connection on AA metal.

aisleorwindow Dec 22, 2014 1:34 pm


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 24037760)
I am still sorting out what to do this coming year. My January/February will be relatively travel light but I do have a big trip to Europe in January and possibly another to Asia in February. I have a ton of GPUs that were earned in 2014 and I was planning on using those for these trips.

Other than that, some folks have suggested a match to AS MVPG75K but the limited partner selection and my lack of west coast-centric travel makes me leery of that strategy.

A few people have suggested matching to AA and using AS when I need to but I don't know if that's a smart move since everything out of PDX would require a DFW or ORD connection on AA metal.

What are your destinations?
Don't forget that PHX, CLT and PHL are all options on the new AA.


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