Oct 30, 2013, 3:36 pm
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
UA Insider's reply in posts 247 and 254 of this thread:
Hi everyone,
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
UA Blocking Expert Flyer and KVS Access to R and Elite Award Searches.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:38 pm
#226
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
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It's common sense. There are plenty of people here who love their hyperbole and are convinced that UA is either out to get them or desperate to turn away all their customers through the use of carefully calculated cuts. They take it very personally. As with most things, the reality is usually a lot more boring than that.
UA has clearly no issue with making this data available - it's there in its Expert mode for anyone who wants it, but limited to individual access. EF collects $10 / month from people who want automated searches and it seems very likely that UA wants to keep some of that for themselves (or maybe more than they were getting previously - I'm not aware of the details of the arrangement that's in place today)
UA has clearly no issue with making this data available - it's there in its Expert mode for anyone who wants it, but limited to individual access. EF collects $10 / month from people who want automated searches and it seems very likely that UA wants to keep some of that for themselves (or maybe more than they were getting previously - I'm not aware of the details of the arrangement that's in place today)
Oct 30, 2013, 2:43 pm
#227
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
No, it's ridiculous. UA could block EF entirely if it just wanted more money. Instead, it's blocking access only to specific data sets relating to upgrades and elite award availability. I doubt it's coincidental that these are two areas in which UA has been heavily criticized on this forum. Indeed, UA Insider has previously acknowledged UA's awareness that its IT flaws are allowing queue jumping. It's just silly to deny that these are the reasons for the limited cut-off of EF's access.
Not disagreeing that this is bad for customers (it will affect me personally) but this most likely isn't a selective removal of data - it sounds more like a suspension / removal of the complete feed of data EF gets from UA.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:44 pm
#228
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: EWR
Programs: UA Gold, UA MM, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,329
It's common sense. There are plenty of people here who love their hyperbole and are convinced that UA is either out to get them or desperate to turn away all their customers through the use of carefully calculated cuts. They take it very personally. As with most things, the reality is usually a lot more boring than that.
UA has clearly no issue with making this data available - it's there in its Expert mode for anyone who wants it, but limited to individual access. EF collects $10 / month from people who want automated searches and it seems very likely that UA wants to keep some of that for themselves (or maybe more than they were getting previously - I'm not aware of the details of the arrangement that's in place today)
UA has clearly no issue with making this data available - it's there in its Expert mode for anyone who wants it, but limited to individual access. EF collects $10 / month from people who want automated searches and it seems very likely that UA wants to keep some of that for themselves (or maybe more than they were getting previously - I'm not aware of the details of the arrangement that's in place today)
As far as UA clearly making the information available, thats not entirely clear at this point but as I've stated a few times in this thread, I will be shocked if they remove that functionality it sucks (as limited as it is) but it is at least something.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:45 pm
#229
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
I was a glass half full guy too before all the "changes I will like" campaign. Ive become a glass half empty guy until proven otherwise. I would like to think and hope you are correct but I'm not nearly as confident as you are.
As far as UA clearly making the information available, thats not entirely clear at this point but as I've stated a few times in this thread, I will be shocked if they remove that functionality it sucks (as limited as it is) but it is at least something.
As far as UA clearly making the information available, thats not entirely clear at this point but as I've stated a few times in this thread, I will be shocked if they remove that functionality it sucks (as limited as it is) but it is at least something.
The conspiracy theories that abound here are hilarious. But being highly sceptical of them and assuming this is a mundane money-related issue doesn't make me an optimist
Oct 30, 2013, 2:47 pm
#230
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: LAX
Posts: 301
FWIW, Martin Hand (VP Customer Experience) was a large part of the SFO Mini-DO a few weekends ago and hosted a Q&A session in which he was asked if Expert Mode was going away anytime soon - to which he solidly answered no. I say FWIW because I don't know how close he is to that particular realm of decision making, but I figure it's worth mentioning.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:48 pm
#231
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lahaina, HI & Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,403
Add me to the growing list of people who disagree with your thesis. UA could simply resolve their concern that another is inappropriately profiting from "their" information by charging a separate fee to each customer who wants access to the data or they could provide the information for free and take a dent out of EF's revenue stream.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:50 pm
#232
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CLE
Programs: UA 1K MM, DL Plat
Posts: 982
The letter pretty clearly indicates that UA cut EF off at the legs on this one. Not that it's part of business negotiations.
I could be completely wrong, but EF has provided great service and acted with nothing but integrity in the ~2 years or so that I've been a subscriber. UA, on the other hand, can barely be trusted not to sleep with your wife and poison your lawn, for all of the integrity they've shown over the same period of time.
Anyhow, I have a hard time believing that this is any kind of legitimate business dispute, over it just being UA yet again trying to keep customers in the dark.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:51 pm
#233
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
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Posts: 56,480
Further, UA could certainly ban EF from scraping its site for data, and require that EF obtain the *A and revenue data elsewhere. It hasn't done that.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:52 pm
#234
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Platinum, Hertz Gold 1 Presidence Circle
Posts: 662
Excellent, on-point reply. FWIW, Expertflyer.com (EF) also has several other useful features less relevant to the issue at hand, and can be used for numerous airlines. It's a paid service that costs something like $10/month or $100/year, with I believe a free five-day trial period. Well worth the investment for many folks, in terms of saving time and bagging upgrades and awards.
Oct 30, 2013, 2:57 pm
#235
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
UA's seat map data is available through several sources outside of UA. Try looking up a UA flight on Expedia. It's made available through the GDS.
Oct 30, 2013, 3:03 pm
#236
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 2,842
No, they didn't. The last time around they moved "Expert Mode" behind the login process with a span of a few weeks during the migration where it wasn't available. And at that time it disappeared from EF, too.
I highly doubt that the data is being pulled from view on the UA website, just from the 3rd party.
You could also just check the website, saving yourself a lot of time and energy versus calling in.
I highly doubt that the data is being pulled from view on the UA website, just from the 3rd party.
You could also just check the website, saving yourself a lot of time and energy versus calling in.
Oct 30, 2013, 3:05 pm
#237
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: UA IK, Hyatt Plat, Avis PP
Posts: 225
This sucks. UA already took away expert mode once, what's to say they won't do it again. I think this is purely a way to hide their broken system (whether intentionally broken is up for debate) and limit the use of GPU's so they can sell more seats. EF will be missed.
Has UA Insider chimed in yet? Sounds like when things go bad they disappear. Thanks for "another change we'll like" SMI. Between the bad food, downgraded benefits, PQD, and so on it seems you've waged a war on HVF elites.
Has UA Insider chimed in yet? Sounds like when things go bad they disappear. Thanks for "another change we'll like" SMI. Between the bad food, downgraded benefits, PQD, and so on it seems you've waged a war on HVF elites.
Oct 30, 2013, 3:11 pm
#238
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ROC/NYC/MSP/LAX/HKG/SIN
Posts: 3,214
To add to the already bad news about no R in EF. I use EF for R, and X/XN as well, which is wonderful feature to look for the award space in UA. If you look at the big picture, this move is actually worse than DL.
Oct 30, 2013, 3:12 pm
#239
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Oct 30, 2013, 3:15 pm
#240
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,146
I read it as just elite award inventory (e.g. XN and IN buckets--only XN is even remotely used anymore since UA basically flat-out lied about providing additional C award space to elites... find me a documented case of IN > I in the past 16 months, for example).