Oct 30, 2013, 3:36 pm
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
UA Insider's reply in posts 247 and 254 of this thread:
Hi everyone,
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
UA Blocking Expert Flyer and KVS Access to R and Elite Award Searches.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:09 am
#136
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Can't even imagine how that will tie up the already busy reservation desks.
Another cost saving move ...
And I doubt, they will fumble this one again.
Unless, DL does not show it either
another strategic move to gain back the HVF ....
Oct 30, 2013, 10:11 am
#137
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: CMH
Programs: UA 1K, 1MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 745
Oct 30, 2013, 10:15 am
#138
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SLC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 493
I'm all for fixing the R-queue-jumping at T-24 problem, but this is a lame non-solution. Even if they remove R from expert mode one could still presumably do an award UG search, or, based on my experience, just assume that if there is premium cabin availability w/in 24 hrs that it has been dumped in R. The real fix would require stopping the release of R at T-24 and/or consistent behavior by the phone agents in declining to force these or apply new instruments w/in 24 hrs.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:15 am
#139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Is KVS an alternative to show R, IN, XN?
On certain carriers I believe they at least can display "yes" or "no", without showing the actual numbers (e.g. R5, IN2, XN9 etc.(
On certain carriers I believe they at least can display "yes" or "no", without showing the actual numbers (e.g. R5, IN2, XN9 etc.(
Oct 30, 2013, 10:23 am
#140
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,693
Opps, It looks like I picked the wrong month and year to get my expertflyer subscription.
Does this change really mean that UAL is going to get rid of R availability even in Expertmode? I have only trip in the next year that I really care about R availability but if that one vacation causes me to sit in the back of the bus with all my flying this year, I will be deeply disappointed.
Does this change really mean that UAL is going to get rid of R availability even in Expertmode? I have only trip in the next year that I really care about R availability but if that one vacation causes me to sit in the back of the bus with all my flying this year, I will be deeply disappointed.
People sure take this personally. Its just business. We are all chasing the desire to sit in FC without paying full nut, and the airlines are trying to sell a balance of full nuts and half-nuts for miles/cash/GPUS mix.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:31 am
#141
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: AA Plat, UA 1K>Plat>moving to Silver
Posts: 2,090
I'm still not convinced taking the info off of EF will increase UA's revenue. For example, in my case I sometimes buy business class rather than use miles - either at booking or later with a cash upgrade. I do this usually on international flights when it is roughly no more than 2-3 times economy. One of the things I set R class alerts for is that, if I check the cash upgrade cost at the same time, I would often find that it to have dropped around the same time. I might then buy with cash then rather use miles if the price was right (saving miles for future trips, usually). And I'm not talking about TODs - I am willing to pay $2k on top of a $1k economy ticket, just not $6k.
Maybe I will be able to check every day and still do that at the UA website. But when busy or traveling, that is not likely to happen. They might wind up giving it to an elite for free instead. Not bad for the elite, but does it maximize revenue?
So that leaves me making a decision on what international carrier and flight to take based on upgrade likelihood or outright business cost at the time of booking. The quality of a lot of other international carriers being better, the more I have to discount the prospect of getting upgraded, where the cost is equal and there are no other reasons to favor UA, the more UA is not going to be the one selected.
Maybe I will be able to check every day and still do that at the UA website. But when busy or traveling, that is not likely to happen. They might wind up giving it to an elite for free instead. Not bad for the elite, but does it maximize revenue?
So that leaves me making a decision on what international carrier and flight to take based on upgrade likelihood or outright business cost at the time of booking. The quality of a lot of other international carriers being better, the more I have to discount the prospect of getting upgraded, where the cost is equal and there are no other reasons to favor UA, the more UA is not going to be the one selected.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:31 am
#142
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
I set my EF to do not renew. Was set to renew in a couple days. I will wait to see how this plays out. I wonder how long until fare information is pulled.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:32 am
#143
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NCL
Programs: UA 1MM/*G. DL Gold for one more year.
Posts: 5,305
Besides yet another anti-customer copycat move off Delta from UA (they can't think of *anything* on their own??), EF is silent in this thread after claiming they can't comment on the Delta thread.
My assumption is they are OK losing a substantial number of subscribers and downsizing their business vs escalating this or at least coming clean to the user community about what is really going on with these carriers and their options or lack thereof to counter.
So, EF - here is your chance - time to come clean and let everyone know what's going on here, or don't be surprised when you see a substantial loss of revenue - do you want to fight for it or not??
My assumption is they are OK losing a substantial number of subscribers and downsizing their business vs escalating this or at least coming clean to the user community about what is really going on with these carriers and their options or lack thereof to counter.
So, EF - here is your chance - time to come clean and let everyone know what's going on here, or don't be surprised when you see a substantial loss of revenue - do you want to fight for it or not??
Oct 30, 2013, 10:37 am
#144
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
In theory, if it's more difficult to find the upgrade inventory before you purchase, that lack of transparency might convince a few customers to buy the premium seat in the first place. I'm skeptical that will make any appreciable difference to UA's revenue picture.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:40 am
#145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,930
Terrible, customer-unfriendly move by United. 
Aaron--why? why? why?
Aaron--why? why? why?
Oct 30, 2013, 10:46 am
#146
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,648
the writing is on the wall, R will be gone from Expert Mode very soon. wouldn't be surprised to see some change like YBM purchase means instant-UP with certificate internationally, W and above means instant waitlist, W requirement for RPUs domestically, just use your imagination as to how poorly this could play out when the dust settles.
cash is king and UA has made that abundantly clear one step at a time. the certs by this time next year will not be worth the paper they are not printed on.
cash is king and UA has made that abundantly clear one step at a time. the certs by this time next year will not be worth the paper they are not printed on.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:47 am
#147
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,419
Suppose it is the reason. Then fix the system rather than cut off information. Heck, they could use the apparently unused RN fare class for TODs, with RN>R most of the time.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:51 am
#148
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,476
I'm all for fixing the R-queue-jumping at T-24 problem, but this is a lame non-solution. Even if they remove R from expert mode one could still presumably do an award UG search, or, based on my experience, just assume that if there is premium cabin availability w/in 24 hrs that it has been dumped in R. The real fix would require stopping the release of R at T-24 and/or consistent behavior by the phone agents in declining to force these or apply new instruments w/in 24 hrs.
Oct 30, 2013, 10:53 am
#149
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Carmel Valley(was Hawaii)
Programs: United 1K 2.7 MM
Posts: 1,174
Just got this e-mail as well and extremely disappointed. UA - who I sincerely hope is reading this! - should understand that my alternative to EF will be to simply call the 1K desk and spend an hour waiting while the agent performs the exact search for me.
I regularly plan my trips around R availability on international flights, up to and including purchasing higher fare classes or more expensive dates. Seems like this is a change that's just going to cost both UA and us more time and effort to achieve the same result in the end.
I regularly plan my trips around R availability on international flights, up to and including purchasing higher fare classes or more expensive dates. Seems like this is a change that's just going to cost both UA and us more time and effort to achieve the same result in the end.
This is NOT "Friendly"
Oct 30, 2013, 10:54 am
#150
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,890
I beg to differ, but whatever.
Here's an e-mail I got from 1K Voice nearly 2 weeks after they took down expert mode:
UA belatedly claimed that they had the "intention" to replace it with some undefined "enhancement." Outcry from customers persuaded them to return a "comparable" feature.
Here's an e-mail I got from 1K Voice nearly 2 weeks after they took down expert mode:
UA belatedly claimed that they had the "intention" to replace it with some undefined "enhancement." Outcry from customers persuaded them to return a "comparable" feature.