Jun 18, 2013, 7:18 am
Last edit by: iluv2fly
Please read these sources before posting in this thread:If you have calculated the PQDs for a trip at less than 80% of the total cost, you are very likely doing something wrong. Have you made sure to include the International Surcharge (YQ)? Have you read all of the materials linked above, and the frequently made points listed below?
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.FMP (Frequently Made Points)
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):Related Threads
Moderator's Note:- First post from UA Insider (post 1)
- http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
- Additional answers from UA Insider (post 1387)
- more information about questions posed in this thread published to mileageplusupdates.com, per UA Insider
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.
- Will there be a calculator that shows PQD, and will that calculator be accurate?
- What exactly will count toward PQD?
United states:
Base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges
Flights flown by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance® or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases
will count towards PQD.
Thus:
- The amount of co-pay when using miles to upgrade..
- The cost of PQMs/RDMs purchased when using the premier / award accelerator..
- The value of ETCs (or is it considered a discount from the fare?). (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include) -Note: the Mileage plus site indicates ETC's count towards PQD (12/16/13 imgonnafly)
- The face value e-certs and travel vouchers.. (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include)
- The cost of a paid upgrade..
- An extra seat purchase (such as for a customer of size or a musical instrument); it does not presently count toward PQM.
- Change fees.
- How will PQD be determined for UA metal segments without 016 stock ticket?
- What happens if I depart in December and return in January?
Just like PQM, PQD for the applicable part of fare for the segment is credited based on the departure date (year) of the segment flown. Segment fares are calculated using standard rules of the past. For the case cited there would be PQD credited in DEC 2013 (no value) and PQD applied to 2014 applicable to 2014 and 2015 status renewal. - How will UA evaluate the address issue for the PQD exemption?
- It is not clear how the timing of achieving the minimum PQD requirement will impact earning RPUs and GPUs. Examples:
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- Do only 1Ks/GSs earn additional RPUs by flying beyond the 100k mark?
- If a 1K crosses the 100,000 PQM mark in January 201x, the $10,000 PQD mark on December 31 201x, and ends up flying a total of 200,000 PQMs for the year 201x, how many RPUs / GPUs will be earned?
- Will Platinums earn 2 RPUs when crossing the 75k mark but none at incremental levels thereafter (e.g. a Plat who flies 100k EQMs, but does not meet the 1K spend, would *not* earn two more RPUs)?
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- How does IRROPs affect earning of PQDs?
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):
- You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
- It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "leisure 1Ks" and people on the edge of categories.
- Presidential Plus card members (exempted from Silver/Gold/Plat PQD requirements) are most likely exempted because the FlexPQM program would complicate matters.
- Manufacturing $25,000 spend might not actually be so hard. There's a whole forum on it.
- The exceptions don't really make sense where there is a revenue-sharing joint venture in place, such as with LH on TATL routes.
- Leaving UA for AA over objections to dollar-based status may be futile because all the majors will likely go to this model with the possible exception of the AS program which allows you to bank your DL and AA miles into one account (DL has already).
- UA is tracking spend on UA metal now.
- YQ, also known as the "international surcharge," is a carrier-imposed surcharge and is included in PQD.
2014 version of this thread can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1536552-mileageplus-premier-qualifying-dollar-pqd-requirement-discussion-thread-2014-a-15.html
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
MileagePlus Premier Qualifying Dollar (PQD) Requirement Discussion [ARCHIVE]
Jun 18, 2013, 12:19 pm
#451
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
Do change fees/penalties count? <they seem to fall under the carrier imposed surcharge/fee language>
It feels a lot like the fare-code restriction on mileage earning with other carriers. I suppose this model allows for some of the ancillary charges to count considering this is the way the airline charges for things.
I have two problems with this. 1) If UA had their operational crap together I could evaluate whether this had enough value for me going forward and 2) There's no inflation/deflation adjustment present here. If fuel cost went up/down by X%, this will not end up serving the purposes (which I presume is to weed out the ranks a bit at all elite tiers and encourage more profitable spend by these elite ranks).
I'm over the CPM threshold, but I don't really care anymore due to MM. But this might mean that I'll need 2MM in order to keep Gold presuming the devaluation spiral continues.
It feels a lot like the fare-code restriction on mileage earning with other carriers. I suppose this model allows for some of the ancillary charges to count considering this is the way the airline charges for things.
I have two problems with this. 1) If UA had their operational crap together I could evaluate whether this had enough value for me going forward and 2) There's no inflation/deflation adjustment present here. If fuel cost went up/down by X%, this will not end up serving the purposes (which I presume is to weed out the ranks a bit at all elite tiers and encourage more profitable spend by these elite ranks).
I'm over the CPM threshold, but I don't really care anymore due to MM. But this might mean that I'll need 2MM in order to keep Gold presuming the devaluation spiral continues.
Jun 18, 2013, 12:20 pm
#452
Join Date: May 2008
Location: WAS
Programs: AA Ex Plt
Posts: 1,630
Because one can still fly 75K miles relatively inexpensively and can manufacture $25K CC spend for a ~$200 (Review HERE)
I think it's pretty easy. I'll make 1K for the first time this year (will probably end up with somewhere between 105-115k PQMs) and don't think I'm going to come that close to the $10,000 threshold.
In fact, Platinum is the level that seems to get screwed here, since it is the tier whose ranks will swell the most and for whom upgrade chances will be most diluted. I'd hate to have been 1K for the past 7 or 8 years spending $9,000 per year, only to wake up on 1/1/15 and be Platinum.
Yes, this is another major issue, considering that, in many cases, 50% or more of the cost of an international ticket is taxes and fees that United can probably claim are not PQD eligible.
In fact, Platinum is the level that seems to get screwed here, since it is the tier whose ranks will swell the most and for whom upgrade chances will be most diluted. I'd hate to have been 1K for the past 7 or 8 years spending $9,000 per year, only to wake up on 1/1/15 and be Platinum.
Yes, this is another major issue, considering that, in many cases, 50% or more of the cost of an international ticket is taxes and fees that United can probably claim are not PQD eligible.
Jun 18, 2013, 12:21 pm
#453
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Right now, IMO, the main booking drivers for domestic high yield customers are [assuming everything else is equal including operational reliability which UA fails on many counts]:
1. Contracts
2. Schedule [non-stop vs. connecting]
3. Loyalty Programs
If the loyalty program becomes worthless [just like with the volatility ETFs] like you imply in the long run, it will impact #1 and #3, leaving only schedule as the main driver. Which means, who cares what airline I am flying on, I want to fly LAX-JFK nonstop at 9am, who has that?
Jun 18, 2013, 12:21 pm
#454
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Programs: UA GS, AS MVP 100K, DL Diamond, Marriot Lifetime Titanium, AmEx Centurion
Posts: 5,525
Not at all. As mentioned before, I'm at 140,000 PQM this year so far with under $6000 in PQD by my calculation.....so I'd be gold? Seriously?
Jun 18, 2013, 12:22 pm
#455
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: DL; AA; UA; CO; LHLX; NZ; QR; EK; BA
Posts: 7,408
How to calculate PQDs (if they follow DL's model)
Delta has already been giving the MQD calculation a trial run thanks to the SPG Crossover Rewards program. As an SPG member, I am given points for my DL spend, so I've been able to check the $points awarded from DL against my DL ticket prices.
General rule of thumb:
Domestic US ticket: 89-90% of total ticket price paid (this aligns pretty much to the Base Fare line only and excludes almost all of the Taxes/Carrier-Imposed Surcharges line)
International ticket: 95-97% of total ticket price paid (Base Fare + the YQ or YR carrier-imposed surcharges). Most of the tax items like US or AY or CH (for Switzerland) or BE (Belgium) or FR (French tax) don't count obviously.
General rule of thumb:
Domestic US ticket: 89-90% of total ticket price paid (this aligns pretty much to the Base Fare line only and excludes almost all of the Taxes/Carrier-Imposed Surcharges line)
International ticket: 95-97% of total ticket price paid (Base Fare + the YQ or YR carrier-imposed surcharges). Most of the tax items like US or AY or CH (for Switzerland) or BE (Belgium) or FR (French tax) don't count obviously.
Jun 18, 2013, 12:22 pm
#456
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Gold, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 66
As a $5,000 UA 1K Mileage Runner, this is of course bad news for me. Next year I'll probably fly at least 75k to get Plat, and get EQD waived since I spend more than $25k on my Chase United Club card.
After that...I can either quit the MR game, or see if I'm crazy enough to DOUBLE my runs to fly 200k each year for $10k. I would get to 1MM faster but more cost and time up front.
-Tom9984
After that...I can either quit the MR game, or see if I'm crazy enough to DOUBLE my runs to fly 200k each year for $10k. I would get to 1MM faster but more cost and time up front.
-Tom9984
Jun 18, 2013, 12:23 pm
#457
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Jun 18, 2013, 12:24 pm
#458
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: UA, Bonvoy, Amex Plat
Posts: 1,582
Because one can still fly 75K miles relatively inexpensively and can manufacture $25K CC spend for a ~$200 (Review HERE)
Originally Posted by ironmanjt
Not at all. As mentioned before, I'm at 140,000 PQM this year so far with under $6000 in PQD by my calculation.....so I'd be gold? Seriously?
Unfortunately, I think you are the exception rather than the rule.
Jun 18, 2013, 12:25 pm
#459
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: US
Programs: AA/UA/DL
Posts: 2,773
I really think United should pay bonus to Richard Anderson and not SMI/J.
United doesn't need a CEO and they just need to copay...no...copy and paste
what Delta is doing.
Delta is able to do this with their above average service while United.....
United doesn't need a CEO and they just need to copay...no...copy and paste
what Delta is doing.
Delta is able to do this with their above average service while United.....
Jun 18, 2013, 12:26 pm
#460
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Programs: UA GS, AS MVP 100K, DL Diamond, Marriot Lifetime Titanium, AmEx Centurion
Posts: 5,525
Or buy lots more Z/P mileage runs at just over 10c/PQM...which would likely be my strategy....
Jun 18, 2013, 12:27 pm
#461
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
At a lot less than I paid for it. Flying United is stressful and irritating, and I don't like doing business with a company that views me with automatic antagonism.
There is only one good thing to say about this: For once, UA is stepping up to the plate and honestly giving us the bad news in advance. For the last two years, they've lied to us about nearly everything... I stand on record saying the biggest issue with this program is the lies and cheating and will go on as they cheat us out of dollars saying they don't qualify.
Game over.
Jun 18, 2013, 12:27 pm
#462
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Programs: UA GS, AS MVP 100K, DL Diamond, Marriot Lifetime Titanium, AmEx Centurion
Posts: 5,525
Jun 18, 2013, 12:27 pm
#463
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: HNL
Programs: United Gold
Posts: 1,581
As a $5,000 UA 1K Mileage Runner, this is of course bad news for me. Next year I'll probably fly at least 75k to get Plat, and get EQD waived since I spend more than $25k on my Chase United Club card.
After that...I can either quit the MR game, or see if I'm crazy enough to DOUBLE my runs to fly 200k each year for $10k. I would get to 1MM faster but more cost and time up front.
-Tom9984
After that...I can either quit the MR game, or see if I'm crazy enough to DOUBLE my runs to fly 200k each year for $10k. I would get to 1MM faster but more cost and time up front.
-Tom9984
The 200k/year for $10k may actually be a good idea
Jun 18, 2013, 12:28 pm
#464
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Actually, it will be more like 220K for $11K.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jun 18, 2013 at 2:00 pm Reason: merge
Jun 18, 2013, 12:30 pm
#465
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: UA, Bonvoy, Amex Plat
Posts: 1,582
That alone should be reason enough to step back from the blackjack table right now. People are going to end up in endless fights with MP about what constitutes a legit PQD and what suddenly doesn't under new, secretly rewritten rules. It's going to be tiresome, frustrating and ultimately stupid as the prize you're jumping through all these hoops for is a small ramekin of cashew fragments hurled at your head by a bitter dragon-matron who hates you on sight.
Game over.