Changes to UA's IAD-HNL Service (Schedule, Equipment, etc.)?
#16
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
So essentially, CO took over and thought they knew more about what routes would work from UA hubs than UA knew themselves.....
And now they retreat.
Yes we've been told on these forums, repeatedly, about how much better CO is analyzing the profitability of a route, rightsizing equipment, and all that jazz.
Wonder how that 737 on SIN-HKG is working out....
And now they retreat.
Yes we've been told on these forums, repeatedly, about how much better CO is analyzing the profitability of a route, rightsizing equipment, and all that jazz.
Wonder how that 737 on SIN-HKG is working out....
Any carrier has to do what will increase its bottom line and not what will be a better flight for its Elites
#17
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: Star Alliance Gold/UA Mileage Plus Premier 1K
Posts: 257
I've been on this flight twice and it's been packed and I have another one coming up in April that also looks very full. Late August until the week before Christmas is a very slow travel season for Hawaii in general so it makes sense to cut back the flights during this period. However, the non-stops re-appear in late December so it seems they are not discontinued, only "seasonally-adjusted."
BTW-as someone from the DC area, the Caribbean is NOT a first choice "warm" destination for most residents.
BTW-as someone from the DC area, the Caribbean is NOT a first choice "warm" destination for most residents.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Mar 19, 2013 at 3:36 pm Reason: merge
#18
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ORD-LAS
Programs: UA MM 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 4,419
Well that 738 is back to a 747 , and when I was on it it was Empty. So as much as we like the 747 over the 738, unless they are selling tkts on that route CO was probably correct in using the 738, since if most folks are simply as I did using it as a way to get a HKG & SIN stops onto 1 tkt for the price of a HKG tkt , it doesnt make any sense to me
Any carrier has to do what will increase its bottom line and not what will be a better flight for its Elites
Any carrier has to do what will increase its bottom line and not what will be a better flight for its Elites
#19
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,393
#20
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
The problem is we dont have a way to know how many HKG-SIN-HKG tkts they were selling
OT but CO for yrs Refused to put E+ onto their planes saying it was throwing $$ out the window.Once they were able to look at UAs books they learnt very fast how Wrong they were.
Point is I dont blame whoever made the decission to use the 738.They knew the #s and felt it ws the correct decission , OK in the end it seems it wasnt, but none of us were against the 738 since it was better profit wise we just didnt want a narrow-body for that length of a flight. Do you know anyone that prefers an RJ over a mainliner I dont. Yet many routes have been downgraded to an RJ.
Really OT but both LH and BA Downgraded their widebodys to Only A-320 series to TLV. Everyone yelled they wont fly BA or LH any longer yet it seems they are still filling their planes on that route. My pt is ALL carriers are trying to utilize their fleet to the max that they can. Could be BA/LH felt they would maintain their full fare passengers and all theyd lose would be the lesiure traveler who really didnt trickle much to the bottom line anyway. Wouldnt surprise me if CO was thinking along those same lines, Except it seems it didnt pan out as they had hoped it would.
Has CO lost its LAX/SFO - HI biz, after all its now mainly 738,753 seems no they havent at least from the times I flew it or was looking to fly to HI.Which probably will end up giving them more to their bottom line. CO wont be right all the time and they know that, so what should they do listen to us who Only want planes with F & C no Y and all bed-seats at the price of a G fare, or to play with the planes and routes and try to squeeze what they can out of each route
As an Elite passenger I want widebodys with bed-seats for the price of a G fare or a W and being able to confirm an UP then and there. If I was running UA Id want the opposite and not fill up my Premium cabins with ElCheapo tkt passengers and thusly not beable maybe to sell that seat to someone for alot more $$$. I dont know of any shareholder that will say Jeff should go back to PMUAs ways of leaving the barn door open and giving everything away for $0 or close to that
#21
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EAU
Programs: UA 1K, CO Plat, NW Plat, Marriott Premiere Plat, SPG Plat, Priority Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,712
Hawaii is in the US and the Caribbean isn't. That gets you a much better tax treatment on "business" trips (cough conferences cough vacations) to Hawaii.
#23
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,393
#24
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: United
Posts: 256
In all fairness I think many folks want to visit different warm weather vacation spots in different years, ranging from Hawaii to Mexico to the Caribbean. That's certainly true of my friends in D.C., granted they go to Hawaii much more rarely than to the Caribbean because of distance and budget.
BTW, Hawaii tourism and visitor counts have recovered back to pre-crisis record levels, and apparently people from both coasts do want to go to Hawaii. Here are the visitor counts from West Coast and East Coast and elsewhere:
CATEGORY AND MMA Dec 2012 Dec 2011 % change YTD 2012 YTD 2011 % change
VISITOR ARRIVALS 733,709 690,090 6.3 7,998,815 7,299,048 9.6
Total by air 724,163 670,116 8.1 7,837,194 7,174,397 9.2
U.S. West 289,301 265,853 8.8 3,194,975 2,994,731 6.7
U.S. East 149,403 144,187 3.6 1,699,124 1,642,279 3.5
Japan 120,116 114,001 5.4 1,452,563 1,241,805 17.0
Canada 66,897 65,445 2.2 498,241 477,564 4.3
All Others 98,446 80,630 22.1 992,291 818,018 21.3
Visitor arrivals by cruise ships 9,546 19,974 -52.2 161,621 124,651 29.7
#25
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
Using the code, /code tags improves the readability of tables
Code:
CATEGORY AND MMA Dec 2012 Dec 2011 % change YTD 2012 YTD 2011 % change VISITOR ARRIVALS 733,709 690,090 6.3 7,998,815 7,299,048 9.6 Total by air 724,163 670,116 8.1 7,837,194 7,174,397 9.2 U.S. West 289,301 265,853 8.8 3,194,975 2,994,731 6.7 U.S. East 149,403 144,187 3.6 1,699,124 1,642,279 3.5 Japan 120,116 114,001 5.4 1,452,563 1,241,805 17.0 Canada 66,897 65,445 2.2 498,241 477,564 4.3 All Others 98,446 80,630 22.1 992,291 818,018 21.3 Visitor arrivals by cruise ships 9,546 19,974 -52.2 161,621 124,651 29.7
#26
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,169
EWR-HNL probably gets much more local passengers from the NYC market and IAD would depend more on those connecting and one issue is many have to fly a backwards or non direct routing to take this flight. ORD and IAH also DEN, LAX, and SFO are better alternatives.
#27
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,616
people in DC are smarter.
Yep, that's why there are so many flights every winter from the DC area to the Caribbean.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
I've lived in the DC area for 21 years now. We've been to Hawaii twice in those 21 years. We've been to the Caribbean 7 times.
Don't get me wrong, we love Hawaii. But you don't decide to pop out to Hawaii for a four day weekend. You do in the Caribbean.
Interesting how you so emphatically assume that these are mutually exclusive. Sorry, couldn't resist.
In all fairness I think many folks want to visit different warm weather vacation spots in different years, ranging from Hawaii to Mexico to the Caribbean. That's certainly true of my friends in D.C., granted they go to Hawaii much more rarely than to the Caribbean because of distance and budget.
In all fairness I think many folks want to visit different warm weather vacation spots in different years, ranging from Hawaii to Mexico to the Caribbean. That's certainly true of my friends in D.C., granted they go to Hawaii much more rarely than to the Caribbean because of distance and budget.
I've lived in the DC area for 21 years now. We've been to Hawaii twice in those 21 years. We've been to the Caribbean 7 times.
Don't get me wrong, we love Hawaii. But you don't decide to pop out to Hawaii for a four day weekend. You do in the Caribbean.
Last edited by halls120; Mar 19, 2013 at 6:13 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Well that 738 is back to a 747 , and when I was on it it was Empty. So as much as we like the 747 over the 738, unless they are selling tkts on that route CO was probably correct in using the 738, since if most folks are simply as I did using it as a way to get a HKG & SIN stops onto 1 tkt for the price of a HKG tkt , it doesnt make any sense to me
Any carrier has to do what will increase its bottom line and not what will be a better flight for its Elites
Any carrier has to do what will increase its bottom line and not what will be a better flight for its Elites
Those folks who are paying 6-12K for their tickets suddenly found themselves ending up on a CO 738, and amazingly did not ever want to fly UA again.
revenue just dropped off the map, and not just on the HKG-SIN, but more importantly on the USA-HKG routes.
Decision was reversed, but the damage was done. Many of those folks are now flying on SQ or CX.
Full of HKG-SIN-HKG passengers who purchased that tkt, or add ons like I was. By adding SIN onto my HKG tkt it was all of $40 more! So if CO checked and saw basically all they were doing is ferrying those who were flying US-HKG onto SIN then they were correct for using the 738
The problem is we dont have a way to know how many HKG-SIN-HKG tkts they were selling
OT but CO for yrs Refused to put E+ onto their planes saying it was throwing $$ out the window.Once they were able to look at UAs books they learnt very fast how Wrong they were.
Point is I dont blame whoever made the decission to use the 738.They knew the #s and felt it ws the correct decission , OK in the end it seems it wasnt, but none of us were against the 738 since it was better profit wise we just didnt want a narrow-body for that length of a flight. Do you know anyone that prefers an RJ over a mainliner I dont. Yet many routes have been downgraded to an RJ.
Really OT but both LH and BA Downgraded their widebodys to Only A-320 series to TLV. Everyone yelled they wont fly BA or LH any longer yet it seems they are still filling their planes on that route. My pt is ALL carriers are trying to utilize their fleet to the max that they can. Could be BA/LH felt they would maintain their full fare passengers and all theyd lose would be the lesiure traveler who really didnt trickle much to the bottom line anyway. Wouldnt surprise me if CO was thinking along those same lines, Except it seems it didnt pan out as they had hoped it would.
Has CO lost its LAX/SFO - HI biz, after all its now mainly 738,753 seems no they havent at least from the times I flew it or was looking to fly to HI.Which probably will end up giving them more to their bottom line. CO wont be right all the time and they know that, so what should they do listen to us who Only want planes with F & C no Y and all bed-seats at the price of a G fare, or to play with the planes and routes and try to squeeze what they can out of each route
As an Elite passenger I want widebodys with bed-seats for the price of a G fare or a W and being able to confirm an UP then and there. If I was running UA Id want the opposite and not fill up my Premium cabins with ElCheapo tkt passengers and thusly not beable maybe to sell that seat to someone for alot more $$$. I dont know of any shareholder that will say Jeff should go back to PMUAs ways of leaving the barn door open and giving everything away for $0 or close to that
The problem is we dont have a way to know how many HKG-SIN-HKG tkts they were selling
OT but CO for yrs Refused to put E+ onto their planes saying it was throwing $$ out the window.Once they were able to look at UAs books they learnt very fast how Wrong they were.
Point is I dont blame whoever made the decission to use the 738.They knew the #s and felt it ws the correct decission , OK in the end it seems it wasnt, but none of us were against the 738 since it was better profit wise we just didnt want a narrow-body for that length of a flight. Do you know anyone that prefers an RJ over a mainliner I dont. Yet many routes have been downgraded to an RJ.
Really OT but both LH and BA Downgraded their widebodys to Only A-320 series to TLV. Everyone yelled they wont fly BA or LH any longer yet it seems they are still filling their planes on that route. My pt is ALL carriers are trying to utilize their fleet to the max that they can. Could be BA/LH felt they would maintain their full fare passengers and all theyd lose would be the lesiure traveler who really didnt trickle much to the bottom line anyway. Wouldnt surprise me if CO was thinking along those same lines, Except it seems it didnt pan out as they had hoped it would.
Has CO lost its LAX/SFO - HI biz, after all its now mainly 738,753 seems no they havent at least from the times I flew it or was looking to fly to HI.Which probably will end up giving them more to their bottom line. CO wont be right all the time and they know that, so what should they do listen to us who Only want planes with F & C no Y and all bed-seats at the price of a G fare, or to play with the planes and routes and try to squeeze what they can out of each route
As an Elite passenger I want widebodys with bed-seats for the price of a G fare or a W and being able to confirm an UP then and there. If I was running UA Id want the opposite and not fill up my Premium cabins with ElCheapo tkt passengers and thusly not beable maybe to sell that seat to someone for alot more $$$. I dont know of any shareholder that will say Jeff should go back to PMUAs ways of leaving the barn door open and giving everything away for $0 or close to that
And I'm not sure that the TLV flights are comparable, there are lots of low cost airlines that serve the markets, its mostly low paying passengers, and its only like 2100 miles from TLV to FRA.
#29
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#30
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
In our case a GS will simply book SQ for the HKG-SIN flight and still be in C or F.Its those on the ElCheapos that will suffer (and that includes Me)
Sorry but excluding the GSs and x # of 1Ks most of us are in fact OverEntitled Elites
Last edited by craz; Mar 19, 2013 at 9:43 pm