RockinRon

That makes sense but like you said, begs more questions. Imagine being in a boat under a fuel dump. YIKES!

og

About 150,000 kgs of fuel on board. Not all of this dumped, but enough to bring the aircraft under the permitted max landing weight (significantly less than take-off weight). The dump occurs at 8000' and the assumption is the atomisation of fuel at speed / atlitude ensures it all has evaporated and does not reach land / water. Needless to say, not the preferred option - but preferable to flying for many more hours in circles bruning the fuel until the weight is at its upper limit.

docbert

According to Wikipedia (*), the Maximum takeoff weight for a 747-400 is ~397 metric ton, but the maximum landing weight is only ~296 ton. That means that if you took off on the maximum takeoff weight (not uncommon to be at least close to it for SYD-US), then you've got to drop 100 ton before you can (safely) land. Short of throwing cargo or passengers overboard, dumping fuel is the only option.

Jet fuel costs about $1000/metric ton. There's no way to know exactly how much they needed to dump, but if we go with the round numbers of 100 ton (including what they had already burnt during takeoff), then.. well.. you do the math!

The fuel dissipates in the atmosphere and never reaches the ground.

(*) There's a great document on Boeings website listing the various weights for each of the different types of 747s, including different engines and takeoff altitude. But for round numbers, Wikipedia should be close enough.

RockinRon

Was just cancelled - not sure why. Now I am booked on 840 in 21E. This is getting crazy. I feel for those who do not take a proactive approach to monitoring their flights. Tomorrow will be a nasty surprise for many.

og

Cancelled because the inbound aircraft was also cancelled - never left the States. That means ~ 700 people in SYD looking for seats. Joyous time for the local UA reps in SYD .

LordTentacle

Just tossing this out for anyone who really needs to get somewhere one way or the other

Tomorrows SYD->AKL->LAX/SFO have a fair amount of space for UA to rebook you on

They will not offer this to you directly, but if you propose it to them and you are Plat&above they will do it

yyzprincess

LAX - SYD UA 839 today 10th March Cancelled.

matthandy

Still, does anybody know why the aircraft dumped fuel and returned to the airport? Everyone seems to be talking about dumping fuel, how that works, subsequent delays etc, but no-one has actually said why the aircraft returned in the first place to cause all of this.....

dkc715

840 returned to the airport because the doors to the front landing gear didn't close properly. Talked to a lot of ppl on lower deck who got quite freaked by the vibrations. I have a 15 sec video of the fuel dump from upper deck as well as a pic. Very cool. If someone knows how to post, send me your e mail and I'll forward to you when im back in NY. I'm told it doesn't happen every day (not in my 25 years flying UA). Also, FYI, told that 870 to SFO cancelled because they "stole" the plane to operate 3/11 UA 840. They didn't want to cancel 840 2 days in a row. Looks like ppl getting $600 (or $30k miles) for their troubles. Some folks can't get out for 4 days. I'm now waiting for today's 840 which is on a mechanical. Murphy's Law! I'm done with the 747. This had to have cost UA well over $1m. All the ripple effects.

ual744777sta

Does UA usually rebook via AKL on NZ in cases like this?

LordTentacle

As posted

I have had it done for myself and co-workers many times in the past
The last flight out of Syd that you can use is the 11am SYD->AKL on ANZ
so unless the flight cancels the previous night you are general SOL

hdsfs

I was at Sydney airport planespotting yesterday and hence I got a photo of the United 744 (N105UA) landing with its front gear doors open.

pstaples1

I was booked on UA870 on Monday 11 March, SYD-SFO and it was cancelled. Re-Booked for Tuesday 12 March, same flight, then United cancelled again. They now have re-booked me for Wed. 13 March, SYD-LAX. What's happening and can I get any compensation? UA said it was a "service problem".

DaveMacMS

Wow - things are all making a lot more sense now.

I rode N105UA from SFO to SYD on March 8th, arriving into SYD on March 10th. That was the aircraft that operated UA840 from SYD to LAX with the landing gear issue.

I was in 4C in First, so sat right above the gear. We had a very rough takeoff from SFO - as in, lots of vibration. In fact, I remember thinking that something was amiss as there was very considerable vibration and I did think to myself at the time that the gear was taking a long time to retract.

I assumed the gear retracted because the vibrations stopped - but then they started again and got worse. When they did stop, they stopped immediately and for the duration of the flight.

Evidently the issue was worse, or there was a more cautious captain. Either way, I swear this issue was evident outbound from SFO.

Cheers, Dave.

calburnia

Hello everyone,
After years of lurking I've finally decided to register so I could contribute to the list of SYD/MEL litanies. Been gold elite for years, but that expired in Jan. because most of my flights last year were reward flights. While I always fly United between Aus and the US, I'm very reluctant to fly that route ever again. Here's why.

- 23 Feb UA 840 SYD-LAX cancelled. No explanation why, no indication of how long our delay would be. Apparently this was the second day in a row the SYD/LAX flight was cancelled. The rumor, according to UA staff, was a truck ran into the aircraft. ...?
- No hotels in Sydney meant those of us stranded were put in hotels that were two HOURS away via bus... we were shipped out to Katoomba for the night, and others went to Newcastle, Wollongong and god knows where else. It was a mess. By the time we got to our hotels, everything was closed, so no food. And guess what? No food vouchers for us at the airport either.
- On the flight from SYD to LAX, I wasn't served breakfast. I had to ask for it, after everyone else around me had finished- silly me, assuming someone would serve me the meal I'd paid for. It's usually not a big concern, but after the prior evening's debacle my patience was wearing very thin.
- 9 March UA 839 LAX-SYD cancelled. Again, after little explanation, and lots of standing around waiting. Many people arrived around 7.30 for the 10.15 flight, which was delayed to 2am, then 4am... finally, after hours of waiting, many without much of a meal, the flight was confirmed cancelled around 2am. Fortunately the hotel in Los Angeles was a lot closer, though there was a huge, angry and tired queue all the way out the door until nearly 5am. Some people didn't get to bed until nearly 10 hours after arriving at the airport.
- 10 March. This was fun. My husband was put on a Qantas flight back to MEL by United staff and given a boarding pass for QF 94the previous evening. Checking in at Qantas, he was told his ticket was invalid and that United had made an error with the re-book. We'd have to go to them and sort it out... three terminals away. By this point, we were at about 1.5 hours prior to boarding.
- Arrived at the ticketing line, and tried to explain to a staff member we needed to catch the flight and it was urgent because we still needed to run back to the QF desk. We were told to wait behind others, who we assumed were also stranded Aussies. Only when other SYD/MEL pax came from Delta and Qantas with similar complaints did a senior UA staff member actually tend to us directly. After calling Qantas he confirmed the tickets were good, and we were sent back to the QF desk with no other documentation or explanation. Now we were at exactly 45 minutes prior to departure- panic time and a mad dash from terminal 7 to 4 again. Fortunately, QF staff dealt with my husband immediately- he was given a new boarding pass and made the mad dash through immigration at just under 40 minutes prior to departure.

After our first delay, I sent in a complaint immediately, patiently waited for my canned response and any hope of compensation. My first complaint letter ever. After a little over a week, I received the usual apology and the customer appreciation link, which I filled out. After reading up on other's experiences, I figured there would be an offer of some sort, but no- just a notice saying someone would contact me within 7-10 business days. Wait, wasn't that supposed to be included with the standard apology message? Now that my husband has had to go through the nightmare again, I don't know what we should be expecting in terms of compensation, if anything. I suspect going from Elite to a regular member doesn't do much to help the case.

Should probably add here- I used to work as a CS agent for an Australian airline. Delays and cancellations were common, but there was at least a standard response- $100 vouchers pp immediately, $35 for dinner, $15 for breakfast, up to $150 for a hotel room if you weren't put up for the night. With UA it seems you need to twist an arm to get basic acknowledgment and a $10 meal voucher that no one will even accept.

I've got the same UA839 on Wednesday from LAX. Needless to say I'm preparing for the worst.

Apologies for the rambling, but spending several stressful hours running around LAX has my brain reduced to mush...