CPMaverick

ePaper doesn't require battery power while the text is on the screen. So it's possible that she powered off the eReader and then finished her page before putting it away. Either way probably bad practice, but it's possible she didn't actually break any rules.

drowelf

If and when this comes about, I'll finally break down and buy a Kindle. The fact that you can not use it during taxi/takeoff/landing/<10K has been my big reason so far. I spend far too much time on airplanes and just can not stare into space for all that time. Especially when I'm a Regional Carrier, as it can and is often 20-30 minutes from <10K to gate parking. All the kindles go away, but my paperback is still usable.

freshairborne

How do you conclude that the fact that pilots on UA aircraft are authorized to use iPads that have been approved by the FAA for use during all phases of would flight constitute "entitlement creep"?

I have one of those FAA-approved iPads, though I don't use it for any flying related stuff, but as far as I know, we're not allowed to use them anywhere other than in the cockpit, but I don't feel entitled by having it for cockpit use.

I travel a fair amount as a passenger on UA and other airlines, and the only entitlement I see then is pretty much everyone ignoring the safety videos and flight attendants in regards to electronic devices. The vast majority of people either leave their devices on, or put them in airplane mode rather than turn them off. I'm not an avionics expert nor an electronic devices expert so as long as the FAA says they should not be on unless authorized, I turn mine off.

I have only witnessed one case where an electronic device interfered with the nav system on an airplane I was flying, but it got my attention. As long as it's a possibility, I just comply. I know that flight attendants and other crew members are often in non-compliance as well, so I'm not singling passengers out here.

As LarryJ said in this thread, I think that certain devices will be approved as time goes on, though.

FAB

mre5765

Let's look at what you wrote:You are saying that the reason you have to turn them off is so that that they can verify that you've turned them off.

IflyfromABE

expensive?
difficult?

about as expensive and difficult as letting 80 year olds in wheelchairs keeping their shoes on through TSA checkpoints...

um...

Do you see the entitlement of flying for free and receiving free E+ or F seats before paying customers as a non-rev?
Do you see the entitlement of trying to cut down the lines and the GA let you board at will as a non-rev?
Do you see the entitlement of being able to carry on 3-4 bags all hitched up with no question and stuff up everywhere with no question as a non-rev?
Do you see the entitlement of even while seating on Y, being able to go to the front or the back of the cabin and having a free meal as a non-rev?

Just asking.

Because I see that all the time.

Michael D

Could you elaborate?

GregMM

the reason that you have to turn them off *at that time* is so that they can verify that you've turned them off *before they have to take their seats for takeoff*.

andrewwm

Moreover, I'm sure that there is some subset (possibly quite a very large subset) of all electronic devices that work just fine on T/O and landing. The problem is that unless the FA has a degree in electrical engineering (and maybe not even then), it isn't clear on visual inspection if it's an electronic device that's emitting some massive amount of E/F or if it's like most electronic devices and is operating with minimal E/F. So they all have to be off.

freshairborne

Sure. 180 degree swing on both RMIs while someone had a computer on in flight. When we got the person to cycle it on and off, the RMIs moved 180 degrees.

It was with a full size laptop from the era of 10 lb laptops and had a computer-sized battery. Maybe under the wrong circumstances a phone would only swing it 90 degrees, which is about 90 more than I want to deal with. I'm not a test pilot, and that wasn't under test conditions.

FAB

Michael D

In the days of 10 lb laptops (<1990) no one sold a computer which had a transmitters/radios in them. So this happened on the flight when allowed electronics were allowed to be used?

Do you see any 90 degree swings because I've seen people trying to use there phone's in flight/ heard them ringing as we landed?

CPMaverick

There are official studies that prove the risk of electronic interference. Enough that the FAA has decided to require a blanket ban until now, even though the risk is low. I for one am happy to comply and bothered by those that don't, although it's really a topic for OMNI.

LarryJ

The flight attendants are required to do a visual check for compliance with seat belt, PED, and carry-on rules prior to takeoff. Before they can do these checks they must instruct the passenger to stow their bags, fasten their belts, and turnoff and stow their electronic devices. The main door closing is a convenient trigger point since you then know that everyone is on board and you can begin your required pre-takeoff checks.

After landing there is no requirement for any crewmember checks so cell phones can be used immediately after landing.

andrewwm

The thing is, electronic interference is an additive, not binary, situation. So the more devices you have going, the more powerful the interference gets. Most devices these days are fairly well behaving and add minimal, if any, electrical disturbances.

But some off-brand bought from China that looks like a real iPhone may not be so well behaved and may be emitting electronic interference like it's going out of style. The point is that the FA can't tell just by looking whether a device is going to be well behaved or not. And, moreover, if everybody (150 people) are all using devices simultaneously as the plane takes off, you can image the difference in interference (because interference is additive) versus the one guy sneaking in a game of Sudoku on his iPad despite being told to turn it off.

My understanding is that most (and certainly all essential) flight instruments/components are shielded from electromagnetic interference. But until plane manufacturers can guarantee that all devices that might be useful during flight are shielded, then all devices will have to be off during takeoff.

Maybe it's only a 1 in a 10,000 chance that any device will be enough to moderately interfere with the radio or directional finding. And maybe it's a 1 in 10,000 that this interference will cause a crash (tower calls in "change altitude collision immanent" plane: "what's that? all i heard is static, some yahoo is using his knockoff phone from China") - but until the FAA can nail down both of those probabilities given that potentially everyone on the plane might be using devices at once and some of them might not be well-behaved and that those joint probabilities be in the realm that the agency feels is unlikely to ever cause a real-world crash, devices need to be off.

Zip

Another point that is missing in this thread. These devices, during takeoff and landing, must be turned off and stored. In case of turbulence, you need to minimize the chances of flying projectiles.

freshairborne

It was probably 10 years ago or more, while flying an A-320. I don't know what the computer was, what it's componentry was, or anything else about it, other than when it was on, but it caused a navigation anomaly. I don't know what current electronics do or don't do with regards to aircraft systems. What I do know is that they can't be legally used on aircraft right now. That's enough for me. As I said earlier, I'm not a test pilot. If I don't see any obvious indications that someone is using their phone or other device, that doesn't mean the device is having no effect on any part of the aircraft.

I fly the planes and comply with every possible rule set forth by the FAA, FCC, NTSB, UAL, and every other acronym when I do. When someone uses an electronic device, they're not respecting the same tenets that I do. I assume that if I showed the same blatant disregard to my responsibilities as the captain of the plane they're riding on that they do by violating law that would very easy to comply with but for their own personal convenience, or maybe their own ignorance, they'd probably be lawyered up via their cellphones before we blocked into the gate.


FAB