exerda

And my point is that I take flights which are less convenient and cost more than the competition to keep business with UA. If UA is pricing their flights more than the competition and still losing money on my travel, there is something much more seriously wrong with UA than "over-entitled elites." @:-)



Why is there always the assumption that 1Ks are somehow MR-leeches who only buy loss-leader flights from UA?

sbm12

Not all them are. But some are and many of those are, historically, the most vocal when changes like this come along. They bemoan the loss as though they deserve more because they give all their MR business to UA. That's not the customer the company wants.

Apparently I'm not very good at math. I have no idea what your point is here.

EmailKid

Oddly enough, I was just on a PMCO IAH-SJO, and noticed that FA was asking the fellow next to me, and then one in the back about their lunch choice. Then, just before starting said service she took requests in the usual way, starting with 1A.

I asked, and sure enough, the fellow next to me was a GS. And while one of the FAs was particularly surly (luckily she worked the back cabin), they did acknowledge the GS flyers, even though it was a PMCO crew and plane ^

Ended up in an exit row seat on the way back, and that was fairly typical PMCO service in coach, minus the surly FA, or maybe she was in a better mood (this would have been the "same" plane I flew south on two days earlier).

And to get back OT, methinks the point OP is geting at is that not all 1K / Plats are created equal. There have been thread on this in the past, whether someone who does a (back then, not so much now) $200 transcon to gain status is UA's best customer @:-)

I like to think I'm one of their better customers, as I travel without checked luggage, and always volunteer if they are overbooked (making for better experience for others who have to get someplace on time).

And I've participated in Ca$h and Miles upgrades bringing extra $$$ to UA on flights where those seats would have gone out empty (yes, there were a FEW flights where I bought up that went out with empty Biz seats).

EmailKid

pdx1M

Actually, so long as the revenue from the "last" customer is higher then the marginal cost (which is pretty much fuel) then that customer is valuable to UA. The alternative is that the seat goes empty. I am not a MRer but reality is that those folks fill otherwise empty seats. UA sets the price they think they can get from that seat. This notion that they should rid themselves of MRers is silly. They should size their capacity so that they come as close as possible to filling it at a reasonable price (i.e., profitable in the context of the entire plane). If they simply got rid of all the folks that bought tickets at below their average cost (CASM) then they would actually be in worse shape by far. And yes - I do understand P&L and have decades of business experience to support that.

burlax

Bunch of nonsense. Sure, that simplistic reasoning would apply if UA flew you on a designated plane - then you could talk about being net revenue positive. But the truth is, this is not the airline industry economic model, and it hasn't been for quite a while. That a $300 transcon fare doesn't cover the cost of gas if divided by the number of passengers equally doesnt mean that a person buying that fare is useless as he still helps to offset the costs.

UA needs Joe Schmoes buying cheap fares just as it needs GS buying expensive fares, because the current pricing model is to price-discriminate and to fly the planes full. But if you still think you're right, go ahead and show me an airline that fills up its planes with the net revenue positive fares only.

A good customer is someone who buys published fares often and doesn't clog phone lines more than an average customer in his fare group.

PV_Premier

to me it comes down to the fact that there is a board full of people here who care about this company and felt as though, prior to 3/3, they were treated as if they were the company's best customers...whether or not that was true...because they had brand loyalty and were rewarded for it, or at least incentivized to continue practicing that loyalty. post 3/3, there has been a consistently remarkable track record of people still practicing UA brand loyalty and yet being screwed in one way or another by the company to which they are trying to be loyal and it's only natural for people to be fed up with that 180 degree change of face.

case and point example...prior to 3/3, EVERY SINGLE TIME i got on the plane in PHL the UA GS agent there would personally thank me for being a 1P as he scanned my boarding pass. thanked for being a 1P!! now, i don't live in PHL anymore and haven't flown UA out of there since the merger, so i can't say this particular agent wouldn't still do this, but not once on the phone, at an airport, in an email, or anywhere else have i been thanked for pushing $8-10k of my hard earned money into the company. i know it's not much in the grand scheme, but piss off 5000 1Ps in a similar situation, plus a few hundred plats and GS's and it now becomes a measurable blip on the revenue radar.

only UA knows who their "best" customers are, by whatever measure or logic they judge that...but the fact remains that pre-UAdbaCO, most UA MP premier members felt as if we were "good customers" by the way we were treated, served, and incentivized to keep our business with the company. now we feel like annoying mosquitoes at the company picnic.

cyborg

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oenophilist

There are basically three types of customers:

1. Those that purchase 99% on price. These customers fill the seats, but do not contribute to margins because they push prices down.
2. Those that are loyal to an airline, but still partly buy on price. These are willing to pay a premium to stick with a particular airline, but within limits.
3. Those that are premium passengers that will spend extra money for additional services, regardless of the airline.

FT is primarily category 2. Category 3 is captured by the best. Internationally, none of the U.S. airlines can compete for this customer. UA is focusing on extracting additional money on category 1, largely at the expense of category 2. Theoretically, if they can increase the margin of their price-driven passengers through additional fees, etc, that will increase their margins. That assumes that the high-margin passengers in category 2 stick around.

If, as a Flyertalker, you believe that UA is screwing you, then leave them. I did. I know many others that have. And even as a previous GS, I have never received an email or call asking me why I haven't booked anything on UA this year.

burlax

You seem to misunderstand the issues here. If UA did bean-counting and found out that MP was costing money, then the proper solution is to scrap MP and be explicit about it. Then people would make a rational decision whether to stay with new UA or to go elsewhere. But selling TODs by stealth, then making announcements at 5pm on a Friday night that fare class availability will be withdrawn, and a bunch of other stuff like that upset people because UA is not playing the fair game.

If UA came to a conclusion that people's using upgrade instruments were costing too much money, it should have done this - (i) announce that starting next year there will be no GPUs/RPUs/CPUs; (ii) let existing premiers complete the year on the terms that they earned their status; (iii) see another mass exodus of flyers to AA. But UA wants to both have its cake and eat it. And you can't have it both ways.

emcampbe

My guess: a lot of people think because they have status, regardless of the level, or how they got it, that makes them one of UA's best customers? Does it? Maybe, maybe not.

What it really means, GS excepted, is those with elite status are the in the X% (5%? 10% 15%) of top mileage flying MP members. Just because one flies a lot of miles, it can, but doesn't necessary mean, that they are one of United's best customers.

I'm a 1P. I don't generally think of myself as a "best customer" or not. Depending on one's definition, I might be, or I might not be. I definitely think I'm a good customer based on the fares I pay, and I'm sure UA makes a decent decent profit from my habits.

However, in my roughly 5-6 years as a UA elite, I have been treated well. I find my requests, given they are reasonable, are usually handled in a positive matter. And honestly, this hasn't changed with the merger. Have I asked for things that by the rules, I'm not entitled to, but seem logical? Certainly. I just ask nicely and usually its not a problem. If they say they can't, I just say thank you for checking, and go on with my day.

I really can't complain too much, even with some of the cutbacks. However, I understand why some people are upset.

I think that until UA goes to a revenue-based system for mileage earning, status will never be indicative of who the airline's best customers are.

PV_Premier

with 48k BIS miles this year (30k+ of them post 3/3) and another ~20k to go, i'm intimately familiar with all the issues. i don't disagree with anything you said, for the record...but i simply gave a different answer to the OP..."what makes us think we are UA's best customers?" and my answer is "because for a long time, we were treated as such by the company, whether or not it was true".

also for the record i don't claim to be one of UA's best customers. i'm nowhere near the spend of a GS, or even many of my 1P 'colleagues' who consistently fly W's and above. but i also refuse to believe that UA is losing money on me as a customer. and that, combined with the fact that i regularly choose UA when DL is a perfectly viable option, leads me to believe i'm at least not a "bad customer". now, how i perceive i'm treated by UA...well, i can only compare to US and DL who i fly sporadically when i'm either rebooked due to IRROPS or when I cant justify the significantly higher cost on UA. but even as kettles on those airlines, i've been treated better post 3/3 than as a top 20% (or wherever i fall) flyer on UA. FWIW.

dayone

Too many posters are confusing "valuable" and "best" with "frequent."

burlax

I personally think that thinking of oneself as the "best" customer is silly. WTH is the "best" customer after all?

I just wish UA management were honest. A lot of FFs would have understood a cut in benefits coupled with an honest explanation and an apology and would have stuck with the company had they felt that they'd been treated with respect even when the benefits were pulled. But UA actions were nothing but in bad faith.

UA can make changes to MP, but it still has to let premiers who accrued status on specific terms to use their status according to the terms on which it was earned. If done by the book, this means announcing "enhancements" one year ahead of time or going to court to get a legally sanctioned immediate change to the MP terms (which would likely take more than a year).

Often1

+1 - Way too many people. What's crazy is the # of people who think that because they add some value, that they are entitled to close-to-guaranteed freebies. That's where the system breaks down.

This is partly UA's fault (indeed, the other legacy carriers too). During the recession, they cut fares, handed out freebies and gave away perks like candy. That was a model which could not and did not survive (just as NW & CO). But, now with an improved economy, more paid F, better handling of large corporate accounts and capacity cuts, UA and the remaining legacy carriers need no longer coddle people whom they value but not to the extent that those people think.

At the same time there is less competition. We are down to four and will soon have three major carriers. Although each carrier treats its "elites" in slightly different ways, they are all moving towards a system which rewards $ spend at the expense of mere frequency.

None of this is to say that a segment flyer who always books the cheapest seat, isn't valued. It's just that he won't be seeing freebie F and the like. He may see a free checked bag, perhaps E+ and perhaps premium checkpoint and the like.

But, the grass really isn't and won't be any greener elsewhere.

cyborg

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