UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit
Jul 18, 2012, 10:42 am
#946
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,205
Yes, it is already addressed in the UA Insider's post - that customers who booked the tickets have 2 options -
1) fly the award with the correct miles paid.
2) cancel the award with fee waived. (though so far it seems you could not get fee waived cancellation doing it online, but given the directives so far, the phone agent should be able to waive $150 fee manually if you call in to cancel.)
1) fly the award with the correct miles paid.
2) cancel the award with fee waived. (though so far it seems you could not get fee waived cancellation doing it online, but given the directives so far, the phone agent should be able to waive $150 fee manually if you call in to cancel.)
My question is what outcome is going to placate the torch and pitchfork crowd - getting a refund of the miles after the trip (while taking the risk this might not happen) or a ETC voucher for some unknown amount valid on future travel?
Jul 18, 2012, 10:43 am
#947
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
UA went Ch. 11 once, and it had nothing to do with their high breakage compensation regime.
Fees and costs are different things. UA would have to have a specific statutory basis to get fees.
That would get them in even more trouble. If the airline cancels, they have an obligation to still provide transport.
CO even had a problem with incorrectly attempting to apply a $150 redeposit in situations where a 1K booked someone else on their miles. You had to call.
1) You presume the deal was only around 3 hours. The indications are that this was around at least from Saturday.
2) While I could see reasons for someone to visit HKG 75 times in 11 months - especially as a small business owner who self-funds all travel - I agree that such a person would likely be acting without any justification at all. Also, remember that this worked for beyond flights.
Fees and costs are different things. UA would have to have a specific statutory basis to get fees.
That would get them in even more trouble. If the airline cancels, they have an obligation to still provide transport.
CO even had a problem with incorrectly attempting to apply a $150 redeposit in situations where a 1K booked someone else on their miles. You had to call.
1) You presume the deal was only around 3 hours. The indications are that this was around at least from Saturday.
2) While I could see reasons for someone to visit HKG 75 times in 11 months - especially as a small business owner who self-funds all travel - I agree that such a person would likely be acting without any justification at all. Also, remember that this worked for beyond flights.
Jul 18, 2012, 10:44 am
#948
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,393
Even a self employed business owner would have no reason for 75 round trips for himself in a year. Before I moved my offices to Dubai, they were opened in Hong Kong. I lived for 18 months between HKG-LAX flying EVERY Saturday in one direction or the other (I spent every other week alternating between Hong Kong and L.A. I thought I would die from the amount of traveling I did that first year and even with flying HKG-LAX or visa versa EVERY SAT I still only used 26 round trips that year (1996-97). This guy would have to fly in one direction almost EVERY 2 days to use 75 round trips. No way
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 18, 2012 at 10:55 am Reason: merge
Jul 18, 2012, 10:45 am
#949
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: AUS
Posts: 276
I certainly wouldn't imagine anyone doing that. But what if he booked himself and all his friends for a wedding in Hong Kong or something? Or what if the number was a mistype or some guy trying to have fun with all of us. Bottom line for me - doesn't matter either way.
Jul 18, 2012, 10:45 am
#950
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 537
Precisely. Few people are arguing that this wasn't a mistake fare. The DOT have rules about mistake fares. The size of the mistake is a non-issue. If the DOT believes that award flights are the same as paid fares (as has been indicated), then UA will face some large repercussions from DOT.
Jul 18, 2012, 10:55 am
#951
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
This is NOT like being given incorrect change by the cashier.
This is like you scan a package of steak at the self-scanner at the grocery, it comes up $0.10 and you put it in your bag, pay and take it home.
You did nothing wrong. You did not steal. You paid what the computer told you to pay. The grocery store has no right to ask for its steak back nor to charge you more for the steak.
This is like you scan a package of steak at the self-scanner at the grocery, it comes up $0.10 and you put it in your bag, pay and take it home.
You did nothing wrong. You did not steal. You paid what the computer told you to pay. The grocery store has no right to ask for its steak back nor to charge you more for the steak.
Jul 18, 2012, 10:57 am
#952
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
I agree. As I said last night (4 pages ago), I am shocked at how the new FT is so divisive about this. When I came to FT a bunch of years ago, there was mostly cheering that a deal would be honored.
I do somewhat wonder if it's a matter of venue. Every forum has a vibe, and MR Deals / Discussion has a much different feel to it, and is frequented by different folks. The UA forum has a lot of business travelers who don't need / want to look for deals, cause they make 1K/GS on the corporate dime. They are sure to have a different view of this when those of us who travel on our own dime.
I do somewhat wonder if it's a matter of venue. Every forum has a vibe, and MR Deals / Discussion has a much different feel to it, and is frequented by different folks. The UA forum has a lot of business travelers who don't need / want to look for deals, cause they make 1K/GS on the corporate dime. They are sure to have a different view of this when those of us who travel on our own dime.
Jul 18, 2012, 11:03 am
#953
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 184
If UA is forced to find ways of making sure these kind of mistakes don't happen again, a logical remedy could be something like requiring 48 hours for award tickets to be issued (giving UA plenty of time to review itineraries closely before issuing tickets). This would really hurt those of us that like to use our awards last minute or change flights right up to the very last day. If we bite UA to hard with this they may just bite back and none of us will like the outcome.
Jul 18, 2012, 11:04 am
#954
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
Uh, how about a trip to HKG in F for 4 miles + tax? :-:
Would you (and others) give the 75 trip thing a break? How do you know he didn't book for family / friends / other FTers who were away from their computers? A long-time (pre-FT) friend is the one who first alerted me to the deal. He was reading about is on his phone, and was away from his computer. I regret not just putting him on our reservation. What's to lose?
Would you (and others) give the 75 trip thing a break? How do you know he didn't book for family / friends / other FTers who were away from their computers? A long-time (pre-FT) friend is the one who first alerted me to the deal. He was reading about is on his phone, and was away from his computer. I regret not just putting him on our reservation. What's to lose?
Jul 18, 2012, 11:04 am
#955
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
I'm not sure that's it. As I have said before I didn't get in on this and have no problem with the people who did (with a few exceptions like the 75 ticket guy or the poor elderly frugal traveller who can't make it to the airport fast enough). If UA were just to quietly honor these and everyone would just shut up about it, good for them. My problem is with the self righteous, mud slinging folks that are acting so surprised by UA's reaTction so far and talking about taking them to court, dragging them thru the mud and on and on. My fear is these people's actions may one day hurt us all. ANA will not issue award travel within 3 days of departure, other airlines have similar no close in booking or instant ticketing. Many of us book award travel or especially make changes right up to the date of the flight. If UA is forced to find ways of making sure these kind of mistakes don't happen again, a logical remedy could be something like requiring 48 hours for award tickets to be issued (giving UA plenty of time to review itineraries closely before issuing tickets). This would really hurt those of us that like to use our awards last minute or change flights right up to the very last day. If we bite UA to hard with this they may just bite back and none of us will like the outcome.
Jul 18, 2012, 11:05 am
#956
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,432
The story was just on the WABC radio news at 1:00pm. They said that UA has to honor the tkts according to the DOT Sorry if this posted already. Just jumped on to post.
Jul 18, 2012, 11:06 am
#957
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
United can't even write code to keep my reservation intact or to credit me the correct mileage. Don't give them to much credit for what you think they 'can" do
Jul 18, 2012, 11:07 am
#958
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
I agree. As I said last night (4 pages ago), I am shocked at how the new FT is so divisive about this. When I came to FT a bunch of years ago, there was mostly cheering that a deal would be honored.
I do somewhat wonder if it's a matter of venue. Every forum has a vibe, and MR Deals / Discussion has a much different feel to it, and is frequented by different folks. The UA forum has a lot of business travelers who don't need / want to look for deals, cause they make 1K/GS on the corporate dime. They are sure to have a different view of this when those of us who travel on our own dime.
I do somewhat wonder if it's a matter of venue. Every forum has a vibe, and MR Deals / Discussion has a much different feel to it, and is frequented by different folks. The UA forum has a lot of business travelers who don't need / want to look for deals, cause they make 1K/GS on the corporate dime. They are sure to have a different view of this when those of us who travel on our own dime.
Jul 18, 2012, 11:08 am
#959
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 642
They might be jumping the gun and basing that report on the DOT spokesman's comments that have already been published (which are not clear)...
Jul 18, 2012, 11:08 am
#960
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: United 1K & AA Exec Plat
Posts: 87
Well it was kinda said in previous articles online that DOT was in talks with them ans that the rule is htey have to honor it, but what you just said is that the DOT said they HAVE to honor it is that how you heard it or did you just hear it saying that according to a DOT rule they would hae to honor it?