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UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit

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UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit

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Old Jul 20, 2012, 5:36 pm
  #2446  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: LAX
Programs: UA 1K MM, AS MVPG, SPG PLAT 100
Posts: 1,497
Originally Posted by AlohaDaveKennedy
Who cares how this ticketing business all plays out! You all need to be asking yourself if an airline this sloppy with its pricing system might also be this sloppy with its aircraft maintenance system. Do you want to trust your life to an airline that seems to have accountability problems and maybe even some employee sabotage issues? Does the difference in the fare amounts look like a typo? Ask yourself whether people have been reporting sniping and labor issues or a happy, integrated company workforce.
To pay for this flub, UA will have to move all of its C and D checks to BLR.
KosherKimchee is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 5:38 pm
  #2447  
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Programs: AA,UA/CO, SPG50, Hilton Gold
Posts: 430
Originally Posted by unavaca
This is a screenshot from viewing the booking, not from the booking flow. You can tell because there's a link to refund/redeposit.
My bad. Anyone has screen shots of the booking process showing nothing else but the 4-mile quote?
Bacopa is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 5:44 pm
  #2448  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Originally Posted by Bacopa
My bad. Anyone has screen shots of the booking process showing nothing else but the 4-mile quote?
That's not necessary. The 4 mile quote was always displayed. The regular mile price was also displayed in one place before purchase on the top like that one screenshot shows. However it quite clearly says after that the total price is 4 miles + taxes/fees.
Yammer is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 6:23 pm
  #2449  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by West Coast Ace
I'd say UA has lived up to this:

If a party asserts Force Majeure as an excuse for failure to perform the party's obligation, then the nonperforming party must prove that the party took reasonable steps to minimize delay or damages caused by foreseeable events (sent out emails so @teddy25 didn't bother going to the airport), that the party substantially fulfilled all non-excused obligations (flew the people for 8 miles who already started their trips), and that the other party was timely notified of the likelihood or actual occurrence of an event described in Clause 19 (Force Majeure).

Anyone who think the DoT rules is one sentence to the effect that 'airlines have to honor mistake fares' is very naive to the point of ridiculousness.
Do you have any idea what Force Majeure actually means? UA cannot assert FM due to it's own IT screw up. FM is caused by unavoidable things outside the control of the carrier - acts or war, acts of God, etc. Not acts of UA and their IT flaw.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/...#axzz21DCZ7dne
Cargojon is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 6:25 pm
  #2450  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by sbrower
Let's see now. Time to play lawyer.

"Have you ever redeemed an award on any airline program?"

"Have you ever read the award chart for any airline program?"

"Have you ever purchased an airline mile?"

"Have you ever earned an airline mile?"

"What value do you place on an airline mile?"
"I will sell you 1,000,000 of them, right now, for 1/2 of what you just answered to the last question. Will you accept?"

"Did you know that this was an error?"

"Prior to booking this ticket, did you or anyone you know read about this fare being available on a website, blog or other source?"

"I have here the log of every time that you accessed FlyerTalk using your screen name of . . . . It shows right here that you read the thread about this deal just minutes before you booked this ticket. Does that refresh your recollection?"

That is the first 2 minutes of 20 hours of prep I would do if United hired me to defend these cases.
Yep and this kind of mumb jumbo is wire nobody would ever, ever hire you as a lawyer. Sounds like you learned all you know about the law from NBC and Fox
ma91pmh is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 7:01 pm
  #2451  
In memoriam
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Posts: 5,176
Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
I took these, although I didn't book...


Emphasis is mine
14 CFR 399.84 Price advertising and opt-out provisions.

(a) The Department considers any advertising or solicitation by a direct air carrier, indirect air carrier, an agent of either, or a ticket agent, for passenger air transportation, a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations) or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that must be purchased with air transportation that states a price for such air transportation, tour, or tour component to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712, unless the price stated is the entire price to be paid by the customer to the carrier, or agent, for such air transportation, tour, or tour component. Although charges included within the single total price listed (e.g., government taxes) may be stated separately or through links or “pop ups” on websites that display the total price, such charges may not be false or misleading, may not be displayed prominently, may not be presented in the same or larger size as the total price, and must provide cost information on a per passenger basis that accurately reflects the cost of the item covered by the charge.
Is the value of 300,000 miles shown in the above screenshot "false or misleading"? If so UA is in violation of 14 CFR 399.84.
gfowler-ord-1k is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 7:14 pm
  #2452  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
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Posts: 3,670
Originally Posted by West Coast Ace
I'd say UA has lived up to this:

If a party asserts Force Majeure as an excuse for failure to perform the party's obligation...<snip>
Except for the part where there is an incident that meets the definition of Force Majeure.

Originally Posted by West Coast Ace
Anyone who think the DoT rules is one sentence to the effect that 'airlines have to honor mistake fares' is very naive to the point of ridiculousness.
It's a bit of a run-on, but I think technically this is one sentence:
"Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”"

While this isn't exactly the wording of 14 CFR 399.88, it is DOT's specific guidance on how this law will be interpreted and enforced.
janetdoe is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 7:19 pm
  #2453  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
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Originally Posted by AlohaDaveKennedy
Who cares how this ticketing business all plays out! You all need to be asking yourself if an airline this sloppy with its pricing system might also be this sloppy with its aircraft maintenance system. Do you want to trust your life to an airline that seems to have accountability problems and maybe even some employee sabotage issues? Does the difference in the fare amounts look like a typo? Ask yourself whether people have been reporting sniping and labor issues or a happy, integrated company workforce.
Careful now, UA's Cardinals will end up burning your MP account at the stake!
84fiero is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 7:21 pm
  #2454  
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Just file a complaint http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm

This is in regard to your complaint against United Airlines (UAL) about certain Mileage Plus Award tickets to, from, or via Hong Kong that could be acquired on UAL's website between July 14 and July 15, 2012. Information that we have obtained to date from affected consumers and the airline, including screen shots taken from various steps in the booking process, reflects a discrepancy in the mileage amounts required to be paid for these tickets. More specifically, the mileage amounts, as they appeared on the website's mileage award tables, itinerary selection page and at the top of the itinerary purchase page, were significantly higher (e.g., 320,000 miles plus taxes and fees for a roundtrip ticket) than the amount displayed as the "total price" on the itinerary purchase page (i.e., four miles plus taxes and fees). In short, it is unclear what full price was offered. We will continue to investigate this matter to determine the full price of these tickets, whether that full price was, in fact, paid by the consumers, whether the airline issued tickets upon full payment, and whether the carrier raised the price after full payment was made and the tickets were issued.

As you may be aware, the Department recently issued a regulation, 14 CFR 399.88, that is intended to prevent airlines from unfairly and deceptively raising the price of a ticket after a consumer has paid in full and purchased that ticket. As stated in the regulation, such conduct would constitute a prohibited unfair and deceptive practice under a statute enacted by Congress, 49 USC 41712. The goal of our investigation is to determine whether UAL has acted unfairly or deceptively to consumers who acquired Mileage Plus Awards tickets as described above. Please note that, regardless of the outcome of our investigation, consumers are free to pursue claims (e.g., a breach of contract claim) against the airline in an appropriate civil court for monetary damages and other remedies particular to their situation.
holtju2 is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 7:57 pm
  #2455  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Programs: Double Platinum all programs (Shh it's a secret level)
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by holtju2
Just file a complaint http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm
Quote:
This is in regard to your complaint against United Airlines (UAL) about certain Mileage Plus Award tickets to, from, or via Hong Kong that could be acquired on UAL's website between July 14 and July 15, 2012. Information that we have obtained to date from affected consumers and the airline, including screen shots taken from various steps in the booking process, reflects a discrepancy in the mileage amounts required to be paid for these tickets. More specifically, the mileage amounts, as they appeared on the website's mileage award tables, itinerary selection page and at the top of the itinerary purchase page, were significantly higher (e.g., 320,000 miles plus taxes and fees for a roundtrip ticket) than the amount displayed as the "total price" on the itinerary purchase page (i.e., four miles plus taxes and fees). In short, it is unclear what full price was offered. We will continue to investigate this matter to determine the full price of these tickets, whether that full price was, in fact, paid by the consumers, whether the airline issued tickets upon full payment, and whether the carrier raised the price after full payment was made and the tickets were issued.

As you may be aware, the Department recently issued a regulation, 14 CFR 399.88, that is intended to prevent airlines from unfairly and deceptively raising the price of a ticket after a consumer has paid in full and purchased that ticket. As stated in the regulation, such conduct would constitute a prohibited unfair and deceptive practice under a statute enacted by Congress, 49 USC 41712. The goal of our investigation is to determine whether UAL has acted unfairly or deceptively to consumers who acquired Mileage Plus Awards tickets as described above. Please note that, regardless of the outcome of our investigation, consumers are free to pursue claims (e.g., a breach of contract claim) against the airline in an appropriate civil court for monetary damages and other remedies particular to their situation.
Do you see, breaching the contract is exactly United's business strategy in this situation. Honor tickets = lose millions. Breach contract and cancel remaining tickets, 90% of the people will just go away. The few people who actually pursue this in court will most likely prevail, because it's a simple breach. The fact that they honored tickets even after they claimed it was a mistake makes it even clearer. Whether a buyer knows this is a super great deal or mistake is not relevant to whether or not there is a valid contract. If I sell a Picasso at a garage sale for $5 dollars, there is no recourse if I find out later the buyer sold it for $1 million. The DOT is even telegraphing their direction in the reply.

I'll wait a few days, send a demand letter to United, then decide which court to file in. I wish a class action would make it easier for me.
RenHoek is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 8:17 pm
  #2456  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
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I never thought I'd say this, but is it possible every conceivable thing to say on this subject has already been said in this thread?

I wonder...
as219 is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 8:26 pm
  #2457  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 563
Originally Posted by andyh64000
Because UA wouldn't have made a move like this if they didn't know what would happen. There is no way DOT will force them to give $100M worth of tickets away for free. This isn't a passenger rights issue and you know it. Some of the rationalization here is hilarious "maybe it could have been a 4 mile per ticket promotion" .

I am very happy that UA cancelled all the tickets because how do you think they would try to get that $100M expense back?
They by no means canceled all the tickets. There are many that still hold very valuable and valid tickets. It's just not something worth discussing.
Milezjunkie is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 8:30 pm
  #2458  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
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Posts: 5,499
Originally Posted by as219
I never thought I'd say this, but is it possible every conceivable thing to say on this subject has already been said in this thread?

I wonder...
Not once but twice, at least
ma91pmh is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 9:13 pm
  #2459  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NYC
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Posts: 5,611
Originally Posted by Milezjunkie
They by no means canceled all the tickets. There are many that still hold very valuable and valid tickets. It's just not something worth discussing.
of course it is
BDLORD is offline  
Old Jul 20, 2012, 9:43 pm
  #2460  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Posts: 6,394
Originally Posted by BDLORD
of course it is
Why, so you can call up COdbaUA and demand they cancel them?
hobo13 is offline  


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