UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit
#2446
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: LAX
Programs: UA 1K MM, AS MVPG, SPG PLAT 100
Posts: 1,497
Who cares how this ticketing business all plays out! You all need to be asking yourself if an airline this sloppy with its pricing system might also be this sloppy with its aircraft maintenance system. Do you want to trust your life to an airline that seems to have accountability problems and maybe even some employee sabotage issues? Does the difference in the fare amounts look like a typo? Ask yourself whether people have been reporting sniping and labor issues or a happy, integrated company workforce.
#2448
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 30
That's not necessary. The 4 mile quote was always displayed. The regular mile price was also displayed in one place before purchase on the top like that one screenshot shows. However it quite clearly says after that the total price is 4 miles + taxes/fees.
#2449
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,392
I'd say UA has lived up to this:
If a party asserts Force Majeure as an excuse for failure to perform the party's obligation, then the nonperforming party must prove that the party took reasonable steps to minimize delay or damages caused by foreseeable events (sent out emails so @teddy25 didn't bother going to the airport), that the party substantially fulfilled all non-excused obligations (flew the people for 8 miles who already started their trips), and that the other party was timely notified of the likelihood or actual occurrence of an event described in Clause 19 (Force Majeure).
Anyone who think the DoT rules is one sentence to the effect that 'airlines have to honor mistake fares' is very naive to the point of ridiculousness.
If a party asserts Force Majeure as an excuse for failure to perform the party's obligation, then the nonperforming party must prove that the party took reasonable steps to minimize delay or damages caused by foreseeable events (sent out emails so @teddy25 didn't bother going to the airport), that the party substantially fulfilled all non-excused obligations (flew the people for 8 miles who already started their trips), and that the other party was timely notified of the likelihood or actual occurrence of an event described in Clause 19 (Force Majeure).
Anyone who think the DoT rules is one sentence to the effect that 'airlines have to honor mistake fares' is very naive to the point of ridiculousness.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/...#axzz21DCZ7dne
#2450
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
Let's see now. Time to play lawyer.
"Have you ever redeemed an award on any airline program?"
"Have you ever read the award chart for any airline program?"
"Have you ever purchased an airline mile?"
"Have you ever earned an airline mile?"
"What value do you place on an airline mile?"
"I will sell you 1,000,000 of them, right now, for 1/2 of what you just answered to the last question. Will you accept?"
"Did you know that this was an error?"
"Prior to booking this ticket, did you or anyone you know read about this fare being available on a website, blog or other source?"
"I have here the log of every time that you accessed FlyerTalk using your screen name of . . . . It shows right here that you read the thread about this deal just minutes before you booked this ticket. Does that refresh your recollection?"
That is the first 2 minutes of 20 hours of prep I would do if United hired me to defend these cases.
"Have you ever redeemed an award on any airline program?"
"Have you ever read the award chart for any airline program?"
"Have you ever purchased an airline mile?"
"Have you ever earned an airline mile?"
"What value do you place on an airline mile?"
"I will sell you 1,000,000 of them, right now, for 1/2 of what you just answered to the last question. Will you accept?"
"Did you know that this was an error?"
"Prior to booking this ticket, did you or anyone you know read about this fare being available on a website, blog or other source?"
"I have here the log of every time that you accessed FlyerTalk using your screen name of . . . . It shows right here that you read the thread about this deal just minutes before you booked this ticket. Does that refresh your recollection?"
That is the first 2 minutes of 20 hours of prep I would do if United hired me to defend these cases.
#2451
In memoriam
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL (ORD), Phoenix AZ (PHX)
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM, Starwood Platinum, a nothing in several others
Posts: 5,176
Emphasis is mine
14 CFR 399.84 Price advertising and opt-out provisions.
(a) The Department considers any advertising or solicitation by a direct air carrier, indirect air carrier, an agent of either, or a ticket agent, for passenger air transportation, a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations) or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that must be purchased with air transportation that states a price for such air transportation, tour, or tour component to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712, unless the price stated is the entire price to be paid by the customer to the carrier, or agent, for such air transportation, tour, or tour component. Although charges included within the single total price listed (e.g., government taxes) may be stated separately or through links or “pop ups” on websites that display the total price, such charges may not be false or misleading, may not be displayed prominently, may not be presented in the same or larger size as the total price, and must provide cost information on a per passenger basis that accurately reflects the cost of the item covered by the charge.
Is the value of 300,000 miles shown in the above screenshot "false or misleading"? If so UA is in violation of 14 CFR 399.84.
(a) The Department considers any advertising or solicitation by a direct air carrier, indirect air carrier, an agent of either, or a ticket agent, for passenger air transportation, a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations) or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that must be purchased with air transportation that states a price for such air transportation, tour, or tour component to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712, unless the price stated is the entire price to be paid by the customer to the carrier, or agent, for such air transportation, tour, or tour component. Although charges included within the single total price listed (e.g., government taxes) may be stated separately or through links or “pop ups” on websites that display the total price, such charges may not be false or misleading, may not be displayed prominently, may not be presented in the same or larger size as the total price, and must provide cost information on a per passenger basis that accurately reflects the cost of the item covered by the charge.
#2452
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
"Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”"
While this isn't exactly the wording of 14 CFR 399.88, it is DOT's specific guidance on how this law will be interpreted and enforced.
#2453
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Who cares how this ticketing business all plays out! You all need to be asking yourself if an airline this sloppy with its pricing system might also be this sloppy with its aircraft maintenance system. Do you want to trust your life to an airline that seems to have accountability problems and maybe even some employee sabotage issues? Does the difference in the fare amounts look like a typo? Ask yourself whether people have been reporting sniping and labor issues or a happy, integrated company workforce.
#2454
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: All over
Programs: Most
Posts: 10,839
Just file a complaint http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm
This is in regard to your complaint against United Airlines (UAL) about certain Mileage Plus Award tickets to, from, or via Hong Kong that could be acquired on UAL's website between July 14 and July 15, 2012. Information that we have obtained to date from affected consumers and the airline, including screen shots taken from various steps in the booking process, reflects a discrepancy in the mileage amounts required to be paid for these tickets. More specifically, the mileage amounts, as they appeared on the website's mileage award tables, itinerary selection page and at the top of the itinerary purchase page, were significantly higher (e.g., 320,000 miles plus taxes and fees for a roundtrip ticket) than the amount displayed as the "total price" on the itinerary purchase page (i.e., four miles plus taxes and fees). In short, it is unclear what full price was offered. We will continue to investigate this matter to determine the full price of these tickets, whether that full price was, in fact, paid by the consumers, whether the airline issued tickets upon full payment, and whether the carrier raised the price after full payment was made and the tickets were issued.
As you may be aware, the Department recently issued a regulation, 14 CFR 399.88, that is intended to prevent airlines from unfairly and deceptively raising the price of a ticket after a consumer has paid in full and purchased that ticket. As stated in the regulation, such conduct would constitute a prohibited unfair and deceptive practice under a statute enacted by Congress, 49 USC 41712. The goal of our investigation is to determine whether UAL has acted unfairly or deceptively to consumers who acquired Mileage Plus Awards tickets as described above. Please note that, regardless of the outcome of our investigation, consumers are free to pursue claims (e.g., a breach of contract claim) against the airline in an appropriate civil court for monetary damages and other remedies particular to their situation.
As you may be aware, the Department recently issued a regulation, 14 CFR 399.88, that is intended to prevent airlines from unfairly and deceptively raising the price of a ticket after a consumer has paid in full and purchased that ticket. As stated in the regulation, such conduct would constitute a prohibited unfair and deceptive practice under a statute enacted by Congress, 49 USC 41712. The goal of our investigation is to determine whether UAL has acted unfairly or deceptively to consumers who acquired Mileage Plus Awards tickets as described above. Please note that, regardless of the outcome of our investigation, consumers are free to pursue claims (e.g., a breach of contract claim) against the airline in an appropriate civil court for monetary damages and other remedies particular to their situation.
#2455
Join Date: Sep 2010
Programs: Double Platinum all programs (Shh it's a secret level)
Posts: 250
Just file a complaint http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm
Quote:
This is in regard to your complaint against United Airlines (UAL) about certain Mileage Plus Award tickets to, from, or via Hong Kong that could be acquired on UAL's website between July 14 and July 15, 2012. Information that we have obtained to date from affected consumers and the airline, including screen shots taken from various steps in the booking process, reflects a discrepancy in the mileage amounts required to be paid for these tickets. More specifically, the mileage amounts, as they appeared on the website's mileage award tables, itinerary selection page and at the top of the itinerary purchase page, were significantly higher (e.g., 320,000 miles plus taxes and fees for a roundtrip ticket) than the amount displayed as the "total price" on the itinerary purchase page (i.e., four miles plus taxes and fees). In short, it is unclear what full price was offered. We will continue to investigate this matter to determine the full price of these tickets, whether that full price was, in fact, paid by the consumers, whether the airline issued tickets upon full payment, and whether the carrier raised the price after full payment was made and the tickets were issued.
As you may be aware, the Department recently issued a regulation, 14 CFR 399.88, that is intended to prevent airlines from unfairly and deceptively raising the price of a ticket after a consumer has paid in full and purchased that ticket. As stated in the regulation, such conduct would constitute a prohibited unfair and deceptive practice under a statute enacted by Congress, 49 USC 41712. The goal of our investigation is to determine whether UAL has acted unfairly or deceptively to consumers who acquired Mileage Plus Awards tickets as described above. Please note that, regardless of the outcome of our investigation, consumers are free to pursue claims (e.g., a breach of contract claim) against the airline in an appropriate civil court for monetary damages and other remedies particular to their situation.
Quote:
This is in regard to your complaint against United Airlines (UAL) about certain Mileage Plus Award tickets to, from, or via Hong Kong that could be acquired on UAL's website between July 14 and July 15, 2012. Information that we have obtained to date from affected consumers and the airline, including screen shots taken from various steps in the booking process, reflects a discrepancy in the mileage amounts required to be paid for these tickets. More specifically, the mileage amounts, as they appeared on the website's mileage award tables, itinerary selection page and at the top of the itinerary purchase page, were significantly higher (e.g., 320,000 miles plus taxes and fees for a roundtrip ticket) than the amount displayed as the "total price" on the itinerary purchase page (i.e., four miles plus taxes and fees). In short, it is unclear what full price was offered. We will continue to investigate this matter to determine the full price of these tickets, whether that full price was, in fact, paid by the consumers, whether the airline issued tickets upon full payment, and whether the carrier raised the price after full payment was made and the tickets were issued.
As you may be aware, the Department recently issued a regulation, 14 CFR 399.88, that is intended to prevent airlines from unfairly and deceptively raising the price of a ticket after a consumer has paid in full and purchased that ticket. As stated in the regulation, such conduct would constitute a prohibited unfair and deceptive practice under a statute enacted by Congress, 49 USC 41712. The goal of our investigation is to determine whether UAL has acted unfairly or deceptively to consumers who acquired Mileage Plus Awards tickets as described above. Please note that, regardless of the outcome of our investigation, consumers are free to pursue claims (e.g., a breach of contract claim) against the airline in an appropriate civil court for monetary damages and other remedies particular to their situation.
I'll wait a few days, send a demand letter to United, then decide which court to file in. I wish a class action would make it easier for me.
#2456
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,835
I never thought I'd say this, but is it possible every conceivable thing to say on this subject has already been said in this thread?
I wonder...
I wonder...
#2457
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 563
Because UA wouldn't have made a move like this if they didn't know what would happen. There is no way DOT will force them to give $100M worth of tickets away for free. This isn't a passenger rights issue and you know it. Some of the rationalization here is hilarious "maybe it could have been a 4 mile per ticket promotion" .
I am very happy that UA cancelled all the tickets because how do you think they would try to get that $100M expense back?
I am very happy that UA cancelled all the tickets because how do you think they would try to get that $100M expense back?
#2459
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1.5 Million Mile flyer, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Gold, Hertz 5* and PC since 1985
Posts: 5,611
#2460
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,394