UA mistake award redemption rates for China travel [UA says will void tickets]
Jul 16, 2012, 11:23 am
#421
Formerly known as fsa_ea
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS/1MM,AS 75k,NK GLD,AA 2MM,DL 2MM,LH FT,AY PLT,IC RA,FMT LT PLT,HYT GLB,HLT DIA,MRT GLD,HRTZ PC
Posts: 2,230
What a terrible analogy. Knowingly taking money from a malfunctioning ATM is probably theft, since that money BELONGS to someone. It could another depositor's money or the bank's, but nobody (including the government, theoretically), gets free money.
Buying seats for 4 miles? That's entirely different. Airlines can print as many miles as they want, and as long as the miles are used for redeeming seats that would otherwise go empty, printing those miles don't "cost" the airline anything, and can earn extremely valuable loyalty. I don't even think airlines have to account for issued FF miles on their financial statements (but I could be wrong).
Airlines fly seats without making money all the time. Award seats, employee seats, other non-revs, goodwill, etc. This fare is a lot of things, but it ain't anywhere near the same as taking money from a malfunctioning ATM. Or driving off the lot with a Hyundai.
Buying seats for 4 miles? That's entirely different. Airlines can print as many miles as they want, and as long as the miles are used for redeeming seats that would otherwise go empty, printing those miles don't "cost" the airline anything, and can earn extremely valuable loyalty. I don't even think airlines have to account for issued FF miles on their financial statements (but I could be wrong).
Airlines fly seats without making money all the time. Award seats, employee seats, other non-revs, goodwill, etc. This fare is a lot of things, but it ain't anywhere near the same as taking money from a malfunctioning ATM. Or driving off the lot with a Hyundai.
To call this a "purchase" for 4 miles is ridiculous.
Jul 16, 2012, 11:24 am
#422
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,259
By the way, notice it was the airlines that pushed for federal preemption of state laws here. They can't very well now seek protection of state laws from DOT regulation!
In the early 1980s a number of airline companies obtained a federal court order in Texas that prevented California and 33 other states from bringing any action against the airlines for deceptive acts, false advertising or unfair business practices.
The Attorney General's Office argued that a Texas federal court had no jurisdiction over states other than Texas. In addition, this office argued that Congress had never intended to prevent the states from utilizing their false advertising statutes against airlines. However, the Federal Appeals Court disagreed and held that airlines were exempt from state false advertising laws. We are prohibited from bringing any action against airlines for deceptive practices or false advertising.
If you feel that you have been a victim of consumer fraud or deception by the actions of a particular airline, you should contact the United States Department of Transportation:
United States Department of Transportation
Aviation Consumer Protection Division
400 7th Street, S.W.
Washington D.C. 20590
Phone: (202) 366-2220
website: airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/problems.htm
Also, you may wish to contact your congressional representatives to notify them of your concerns and problems in regard to this particular industry. To contact your representatives, go to: Senate.gov and House.gov.
The Attorney General's Office argued that a Texas federal court had no jurisdiction over states other than Texas. In addition, this office argued that Congress had never intended to prevent the states from utilizing their false advertising statutes against airlines. However, the Federal Appeals Court disagreed and held that airlines were exempt from state false advertising laws. We are prohibited from bringing any action against airlines for deceptive practices or false advertising.
If you feel that you have been a victim of consumer fraud or deception by the actions of a particular airline, you should contact the United States Department of Transportation:
United States Department of Transportation
Aviation Consumer Protection Division
400 7th Street, S.W.
Washington D.C. 20590
Phone: (202) 366-2220
website: airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/problems.htm
Also, you may wish to contact your congressional representatives to notify them of your concerns and problems in regard to this particular industry. To contact your representatives, go to: Senate.gov and House.gov.
Jul 16, 2012, 11:30 am
#425
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: US Silver, UA Plat, HHonors Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 212
A little bit off the track but anyone in the same situation?
I got ticketed on QR metal to HKG next May/June, which is kinda impossible according to UA's termination of the partnership, however IT IS TICKETED in UA bucket.
So, can I get a ride from QR even if the party is finally honored? LOL
Dennis
I got ticketed on QR metal to HKG next May/June, which is kinda impossible according to UA's termination of the partnership, however IT IS TICKETED in UA bucket.
So, can I get a ride from QR even if the party is finally honored? LOL
Dennis
You ticket by 9/14/12 for travel within 1 year.
Jul 16, 2012, 11:30 am
#426
Join Date: Oct 2010
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 83
Jul 16, 2012, 11:31 am
#427
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CLT
Programs: US CP, SPG Gold
Posts: 596
Maybe China in this poster's opinion means mainland China, not HKG.
Jul 16, 2012, 11:31 am
#428
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: WN A-list, Hyatt Glob, HH DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 438
Miles are currency. It doesn't matter who owns them, you can use them as a medium of exchange to buy flights.
They belonged to UA BEFORE the purchase. After the purchase, the Issued ticket belongs to the purchaser.
They belonged to UA BEFORE the purchase. After the purchase, the Issued ticket belongs to the purchaser.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 16, 2012 at 12:35 pm Reason: merge
Jul 16, 2012, 11:33 am
#429
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
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Posts: 10,200
I'm convinced that there might be some on West Wacker Drive who see a good opportunity in this to help 'make amends' with frequent flyers, many of whom have been disgruntled since March. Less the people who bought a bazillion roundtrips, UA isn't losing a significant amount of money on these tickets, provided they're on UA metal. They're out the opportunity cost of those first class seats, of course, but what's the likelihood that they'd be filled anyway?
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I don't judge those that went for it, but UA has real problems to make amends for including the inability to keep my mileage account accurate or show why my balance keeps changing, horrible irrops, customer service failures, stranding passenger for days, shifting seat assignments, increasing schedule failures....need I go on?
I know some want to keep these tickets, and fine for that, but do not extrapolate this out to think this addresses anything beyond a horrific pricing error.
Jul 16, 2012, 11:34 am
#430
Join Date: Oct 2010
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 83
I don't think it makes up for any of that, but next time I'm experiencing any of the aforementioned UA issues, it'd be nice to know that sometimes their screw ups (or mistakes) can result in something beneficial/fun for us consumers.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 16, 2012 at 12:36 pm Reason: merge
Jul 16, 2012, 11:38 am
#431
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
call me an Idiot but I saw this thread and said Id rather be in E+ on an ElCheapo earning the EQMs then flying it for free in F or C.
I guess COs CS dept will now be back to 3/5 5 hrs wait time as they sort all of this out.
And yes I feel bad for those folks who would have either used the proper amount of miles for a tkt and now cant find 1 seat available or those who wanted to use a GPU or Miles & copay to UP and all ofa sudden find Nothing is available anytime
To an extent CO dserves it after what they have been doing to us But on the other hand how woud you feel if you didnt know about this and today or in the next few days you went to make a legit res only to find Everything is 0ed out?
Im happy I decided to sit this 1 out
I guess COs CS dept will now be back to 3/5 5 hrs wait time as they sort all of this out.
And yes I feel bad for those folks who would have either used the proper amount of miles for a tkt and now cant find 1 seat available or those who wanted to use a GPU or Miles & copay to UP and all ofa sudden find Nothing is available anytime
To an extent CO dserves it after what they have been doing to us But on the other hand how woud you feel if you didnt know about this and today or in the next few days you went to make a legit res only to find Everything is 0ed out?
Im happy I decided to sit this 1 out
Jul 16, 2012, 11:38 am
#432
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 35
my ticket still says reserved and hasn't been ticketed yet...any chance this will get ticketed?
(hoping these tickets get honored
)
(hoping these tickets get honored
)
Jul 16, 2012, 11:40 am
#433
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,763
Apparently <10 people have booked successful US-China tickets this way, insider info.
Jul 16, 2012, 11:40 am
#434
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YHU
Posts: 77
The guys do have a valid ground to forbid drinking at work...
Jul 16, 2012, 11:51 am
#435
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: United 1K & AA Exec Plat
Posts: 87
Patience
I have no patience, I'm loosing my patience, how much longer will I have to wait to hear the line I want to hear "Yes, we will honor"