Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Mar 7, 2013, 11:31 am
#811
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
Thanks for replying, alex_b.
Indeed, transit in a Japanese airport would be necessary to get to KMQ, CTS or OKA (at least coming from the US), but I'm unfamiliar with the tag-on option. Have you done this before? In other words, as long as I book for example, JFK-NRT, I can call and the agent will tack on the domestic Japanese leg? Would that then incur extra fees (based on airline status/extra tax)?
Indeed, transit in a Japanese airport would be necessary to get to KMQ, CTS or OKA (at least coming from the US), but I'm unfamiliar with the tag-on option. Have you done this before? In other words, as long as I book for example, JFK-NRT, I can call and the agent will tack on the domestic Japanese leg? Would that then incur extra fees (based on airline status/extra tax)?
One extra thought. You should use the ANA tool (search the forums) to check availability on the domestic legs and have the flight numbers ready when you call in.
Last edited by alex_b; Mar 7, 2013 at 11:50 am Reason: Added last paragraph
Mar 7, 2013, 11:47 am
#812
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
My pleasure. Have a great trip!
Mar 7, 2013, 2:48 pm
#813
formerly known as Tad's Broiled Steaks
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,412
Yes it will work. Call within 24hrs and you wont be charged any change fees or phone fees. You may well incur extra taxes which you can estimate by doing a dummy booking of the domestic legs on ITA or any other online booking site; I can't imagine 2x Japanese domestic departure taxes will add up to much though.
One extra thought. You should use the ANA tool (search the forums) to check availability on the domestic legs and have the flight numbers ready when you call in.
One extra thought. You should use the ANA tool (search the forums) to check availability on the domestic legs and have the flight numbers ready when you call in.
There will be no charges within 24 hours because it would have already been booked? Guess I've been lucky up 'til now, seeing as previous award bookings (that were less convoluted than a "one way to Japan") were made online without a hitch.
Ideally, I'd get to KMQ, CTS and OKA all on one award trip, but I'm not sure how to effectively roll with that plan.
Mar 7, 2013, 3:24 pm
#814
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
Thanks again.
There will be no charges within 24 hours because it would have already been booked? Guess I've been lucky up 'til now, seeing as previous award bookings (that were less convoluted than a "one way to Japan") were made online without a hitch.
Ideally, I'd get to KMQ, CTS and OKA all on one award trip, but I'm not sure how to effectively roll with that plan.
There will be no charges within 24 hours because it would have already been booked? Guess I've been lucky up 'til now, seeing as previous award bookings (that were less convoluted than a "one way to Japan") were made online without a hitch.
Ideally, I'd get to KMQ, CTS and OKA all on one award trip, but I'm not sure how to effectively roll with that plan.
As for hitting all of the stops, you'll need to have an open jaw and a stopover. The *A route map is playing up as it says there is a route CTS-OKA but not the other way round and I see reports of KMQ-CTS but can't find it!
You could try something like:
USA-TYO-KMQ (you'll need to cross Tokyo NRT-HND so perhaps stay overnight as <24hrs doesn't count as a stop). KMQ counts as your destination and open jaw
Make your own arrangements KMQ-CTS (fly or train but this is a long trip)
CTS-OKA (this is your stopover)
OKA-NRT-USA
To book this online try and book USA-KMQ and OKA-USA using multi city and then phone to fix.
Mar 7, 2013, 10:27 pm
#815
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,438
Trying to help a friend book award travel (he's a general member) in Saver Y.
He wants to do:
ORD-LHR
LHR-FLR
FCO-ORD
the segment that's giving him the problem on united.com and a couple of agents is the LHR-FLR leg (which connects in frankfurt). Doesn't LHR count as a stopover in this case? United.com isn't showing any availability for the LHR-FLR leg, but EF does and so does united.com if we try searching as a separate one way.
This seems a rather straightforward example of a stopover on the outbound and one open jaw. Am I missing something?
He wants to do:
ORD-LHR
LHR-FLR
FCO-ORD
the segment that's giving him the problem on united.com and a couple of agents is the LHR-FLR leg (which connects in frankfurt). Doesn't LHR count as a stopover in this case? United.com isn't showing any availability for the LHR-FLR leg, but EF does and so does united.com if we try searching as a separate one way.
This seems a rather straightforward example of a stopover on the outbound and one open jaw. Am I missing something?
Mar 7, 2013, 10:43 pm
#816
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
Trying to help a friend book award travel (he's a general member) in Saver Y.
He wants to do:
ORD-LHR
LHR-FLR
FCO-ORD
the segment that's giving him the problem on united.com and a couple of agents is the LHR-FLR leg (which connects in frankfurt). Doesn't LHR count as a stopover in this case? United.com isn't showing any availability for the LHR-FLR leg, but EF does and so does united.com if we try searching as a separate one way.
This seems a rather straightforward example of a stopover on the outbound and one open jaw. Am I missing something?
He wants to do:
ORD-LHR
LHR-FLR
FCO-ORD
the segment that's giving him the problem on united.com and a couple of agents is the LHR-FLR leg (which connects in frankfurt). Doesn't LHR count as a stopover in this case? United.com isn't showing any availability for the LHR-FLR leg, but EF does and so does united.com if we try searching as a separate one way.
This seems a rather straightforward example of a stopover on the outbound and one open jaw. Am I missing something?
I'm guessing the LHR-FRA-FLR legs are on LH. How are you searching on EF? I believe certain methods on EF search LH M&M inventory directly which is not available to those using UA Miles. You need to search *A in general, not LH specifically when using EF.
Mar 8, 2013, 5:08 am
#817
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
Trying to help a friend book award travel (he's a general member) in Saver Y.
He wants to do:
ORD-LHR
LHR-FLR
FCO-ORD
the segment that's giving him the problem on united.com and a couple of agents is the LHR-FLR leg (which connects in frankfurt). Doesn't LHR count as a stopover in this case? United.com isn't showing any availability for the LHR-FLR leg, but EF does and so does united.com if we try searching as a separate one way.
This seems a rather straightforward example of a stopover on the outbound and one open jaw. Am I missing something?
He wants to do:
ORD-LHR
LHR-FLR
FCO-ORD
the segment that's giving him the problem on united.com and a couple of agents is the LHR-FLR leg (which connects in frankfurt). Doesn't LHR count as a stopover in this case? United.com isn't showing any availability for the LHR-FLR leg, but EF does and so does united.com if we try searching as a separate one way.
This seems a rather straightforward example of a stopover on the outbound and one open jaw. Am I missing something?
Mar 8, 2013, 6:43 am
#818
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Sort-haul Air Passenger Duty for UK departures is low (£13 in Y/£26 in J, going up a couple of quid next month). It's only when the capital of the destination country is over 2000 miles from London (or Russia east of the Urals) that the higher rates start to kick in. If doing a stopover in the UK, it's definitely best to do it on the way to the continent rather than on the way back. If trying between the US and Asia, it's probably better to do it on the way back, since the APD rates to much of Asia are one band up from the US rates
Mar 8, 2013, 6:45 am
#819
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,438
If the stop in LHR is more than 24 hours, it is the stopover, which is allowed, but I think it is going to severely drive up the taxes.
I'm guessing the LHR-FRA-FLR legs are on LH. How are you searching on EF? I believe certain methods on EF search LH M&M inventory directly which is not available to those using UA Miles. You need to search *A in general, not LH specifically when using EF.
I'm guessing the LHR-FRA-FLR legs are on LH. How are you searching on EF? I believe certain methods on EF search LH M&M inventory directly which is not available to those using UA Miles. You need to search *A in general, not LH specifically when using EF.
He was thinking about doing LHR-NAP instead, and even in this example it came up with a flight (indicating this is all legal) but that had only a 25 minute connection in MUC. It wouldn't show the option, which also showed availability separately, with a 2 hour connection.
I'm guessing this is related to the strange LH pricing mentioned earlier in this thread so for now he booked the outbound to LHR and return from FCO and will call and try to add the last segment.
Mar 8, 2013, 9:44 am
#820
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,900
Will I get any miles back if I cancel a open jaw segment on award ticket?
Itinerary looks like the following:
Origin->Stopover (7-10 days)
Stopover->Destination
(open jaw) Point1->Point2
Point2 is not the same as Origin and Point1 is not the same as Destination.
Reservation system allows to book such itinerary. The last segment is planned to take place way later then first two and I might need to cancel it.
What are chances to get miles for the last segment back?
Itinerary looks like the following:
Origin->Stopover (7-10 days)
Stopover->Destination
(open jaw) Point1->Point2
Point2 is not the same as Origin and Point1 is not the same as Destination.
Reservation system allows to book such itinerary. The last segment is planned to take place way later then first two and I might need to cancel it.
What are chances to get miles for the last segment back?
Mar 8, 2013, 9:54 am
#821
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
The rules say no:
And if you booked as two one ways you wouldn't get the stopover and open jaw you're trying to use. Depending on the regions involved you might be able to get it repriced such that removing the last segment gets you some miles and taxes back, but may also incur fees.
If you redeem a roundtrip award and only travel one-way, the unused portion of the award will be forfeited.
Mar 8, 2013, 11:55 am
#822
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 887
Is this valid? Any issues with backtracking through BKK?
ORD-PEK-BKK-KBV (stopover)
KBV-BKK-AMD (destination -- new BKK-AMD route announced!)
AMD-BKK-PEK-ORD
ORD-PEK-BKK-KBV (stopover)
KBV-BKK-AMD (destination -- new BKK-AMD route announced!)
AMD-BKK-PEK-ORD
Mar 8, 2013, 11:58 am
#823
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 887
Thanks for the response.
I can't seem to manipulate and build the framework well, since I've now decided that I want to use my stopover in STL and buy the JTR-CDG flight.
Bear with me for a few rookie questions:
Can I build IAD-JTR (that shows up) and CDG-IAD (that shows up), get a PNR record locator, call and add STL-IAD on the outbound, IAD-STL on the inbound, and my stopover (STL-PBI), without any fees? Is there a risk of not being able to add the other legs and being stuck with a bad booking?
OR Is it possible to avoid the $25 booking fee by simply calling and stating that my flights aren't showing up in the multi-city search?
I can't seem to manipulate and build the framework well, since I've now decided that I want to use my stopover in STL and buy the JTR-CDG flight.
Bear with me for a few rookie questions:
Can I build IAD-JTR (that shows up) and CDG-IAD (that shows up), get a PNR record locator, call and add STL-IAD on the outbound, IAD-STL on the inbound, and my stopover (STL-PBI), without any fees? Is there a risk of not being able to add the other legs and being stuck with a bad booking?
OR Is it possible to avoid the $25 booking fee by simply calling and stating that my flights aren't showing up in the multi-city search?
2) Waiving the fee will likely not work simply because flights not showing up online.
Mar 8, 2013, 12:21 pm
#824
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
An award booking service fee of $25 per person will apply to all bookings made over the phone, regardless of whether it is possible to be booked at united.com.
Mar 8, 2013, 12:55 pm
#825
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SJC/SFO
Programs: SPG Plat
Posts: 1,017
Curious, has anyone had a itinerary that had a premier agent have to transfer it to her supervisor who then had to transfer you to web support who then had to transfer you to his supervisor?
Damn, just trying to book a RT with one stopover and one open jaw
ZRH-TUS (stopover)
TUS-OGG(destination)
HNL-ZRH (return open jaw)
First problem was premier desk not showing HA availability on HNL-OGG leg to destination, though she can see it on ua.com???
Escalated to supervisor, she can’t get it, so off to web support I go.
Web support agent tells me I’m trying to book 3 one-ways. I calmly explain I’m doing a RT with one stopover and one OJ. He tells me this is not permitted with a one-way (now banging my head on keyboard).
Off to web support supervisor we go.
Web sup comes on, understands what I’m doing but tells me my GF LHR-IAH saver is gone now….
One hour and 26 minutes I’m still on phone….
Damn, just trying to book a RT with one stopover and one open jaw
ZRH-TUS (stopover)
TUS-OGG(destination)
HNL-ZRH (return open jaw)
First problem was premier desk not showing HA availability on HNL-OGG leg to destination, though she can see it on ua.com???
Escalated to supervisor, she can’t get it, so off to web support I go.
Web support agent tells me I’m trying to book 3 one-ways. I calmly explain I’m doing a RT with one stopover and one OJ. He tells me this is not permitted with a one-way (now banging my head on keyboard).
Off to web support supervisor we go.
Web sup comes on, understands what I’m doing but tells me my GF LHR-IAH saver is gone now….
One hour and 26 minutes I’m still on phone….