Dulles to Moscow on UA – the ULTIMATE double EQM run – right now anyway!
Apr 28, 2009, 3:31 pm
#107
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
Interestingly enough, the Russian authorities didn't even blink twice as we went through the transit area and through transit security screening. All they seemed interested in was that you had in your possession a boarding pass showing onward progression (presumably for within the 24 hour window).
What's equally confusing is that every single visa service company website is stating the following:
"Note: if you are on a direct flight through the territory of Russia or travel by international airline and change flights in the same airport within 24 hours, you do not need a visa."
What's equally confusing is that every single visa service company website is stating the following:
"Note: if you are on a direct flight through the territory of Russia or travel by international airline and change flights in the same airport within 24 hours, you do not need a visa."
I wonder how old this information is vs. how old DME is. I can imagine an airport layout where you'd have to clear some kind of passport check even if you were only transiting through the airport (e.g., the U.S.). Maybe you couldn't do a same-day turn at SVO without a visa but you can at DME...
Apr 28, 2009, 3:59 pm
#108
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,484
May 1, 2009, 9:59 am
#110
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,039
May 1, 2009, 4:05 pm
#111
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: UA 1K 3MM Lifetime, AA PlatPro,Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 741
http://www.russianembassy.net/iservi...t=50&Expand=16
Last edited by edsh; May 1, 2009 at 4:10 pm
May 4, 2009, 4:51 am
#112
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
WRITE .. never email on such matters.
I wrote on letterhead, with a 42c stamp, re the 3 superb FA's ... to Glenn Tilton at Elk Grove and got back the following.
As promised, I wrote to UA CEO Glenn Tilton on my crew on the DME-IAD flight (that others above have had since!) and of course Tilton never sees such things but underlings pretty high up the food chain DO!
===============
Dear ozstamps:
I am responding to your correspondence addressed to Mr. Tilton. I wanted to get back to you via the quickest method, so I’ve taken the liberty to respond using the e-mail address you provided us in your Mileage Plus account.
Thank you for complimenting the three senior crew members on our flight UA 965 from Moscow to Washington Dulles on April 5th.
We certainly appreciated the opportunity to serve you and are delighted by your comments.
The individuals you recognized and their supervisors will receive copies of your great praise.
You are a 1K member, one of our most valued customers. Thank you for your continued support and loyalty to United Airlines.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx
Customer Relations Manager
Chicago
May 6, 2009, 8:50 am
#113
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,039
Final Verdict
Well, for those that care, here's the end to my saga:
Over the past weeks I have spoken to lord knows how many UA folks in writing and via telephone.
Unfortunately, Mileage Plus will not credit miles for flights unflown unless it's due to some sort of irrops. Period. No exceptions. No way I was getting the miles. Been told this multiple times now.
I FINALLY got through to a WONDERFUL, sympathetic, kind and patient service director in the Customer Relations office in Chicago.
I spent almost an hour on the phone with her while she spoke to all sorts of people about my issue. At my request she called IAD and spoke to one Terry Collins who is supposedly a service director authority over there. Apparently, United has been fined AT LEAST three times since April 22nd for letting people on to DME flights without proper visa requirements. At $10,000 a pop, the service director at IAD was NOT happy.
Anyways, the sd understood mileage runs, and understood timaticweb, and understood the situation, and apologized profusely for not being able to credit me the miles. She issued me a voucher to cover the change fee I will have to pay to reuse the ticket. So I am not out any money, only time.
Bottom line:
Am I thrilled with this outcome? No. But the SD was SO INCREDIBLY gracious and helpful yesterday, that I am happy enough, and I am putting this behind me.
Over the past weeks I have spoken to lord knows how many UA folks in writing and via telephone.
Unfortunately, Mileage Plus will not credit miles for flights unflown unless it's due to some sort of irrops. Period. No exceptions. No way I was getting the miles. Been told this multiple times now.
I FINALLY got through to a WONDERFUL, sympathetic, kind and patient service director in the Customer Relations office in Chicago.
I spent almost an hour on the phone with her while she spoke to all sorts of people about my issue. At my request she called IAD and spoke to one Terry Collins who is supposedly a service director authority over there. Apparently, United has been fined AT LEAST three times since April 22nd for letting people on to DME flights without proper visa requirements. At $10,000 a pop, the service director at IAD was NOT happy.
Anyways, the sd understood mileage runs, and understood timaticweb, and understood the situation, and apologized profusely for not being able to credit me the miles. She issued me a voucher to cover the change fee I will have to pay to reuse the ticket. So I am not out any money, only time.
Bottom line:
- If you were able to pull off this run, consider yourself lucky
- Perception is reality: We know the rules allow this kind of turn. UA is not interpreting the rules that way
- Unless you're going to do this run originating from IAD, don't bother
- I will likely be a Premier Executive next year
Am I thrilled with this outcome? No. But the SD was SO INCREDIBLY gracious and helpful yesterday, that I am happy enough, and I am putting this behind me.
May 6, 2009, 9:13 am
#114
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
g_leyser ... wow, sorry to hear that's how it panned out.
I always like to put those kind of things in writing in the first instance to WHQ, but that's just personal preference.
One thing is that they then need to reply in writing and a reply saying:
"We agree you complied entirely to the letter with our own TIMATIC guidelines re Russian transit visa requirements. However we are still refusing you boarding to and from Moscow, and the miles you would get as a result. Despite us being aware of 100s of others who did precisely what we are telling you now cannot do, and who took their flights before and after we told you were given the miles, and were boarded with no issues" ..... would have them cut to pieces if the media got hold of it.
The UA hating www.untied.com would make that letter front page. @:-)
I still think a formal letter to WHQ might still work .. and greatly praising the effort that staffer XXX made, but asking if a staffer at WHQ with more seniority might take a look on your behalf as a long term 1K etc, etc .. who has complied to the LETTER with all rules and requirements.
Glen
I always like to put those kind of things in writing in the first instance to WHQ, but that's just personal preference.
One thing is that they then need to reply in writing and a reply saying:
"We agree you complied entirely to the letter with our own TIMATIC guidelines re Russian transit visa requirements. However we are still refusing you boarding to and from Moscow, and the miles you would get as a result. Despite us being aware of 100s of others who did precisely what we are telling you now cannot do, and who took their flights before and after we told you were given the miles, and were boarded with no issues" ..... would have them cut to pieces if the media got hold of it.
The UA hating www.untied.com would make that letter front page. @:-)
I still think a formal letter to WHQ might still work .. and greatly praising the effort that staffer XXX made, but asking if a staffer at WHQ with more seniority might take a look on your behalf as a long term 1K etc, etc .. who has complied to the LETTER with all rules and requirements.
Glen
May 6, 2009, 9:14 am
#115
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ATL/MOO (Many Others Often)
Programs: DL GM (2MM), Lifetime Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 2,456
Never done it myself and by having a ME Visa I won't need to but I do know the infrastructure is there to allow it. Hopefully, when/if SVO3 gets up and going they'll have a FT MR Express Line!
May 6, 2009, 1:32 pm
#116
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
Well, for those that care, here's the end to my saga:
Over the past weeks I have spoken to lord knows how many UA folks in writing and via telephone.
Unfortunately, Mileage Plus will not credit miles for flights unflown unless it's due to some sort of irrops. Period. No exceptions. No way I was getting the miles. Been told this multiple times now.
I FINALLY got through to a WONDERFUL, sympathetic, kind and patient service director in the Customer Relations office in Chicago.
I spent almost an hour on the phone with her while she spoke to all sorts of people about my issue. At my request she called IAD and spoke to one Terry Collins who is supposedly a service director authority over there. Apparently, United has been fined AT LEAST three times since April 22nd for letting people on to DME flights without proper visa requirements. At $10,000 a pop, the service director at IAD was NOT happy.
Anyways, the sd understood mileage runs, and understood timaticweb, and understood the situation, and apologized profusely for not being able to credit me the miles. She issued me a voucher to cover the change fee I will have to pay to reuse the ticket. So I am not out any money, only time.
Bottom line:
Am I thrilled with this outcome? No. But the SD was SO INCREDIBLY gracious and helpful yesterday, that I am happy enough, and I am putting this behind me.
Over the past weeks I have spoken to lord knows how many UA folks in writing and via telephone.
Unfortunately, Mileage Plus will not credit miles for flights unflown unless it's due to some sort of irrops. Period. No exceptions. No way I was getting the miles. Been told this multiple times now.
I FINALLY got through to a WONDERFUL, sympathetic, kind and patient service director in the Customer Relations office in Chicago.
I spent almost an hour on the phone with her while she spoke to all sorts of people about my issue. At my request she called IAD and spoke to one Terry Collins who is supposedly a service director authority over there. Apparently, United has been fined AT LEAST three times since April 22nd for letting people on to DME flights without proper visa requirements. At $10,000 a pop, the service director at IAD was NOT happy.
Anyways, the sd understood mileage runs, and understood timaticweb, and understood the situation, and apologized profusely for not being able to credit me the miles. She issued me a voucher to cover the change fee I will have to pay to reuse the ticket. So I am not out any money, only time.
Bottom line:
- If you were able to pull off this run, consider yourself lucky
- Perception is reality: We know the rules allow this kind of turn. UA is not interpreting the rules that way
- Unless you're going to do this run originating from IAD, don't bother
- I will likely be a Premier Executive next year
Am I thrilled with this outcome? No. But the SD was SO INCREDIBLY gracious and helpful yesterday, that I am happy enough, and I am putting this behind me.
.The more I think about what happened to you, the more ridiculous it seems to me. If I read between the lines of your post correctly, UA acknowledges that you did comply with visa requirements but is sticking to the party line that they don't give miles unless you fly. This is insulting and flatly bogus. We know that miles -- with or without EQMs -- can and have been given to FTers in non-Irrops situations. We know that all kinds of exceptions can and are made when necessary. I mean, if there were ever a reason for a "one time exception," this is surely it: You bought a ticket in good faith, met the visa requirements, were denied boarding by improperly informed UA personnel. As far as I'm concerned, you were IDBd...period.
I'm glad you feel the higher-ups handled you with care, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be
.
May 6, 2009, 1:45 pm
#117
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,039
The more I think about what happened to you, the more ridiculous it seems to me. If I read between the lines of your post correctly, UA acknowledges that you did comply with visa requirements but is sticking to the party line that they don't give miles unless you fly. This is insulting and flatly bogus. We know that miles -- with or without EQMs -- can and have been given to FTers in non-Irrops situations. We know that all kinds of exceptions can and are made when necessary. I mean, if there were ever a reason for a "one time exception," this is surely it: You bought a ticket in good faith, met the visa requirements, were denied boarding by improperly informed UA personnel. As far as I'm concerned, you were IDBd...period.
Is this complete and utter horsesh!t? Of course!! But as I said, perception is reality. It doesn't matter what the rule actually is. The only thing that matters is how UA interprets it. The customer is always wrong.
I'm glad you feel the higher-ups handled you with care, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be .
.
I will go back to being a 1P and being envious of all of you waltzing down the red carpet.
May 6, 2009, 1:49 pm
#118
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
No, they are NOT in any way acknowledging that I did comply with the visa requirements. On the contrary, I have been told over and over and over again that nobody should board a DME flight without a visa, PERIOD. Anybody who did in the past (i.e. at least half a dozen FTers) was in clear violation of the rules in United's eyes, and should never have been allowed to do it.
Is this complete and utter horsesh!t? Of course!! But as I said, perception is reality. It doesn't matter what the rule actually is. The only thing that matters is how UA interprets it. The customer is always wrong.
Is this complete and utter horsesh!t? Of course!! But as I said, perception is reality. It doesn't matter what the rule actually is. The only thing that matters is how UA interprets it. The customer is always wrong.
May 7, 2009, 12:35 am
#120
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,911
I still think a formal letter to WHQ might still work .. and greatly praising the effort that staffer XXX made, but asking if a staffer at WHQ with more seniority might take a look on your behalf as a long term 1K etc, etc .. who has complied to the LETTER with all rules and requirements.
Glen
Glen
Last edited by azepine00; May 7, 2009 at 12:40 am