worldtraveller73

New York continued

Even amid the beautiful parks, the city never ceases to amaze. NYC is really a photographer’s dream. Beautiful architecture, and the majestic nature of the Brooklyn Bridge, all add up to inspiring sights.




































As always, Little Italy had great restaurants. Nearby Soho also had some great shopping. It would be more accurate to report that MrsWT73 did some damage here with shopping, while I hung out outside and watched the world go by taking in the wonderful view as we wandered south toward the Staten Island ferries.































Overall, NYC is easy on the camera lens. There's so much to see and do here. There's lots to keep you entertained and thankfully, for the most part, we had good weather.

platbrownguy

Your trip report is wonderful. I'm thrilled to have secured seats on JFK-HKG-JFK in CX F next month for very few US DividendMiles and very little $. I can't wait.

That said, your comments have incited me to rant. So here I go.

There are not two sides, and there is no argument: anything less than a 15% tip for average service is unacceptable (and that's putting it really, really nicely). If you have the resources to travel in CX F, then you can tip an extra five dollars to a waiter who is just doing his job and relies on your tips as part of his expected wage.

There is no valor in being a cheapskate. You conceded that you received average service, yet you're attempting to justify a pretax 12% tip (also, whoever invented this whole tipping-on-the-pretax-total charade is a cheapskate, too). If you hadn't said you travelled regularly to the US, I wouldn't be ranting, but you did, so I am. After all, you might well have undertipped any of my friends who happen to be waiting tables on the side in NYC or Washington DC. Please stop. Tipping well not only helps your servers pay their bills, but it helps them have better days (they may not hug you over a 25% tip, but they'll get justifiably upset over a 12% tip, and why would you want to be the cause of that)--and it also pays dividends in the form of better treatment at any establishment where you happen to have made yourself a "regular."

As for substandard food, you should not take that out on the waiter. His job is to bring it to you, not to prepare it. If it's not hot enough or good enough, send it back. If he balks or is rude (i.e., fails to provide at least average service), then perhaps you have cause to reduce a tip--although the civilized route would surely be simply to ask for a manager and see about his making things right, both as to the food issues and as to service.

Your meal was forgettable. That's great. So are the vast majority of the meals I eat. The folks who put the plates in front of me still get at least 20% (rounded up, usually). And the folks who I know work hard to remember customers' names, favorite drinks, and life details get 30, 40, or more if it's a small tab. Next time you have a $13 drink, instead of multiplying by 1.12, just leave a $20?

offerendum

I don`t know this place - what is it?

P.S. Great Pictures, really enjoyed them

Frequent_Flyer1

I do agree in general with your post, if going to the US one should be aware of this specific "tipping-culture-etiquette". One may not agree with this, but nevertheless...

However, I strongly have to oppose your last paragraph. If my meal is fortgettable, then this will also have an impact on my tipping (and yes, I'll then revert back to the pre-tax-amount and tip 15-20% on that, depending on the waiter in general); but quality of food and service has to be linked in a restaurant IMHO. But to be honest, if most of my meals are fortgettable, then I would change my restaurant selection...

And your example of leaving $20 for a $13 cerainly does seem a little bit excessive, doesn't it? You can only argue this case if you're a regular at a place and want to be "remembered" respectively taken care of.

GodAtum

For me, the min tip is 15% for bad service. For good service it goes up to around 20%.

I am looking forward to seeing your photos of the 9/11 memorial.

CMK10

I think that's Chelsea Market on 9th Avenue.

Duke787

Great TR as always. I've stayed at most of the SPG properties in NYC and I really like the Westin Grand Central but the location is a real pain depending on where in Manhattan you're visiting / working.

In terms of tip - the waiter was entirely out of line. I hate that 15 - 20% has become so ingrained in US society and come to be expected. If you didn't do 15 - 20% worth of service you don't deserve it and if the restaurant feels otherwise they should just automatically tack 18% on the bill and say so up front.

There is no excuse for a waiter getting upset over a 12% tip if they didn't provide top service. I'm sorry if the waiter has a problem with it they can either improve their service or take it up with their restaurant for higher wages. The tipping culture here in the US is insane (I say that who was born and raised in the US and has lived here my whole life except for my semester abroad in London a few years ago). Leaving $20 for a $13 is insane as well (both the cost of the drink and a $7 dollar tip for someone picking up a drink and walking 20 feet with it to where I'm sitting).

roastpuff

The other flights should have caviar still, but no more salmon with the caviar.
I think he was confused by the spelling of Ermenegildo Zegna, which is quite the tricky first name to spell.

And I agree - the US tipping culture is just silly and inane. Good service I will usually tip 20%. Bad service I will tip 10% or less. 15% for average service. No more, no less. Tipping is an extra appreciation on the part of the patron - it should not be calculated into the wage of the server, hence that rule in the USA is very stupid and short-sighted on the business owners. Tipping should not be how the majority of your income is made.

arlflyer

The tipping thing has the potential to eat up this entire thread, unfortunately, and sadly I'm about to contribute to it. But barring truly unacceptable service, I'm afraid that leaving a 12% pre-tax tip would be taken as an affront by most front-of-house staff in full-service restaurants in the U.S.

I would also say that the ingrained "tipping culture" in the U.S. is really a manifestation of many other differences between the U.S. and other countries, such as tax structures, business practices, and the presence/absence of socialized medicine and other national benefit programs. For better or for worse, the factors at play have driven it to be the case that most of these folks need significant tips to survive. Restaurateurs have written the receipt of such tips into their business models and thus cut employee pay down to accommodate that; the exception to the minimum wage law for tipped employees in fact encourages this. People from other countries with perhaps less wealth disparity and more social welfare programs can look down upon this (and we Americans can be ashamed of it), but it is in fact the case and not likely to change here in the immediate future.

Contrary to what one might potentially infer from this post, my personal sentiments align quite closely with what roastpuff has articulated above. However, taking one's feelings out on the lowest-level first line workers and potentially causing them to starve or lose their home is not generally the best way to effect a policy change. So, like it or not, for the time being, when in NYC, do not do as the Romans do.

offerendum

Thanks, have to Keep in mind for the next time

Hvr

Thank you for a wonderful TR, I was in New York last month and as usual I loved it.

I've also done CX888 from HKG-YVR-JFK in F (seat 1A).

The holding pen at YVR is a disappointment and cheapens the journey. Would've loved to have seen the F lounge there but it wasn't to be.

The crews on CX are magnificent and nothing was too much trouble for them. Hope to get to YVR one day and actually see your fine city.

worldtraveller73

Hope you're looking forward to the CX F experience coming up platbrownguy.

Rants are always welcome. However, I think we have a different perspective on tipping. I'm not looking to short anyone, nor be stingy. But I'm also not in the habit of a 35% tip for a drink either.

The point of the post was to share the experience. A small tip was left. We were called on it. I found being called on it unusual, as did other customers on Trip Advisor. I wasn't aware of the tip amount or directly thinking about it when it happened since my wife paid. Hindsight can be near perfect. Would we have handled the circumstances differently next time? Probably.

Thanks offerendum and CMK10.

CMK10's nailed it. It's a food and beverage outlet area in the converted original Nabisco factory near the Highline.

Thanks Frequent_Flyer 1, ariflier and roastpuff.

Valid points by all. There was certainly no vindictiveness towards the wait staff. Frankly, it was probably a decision made late at night that wasn't made with a large amount of thought put into it. I can't articulate the exact thought process since it wasn't entirely mine but I can appreciate the comments of all. Like I said, up thread, it would probably be handled differently next time. However, I also believe that staff shouldn't be challenging their customers.

Thanks GodAtum, they're coming right up!

Thanks Hvr

I'd have to agree. That holding pen would greatly cheapen the experience if one was flying in a premium cabin. The lack of access to food and beverage, other than room temperature bottled water, would be my primary concern (washrooms are attached in the secure gate area).

worldtraveller73

9/11 Memorial Museum,
Liberty St, New York City, NY 10006, United States
on Memorial Day, 2014.

This has to be the hardest post I’ve ever had to write for Flyer Talk.

The post is hard to write as all of us on this forum have been affected by the incidents of 9/11 in some way or another. Even though we’ve each been affected by this act, it can’t come anywhere near as close to anyone that has lost a loved one, family member, someone as flight crew, or a friend on September 11, 2001.

The museum itself is split into two separate parts. The “inner” museum (also known as the Historical Exhibition) contains most of the artifacts and history of the incident. The “outer” museum (also known as the Memorial Exhibition) contains larger artifacts of items involved on September 11, 2001. The “inner” museum was the most difficult museum I’ve ever visited in the world. Both museums are behind the paid admission gates of the 9/11 Memorial Museum.

During our New York visit, I knew that I wanted to take in the 9/11 Memorial Museum. After some perseverance, we were able to gain tickets for a visit on Day 4 of the Museum’s operation (Memorial Day 2014). I was unable to purchase tickets on line through the website. It seemed it would not accept Canadian Credit Cards and I kept getting error messages. I ended up going to the ticket office on the day of our arrival and secured two tickets with a 3 day waiting period (the soonest visit times were 3 days away).

First, the beautiful memorial plaza in the shadows of the original towers. There were many white flowers out in memory of loved ones on our Memorial Day visit.



















Tickets in hand, we entered the museum with a 1 PM ticket at 12:30 PM. We were subjected to a full TSA airport style security screening (less the ID podium check). It’s the only museum that I’ve ever been to that was under guard by members of the local police department as opposed to a contracted private security company.

The entry ramp of the “outer” museum started with a sound scape of voices and people remembering their experiences of 9/11. The ramp led to the original foundation level of the twin towers. Slide images of the onlookers on the streets of Manhattan watching the twin towers collapse in horror are shown- they are almost the forgotten images of 9/11. These images were so present during the newscasts of those days and weeks but you don’t seem them so much anymore. Watching the images took you back immediately to that day and the fright in these spectator’s eyes as they watched history unfold firsthand. The downward walk started with one of the last scenic photographs of the Twin Towers, and ended with an overview of the large retaining wall used by the old Twin Towers against the Hudson River.















Some of the artifacts included the original dedication plaque to the towers, some how it survived the collapse.



On the bottom floor, the “inner” museum featured the September 11, 2011 historical exhibition. It’s walled inside a large multi room soundproof container. A sign outside actually recommends that visitors under 10 years of age not attend. I’d have to agree. No photographs are allowed inside the inner exhibition so I only have experiences to share today.

Inside the exhibition it’s a totally different experience from the outer museum. In the Memorial Exhibition, you are pretty much free to take in any exhibit in any order. The Historical Exhibition locks you into a set path where you move along with the group in order of the phases. The exhibition is set up in three phases.

Phase 1 The Day 9/11
Phase 2 Before 9/11
Phase 3 After 9/11

As I said earlier, this was the most heart wrenching museum that I’ve ever visited. I wasn’t alone in thinking this as the sounds of sniffles are ever present throughout the various museum spectators that I had heard as we walked along together, but apart in our viewing.

Starting with the first phase, you’re immediately shocked back into the reality of what we all experienced on September 11, 2001. The museum has collected and assembled the voicemail messages of all those in the towers that called home for help, those that called the fire department to report where they were on floor 100 or higher, those on United 93 that had heard what had happened in New York and had left messages for their loved ones explaining what they planned to do, those radio calls from firemen to their dispatchers desperately calling for additional help to deal with the disaster. The recordings are played in the background as you walk through the exhibits of the museum. The recordings make it impossible to remain impassive about the museum and add a third dimension to the artifacts. I couldn’t help but hear the strength in the voices of the dead - people’s voices with such determination, clarity and focus, knowing full well that we all knew how it turned out in the end.

The museum contained many physical articles (recovered from wreckage) related to the day of September 11, 2001. I was interested in seeing Todd Beamer’s scarred wrist watch and recovered business card from flight United 93. Match that along with the stories of his, and others actions’ on United 93 as the legacies that they left behind pulls at your emotions and what true heroes they actually were.

The museum has a slide show collection of “the falling man images”. As you may recall, the initial news coverage on that day showed images of those persons, estimated to be between 50 and 200 people, that jumped from the top of the towers to their death in the streets below. In my hometown of Vancouver, the media stopped showing these images on television because they were simply too graphic to watch. Here, in a hidden corner of the inner exhibition, was a slide show of the photo images captured of those that decided to jump. Jumping because it was the better option versus something else that was so horrifying, it is hard to turn away. Testimonials on the wall include quotes from witnesses who observed women jumping, while adjusting their skirts prior to falling- thinking that it was a very noble thing to do prior to falling to your death.

The examples go on and on… Hearing the voice of a flight attendant on United 93 leave a last message for her husband, telling him that she loved him and that she dearly hoped to see his face again is something that really can’t be put into words. It’s unusual to be able to get close to humanity in such a way for an incident that was over in a few hours. It ultimately made me pray that all of the Commonwealth lives that have been lost through the war in Afghanistan and at home fighting domestic terrorism have been worthwhile.

The museum itself was so hard wrenching and difficult to consume at time. By the time you get through the inner museum to phase 3, your heart had seen enough. I personally wasn’t able to give the last phase of the museum – the Al-Qeada history and documentary exhibition, the attention that it deserved.

The outer museum permitted photography. It contained the survivor stairs where a few of the last remaining survivors made it out of the WTC towers.



There were also several examples of the 9/11 memorabilia that had been collected, including a giant patchwork quilt and the statute of liberty model found near the base of WTC that contained many patches of first responders that assisted in the recovery efforts.







And some of the steel façade tower pieces that were on the North Building between floors 93-96. The photograph in the placard showed the actual position of this massive piece on the building.









There were several other examples of how massive the force mush have been when the building collapsed. It’s hard to imagine the pressure on steel that is bent and burnt like this.





The memorial hall occupied the end of the outer museum, including biographies of all 2,983 that were killed in the attacks on September 11, 2011 and February 26, 1993.





The hall was further highlighted by a beautiful colored exhibit entitled “Trying to Remember the Color of the Sky that Morning”.





In the memorial exhibition, there was a film entitiled "Rebirth at Ground Zero". We lined up for it but it was a little hit or miss. It displayed the rebuilding of the site.

Another interesting series of exhibits were the Ladder 3 truck. The Ladder 3 truck of the New York City Fire Department was one of the initial fire crews on site. The entire company was killed in the first response as they were in the building somewhere above floor 35.





DSC_0598





There were also segments of the radio and television towers on the roof of the towers that fell to the ground, somehow still intact.



There were also elevator motors that somehow made it down intact after falling 110 floors.



Along with a closer look at the sump wall, there were also a multimedia display of some items that were as a result of 9/11- including a Transport Safety Administration timeline relating to air travel.









Hidden upstairs, above the main entrance, is the auditorium. At the time of our visit, the auditorium was showing a documentary film, with interviews of several key figures: George W Bush, Condoleezza Rice, Rudolph Giuliani, and George Pataki among others highlighting the challenges faced with the leadership in dealing with an evolving situation. This particular documentary had received some notoriety in the press as it felt that it did not demonstrate a significant difference between Muslims and Al-Qaeda. The exhibit was mostly missed by most museum visitors, and is not printed in the museum brochure so be sure to ask for it if you are interested. I found it to be among the most interesting parts of the museum.

Our museum visit took us 4 hours, including a visit to all exhibitions and all films. I figure I read about 60% of all materials that were presented. If you are interested in giving the museum the respect it deserves, and are an aviation and a law enforcement geek like I am, allow yourself a minimum of 3 hours. We expected about 2 – 2.5 hours and ran over time with a 4 hour visit.

Our children are very fortunate in that they will be able to review history in a manner that is exceptionally well documented and unprecedented unlike any other generation. The sad part about this museum visit is that it will be a deeply emotional experience by the time that they are old enough to fully comprehend the significance of what they are seeing.

CMK10

Excellent description of the museum, you captured the reverence very well. Thank you for sharing your emotions with us. I lived in New York when 9/11 happened so I appreciate your kind words and outpouring of feelings.

offerendum

Impressing Museum - I will visit on my next NY-trip