Fake Service Dogs
Apr 7, 2011, 9:52 am
#124
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 9
Do you have a real question? If so, please ask me. A lot of people don't understand the "Why" behind the "special" rules for people with service dogs, or the disabled in general. (Which is what I suspect your question is about by your response.) I'd rather educate you so you do understand.
Apr 7, 2011, 1:36 pm
#125
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 309
I have a friend who gets a note from his psychiatrist once a year that allows his little dog to fly with him as a "comfort animal". She, to my knowlege has no offical vest but is there to ease the anxiety of flying. I believe I read that "lilfarfa" has a service dog. I am curious what kind it is. I can see how a large dog in the confines of an airplane can be a bit cumbersome, but it's better for all concerned to have peace and harmony (well, as much as it is possible having read FT's posts) on the plane. I would also like to point out that there is a huge difference between therapy dogs and service dogs. My dog is a certified therapy dog. We visit hospitals and schools. However, she is not a service dog as she is not physically or mentally required to be with another human being. Service dogs are just that. They are there to assist the human with a task(s) that he/she could otherwise not perform.
Apr 7, 2011, 3:07 pm
#126
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 9
I have a friend who gets a note from his psychiatrist once a year that allows his little dog to fly with him as a "comfort animal". She, to my knowlege has no offical vest but is there to ease the anxiety of flying. I believe I read that "lilfarfa" has a service dog. I am curious what kind it is. I can see how a large dog in the confines of an airplane can be a bit cumbersome, but it's better for all concerned to have peace and harmony (well, as much as it is possible having read FT's posts) on the plane. I would also like to point out that there is a huge difference between therapy dogs and service dogs. My dog is a certified therapy dog. We visit hospitals and schools. However, she is not a service dog as she is not physically or mentally required to be with another human being. Service dogs are just that. They are there to assist the human with a task(s) that he/she could otherwise not perform.
It sounds like your friend has an ESA. The ACAA (regulates flying) and FHA (regulates housing) both acknowledge and allow people with disabilities to have an ESA, which is a pet that provides comfort. To fly with an ESA, the person must have a DSM IV (psychiatric) disability. If your friend does not, than both her AND her doctor are breaking federal law and her doctor is risking his license.
Yes, there is a huge difference between therapy and service dogs. Therapy dogs are pets and their handlers have no extra rights with them in any situation, including flying with them. Some airlines will allow therapy dogs to fly in the cabin for free like service dogs do when they are flying for purposes of work, especially after major disasters, but they do not have to.
Did you mean to say that it would be better if service dogs flew in crates with this sentence, "I can see how a large dog in the confines of an airplane can be a bit cumbersome, but it's better for all concerned to have peace and harmony "?
If so, no, its not. First, my dog can't do his job from a crate, and just because I'm flying, doesn't mean I won't need him during the flight. Second, where ya gonna put a crate for a 115 lb dog that he can stand up and turn around in...wait...where ya find one in the first place? Service dogs are not pet dogs. Now, ESA's....I know they are allowed under the same rules as service dogs but they don't have the same training that service dogs have. I am not sure how I feel about them being able to fly "loose".
Apr 7, 2011, 3:33 pm
#127
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 309
Did you mean to say that it would be better if service dogs flew in crates with this sentence, "I can see how a large dog in the confines of an airplane can be a bit cumbersome, but it's better for all concerned to have peace and harmony "?
If so, no, its not. First, my dog can't do his job from a crate, and just because I'm flying, doesn't mean I won't need him during the flight. Second, where ya gonna put a crate for a 115 lb dog that he can stand up and turn around in...wait...where ya find one in the first place? Service dogs are not pet dogs. Now, ESA's....I know they are allowed under the same rules as service dogs but they don't have the same training that service dogs have. I am not sure how I feel about them being able to fly "loose".
If so, no, its not. First, my dog can't do his job from a crate, and just because I'm flying, doesn't mean I won't need him during the flight. Second, where ya gonna put a crate for a 115 lb dog that he can stand up and turn around in...wait...where ya find one in the first place? Service dogs are not pet dogs. Now, ESA's....I know they are allowed under the same rules as service dogs but they don't have the same training that service dogs have. I am not sure how I feel about them being able to fly "loose".
Apr 7, 2011, 3:40 pm
#128
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 309
Did you mean to say that it would be better if service dogs flew in crates with this sentence, "I can see how a large dog in the confines of an airplane can be a bit cumbersome, but it's better for all concerned to have peace and harmony "?
If so, no, its not. First, my dog can't do his job from a crate, and just because I'm flying, doesn't mean I won't need him during the flight. Second, where ya gonna put a crate for a 115 lb dog that he can stand up and turn around in...wait...where ya find one in the first place? Service dogs are not pet dogs. Now, ESA's....I know they are allowed under the same rules as service dogs but they don't have the same training that service dogs have. I am not sure how I feel about them being able to fly "loose".
If so, no, its not. First, my dog can't do his job from a crate, and just because I'm flying, doesn't mean I won't need him during the flight. Second, where ya gonna put a crate for a 115 lb dog that he can stand up and turn around in...wait...where ya find one in the first place? Service dogs are not pet dogs. Now, ESA's....I know they are allowed under the same rules as service dogs but they don't have the same training that service dogs have. I am not sure how I feel about them being able to fly "loose".
I absolutely did not mean to infer that the pup should be in a crate. What I meant to get across is that the other passengers should not fret about a bigger dog (that may take up extra space) in the cabin. That dog is highly trained (maybe more than the other passengers themselves
) and is there to keep "their person" safe and calm.I had no idea that therapy dogs may be allowed to travel to "work purposes". Interesting. However, mine is a 14 lb. Westie who meets the airline standards for in-cabin travel anyway - though she wouldn't be travelling for free.
I think it's awesome that you have a service dog. 115 lbs of utter devotion.
Apr 7, 2011, 3:50 pm
#129
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 9
Oops, I hit the wrong button...
I absolutely did not mean to infer that the pup should be in a crate. What I meant to get across is that the other passengers should not fret about a bigger dog (that may take up extra space) in the cabin. That dog is highly trained (maybe more than the other passengers themselves) and is there to keep "their person" safe and calm.
I had no idea that therapy dogs may be allowed to travel to "work purposes". Interesting. However, mine is a 14 lb. Westie who meets the airline standards for in-cabin travel anyway - though she wouldn't be travelling for free.
I think it's awesome that you have a service dog. 115 lbs of utter devotion.
I absolutely did not mean to infer that the pup should be in a crate. What I meant to get across is that the other passengers should not fret about a bigger dog (that may take up extra space) in the cabin. That dog is highly trained (maybe more than the other passengers themselves
) and is there to keep "their person" safe and calm.I had no idea that therapy dogs may be allowed to travel to "work purposes". Interesting. However, mine is a 14 lb. Westie who meets the airline standards for in-cabin travel anyway - though she wouldn't be travelling for free.
I think it's awesome that you have a service dog. 115 lbs of utter devotion.
Not all airlines allow therapy dogs to fly for free, some do only under extreme circumstances, like flying to work after 9/11 or Katrina. But, you'd have to call and find out.
Apr 8, 2011, 9:05 am
#130
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Programs: Delta, Starwood, Hilton
Posts: 455
I have a good friend that is going deaf. Since she was not deaf at birth, she speaks normally and as a competant businesswoman, I defy anyone to notice her disability. However, she is very hard of hearing and her service dog has helped her in many ways, saving her life twice.
If you were on a plane with my friend and her dog , you might doubt that she needs it. But you would be wrong.
Just mentioning that perhaps we should not judge unless we know circumstances. And personally, I think it would be rude to ask--"hey, why do you have that dog?"
If you were on a plane with my friend and her dog , you might doubt that she needs it. But you would be wrong.
Just mentioning that perhaps we should not judge unless we know circumstances. And personally, I think it would be rude to ask--"hey, why do you have that dog?"
Apr 8, 2011, 11:56 am
#131
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 9
I have a good friend that is going deaf. Since she was not deaf at birth, she speaks normally and as a competant businesswoman, I defy anyone to notice her disability. However, she is very hard of hearing and her service dog has helped her in many ways, saving her life twice.
If you were on a plane with my friend and her dog , you might doubt that she needs it. But you would be wrong.
Just mentioning that perhaps we should not judge unless we know circumstances. And personally, I think it would be rude to ask--"hey, why do you have that dog?"
If you were on a plane with my friend and her dog , you might doubt that she needs it. But you would be wrong.
Just mentioning that perhaps we should not judge unless we know circumstances. And personally, I think it would be rude to ask--"hey, why do you have that dog?"
Gungadin, I couldn't agree more. I also appear to be "normal" unless you see me in the middle of an episode. As rude as it is, we do get asked, "Why do you need that dog?" in various forms all the time.
Apr 8, 2011, 12:08 pm
#132
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 599
(In raising a service dog, we were never asked why we had a dog, but did have to constantly remind people that he's not a pet and you can't just touch him.)
Aug 6, 2011, 12:07 am
#133
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1
What is really the issue?
I sometimes wonder what is really the issue here? I as a service dog owner also get discouraged when I see people abuse the system. This has and will go on in all areas of life just look at our politicians, but we can't police everyone.
Keep yourself informed by knowing the requirements of the ADA. A person can train their own service dog and there is no certification required by the ADA. If the service dog behaves badly the person with the service animal can be asked to remove the animal without fear of reprisal. I do agree this would be difficult at 35000 feet. These people that are claiming they have trained service dogs but they only have badly behaved "FAKES" will eventually come across someone that will challenge them and they will not have the law on their side.
Their are only 2 questions that can legally be asked of an individual with a service dog. 1) Is the service animal required because of a disability 2) What work or task has the dog been trained to preform. You never have to reveal your disability to anyone other than your medical provider. A business can not require documentation or proof and a vest or tag is not required to be worn by a service dog.
The Airlines may be asking for proof for the Emotional Support Animals but it's illegal to ask this from the people with service dogs. They can only ask those 2 questions I stated above. Now I am willing to provide proof to make things easier, however it often depends on how I'm asked. My service dog is a 5 pound Yorkie and many people assume that he's a pet because I have no outward signs of a disability. I am challenged all the time and I have the law on my side and believe me I make sure that I know exactly what the ADA states about service animals. It may also help if you get your service animal registered in your city or county. You should not have to pay for a dog/cat license because they are considered medical equipment not a pet. Many counties/cities have special tags for service animals and they can require the DR prescription to waive the licensing fee but you don't have to reveal your disability.
If the police do ever become involved and the person has not been prescribed the "service dog" there could be a fine and possible jail time involved.
The US Justice Department, Civil Rights Division administer the laws as far as service animals are concerned.
Keep yourself informed by knowing the requirements of the ADA. A person can train their own service dog and there is no certification required by the ADA. If the service dog behaves badly the person with the service animal can be asked to remove the animal without fear of reprisal. I do agree this would be difficult at 35000 feet. These people that are claiming they have trained service dogs but they only have badly behaved "FAKES" will eventually come across someone that will challenge them and they will not have the law on their side.
Their are only 2 questions that can legally be asked of an individual with a service dog. 1) Is the service animal required because of a disability 2) What work or task has the dog been trained to preform. You never have to reveal your disability to anyone other than your medical provider. A business can not require documentation or proof and a vest or tag is not required to be worn by a service dog.
The Airlines may be asking for proof for the Emotional Support Animals but it's illegal to ask this from the people with service dogs. They can only ask those 2 questions I stated above. Now I am willing to provide proof to make things easier, however it often depends on how I'm asked. My service dog is a 5 pound Yorkie and many people assume that he's a pet because I have no outward signs of a disability. I am challenged all the time and I have the law on my side and believe me I make sure that I know exactly what the ADA states about service animals. It may also help if you get your service animal registered in your city or county. You should not have to pay for a dog/cat license because they are considered medical equipment not a pet. Many counties/cities have special tags for service animals and they can require the DR prescription to waive the licensing fee but you don't have to reveal your disability.
If the police do ever become involved and the person has not been prescribed the "service dog" there could be a fine and possible jail time involved.
The US Justice Department, Civil Rights Division administer the laws as far as service animals are concerned.
Aug 6, 2011, 1:00 am
#134
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: No longer loyal "over-entitled" 1K
Posts: 3,822
I sometimes wonder what is really the issue here? I as a service dog owner also get discouraged when I see people abuse the system. This has and will go on in all areas of life just look at our politicians, but we can't police everyone.
Keep yourself informed by knowing the requirements of the ADA. A person can train their own service dog and there is no certification required by the ADA. If the service dog behaves badly the person with the service animal can be asked to remove the animal without fear of reprisal. I do agree this would be difficult at 35000 feet. These people that are claiming they have trained service dogs but they only have badly behaved "FAKES" will eventually come across someone that will challenge them and they will not have the law on their side.
Their are only 2 questions that can legally be asked of an individual with a service dog. 1) Is the service animal required because of a disability 2) What work or task has the dog been trained to preform. You never have to reveal your disability to anyone other than your medical provider. A business can not require documentation or proof and a vest or tag is not required to be worn by a service dog.
The Airlines may be asking for proof for the Emotional Support Animals but it's illegal to ask this from the people with service dogs. They can only ask those 2 questions I stated above. Now I am willing to provide proof to make things easier, however it often depends on how I'm asked. My service dog is a 5 pound Yorkie and many people assume that he's a pet because I have no outward signs of a disability. I am challenged all the time and I have the law on my side and believe me I make sure that I know exactly what the ADA states about service animals. It may also help if you get your service animal registered in your city or county. You should not have to pay for a dog/cat license because they are considered medical equipment not a pet. Many counties/cities have special tags for service animals and they can require the DR prescription to waive the licensing fee but you don't have to reveal your disability.
If the police do ever become involved and the person has not been prescribed the "service dog" there could be a fine and possible jail time involved.
The US Justice Department, Civil Rights Division administer the laws as far as service animals are concerned.
Keep yourself informed by knowing the requirements of the ADA. A person can train their own service dog and there is no certification required by the ADA. If the service dog behaves badly the person with the service animal can be asked to remove the animal without fear of reprisal. I do agree this would be difficult at 35000 feet. These people that are claiming they have trained service dogs but they only have badly behaved "FAKES" will eventually come across someone that will challenge them and they will not have the law on their side.
Their are only 2 questions that can legally be asked of an individual with a service dog. 1) Is the service animal required because of a disability 2) What work or task has the dog been trained to preform. You never have to reveal your disability to anyone other than your medical provider. A business can not require documentation or proof and a vest or tag is not required to be worn by a service dog.
The Airlines may be asking for proof for the Emotional Support Animals but it's illegal to ask this from the people with service dogs. They can only ask those 2 questions I stated above. Now I am willing to provide proof to make things easier, however it often depends on how I'm asked. My service dog is a 5 pound Yorkie and many people assume that he's a pet because I have no outward signs of a disability. I am challenged all the time and I have the law on my side and believe me I make sure that I know exactly what the ADA states about service animals. It may also help if you get your service animal registered in your city or county. You should not have to pay for a dog/cat license because they are considered medical equipment not a pet. Many counties/cities have special tags for service animals and they can require the DR prescription to waive the licensing fee but you don't have to reveal your disability.
If the police do ever become involved and the person has not been prescribed the "service dog" there could be a fine and possible jail time involved.
The US Justice Department, Civil Rights Division administer the laws as far as service animals are concerned.
Feb 10, 2012, 1:23 am
#135
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1
about your question
Well how about the situation i am in, I am disabled and i don't regularly use my cane especially on a plane. Because, how can i get around with my cane in those isles and a carry on. It is a hastle also because they wont even let me stand with my cane going through the metal detector. So I am actually forced to put my cane through the metal detector and walk through it without a cane.
I have 2 dogs which i am now trying to get certified. One thing you have to realize is yes 1 bad apple ruins it all for everyone who is actually disabled. But sometimes u cannot SEE a disability when infact they are more disabled than they "look". So yes i agree i do not like fakers but sometimes you wouldn't know if someone is disabled (not by simply looking at them).
My personal disability has to do with my spine. And you would not be able to see that even if you lift my shirt. So i don't really know their case or anyone else's but my own.
If someone told me they found a loop hole in a system and they choose to exploit it. I guess that would be a "win" in some peoples opinion. But when you find a loop hole and make others uncomfortable due to your exploit then i believe it becomes a problem for all.
So i would definitely bring it up to the management of TSA more than i would the personal airline because of TSA has more authority to ask for your "certificate of proof" then say a airline would.
They deal with identification issues and they have the law on their side.
An airline could be sued if they asked for such documentation.
I have 2 dogs which i am now trying to get certified. One thing you have to realize is yes 1 bad apple ruins it all for everyone who is actually disabled. But sometimes u cannot SEE a disability when infact they are more disabled than they "look". So yes i agree i do not like fakers but sometimes you wouldn't know if someone is disabled (not by simply looking at them).
My personal disability has to do with my spine. And you would not be able to see that even if you lift my shirt. So i don't really know their case or anyone else's but my own.
If someone told me they found a loop hole in a system and they choose to exploit it. I guess that would be a "win" in some peoples opinion. But when you find a loop hole and make others uncomfortable due to your exploit then i believe it becomes a problem for all.
So i would definitely bring it up to the management of TSA more than i would the personal airline because of TSA has more authority to ask for your "certificate of proof" then say a airline would.
They deal with identification issues and they have the law on their side.
An airline could be sued if they asked for such documentation.