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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 2:04 pm
  #31  
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Sounds like the real problem here is the father not the kid....You did the right thing. I'm not sure I would have been as nice as you (And yes, I am a parent and a grandparent)
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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 2:22 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by lszczepa
Hi all,

My question revolves around children in back of you. I was going from SFO to JFK and couldnt get upgraded. I had a little child, between 8 10 years old, kicking my seat the entire time. Finally, I got up and kneeled down by him and said Lil dude, can you not kick my seat cause it hurts my back, ok?. I then got the death stare from his dad and had him questioning me. When I explained he was like, I will see what can I do. (It didn't solve anything.)

The question is, how do you handle this situation? Do I just call a FA over or go up to the childrens parents? I never experience this in business but I seem to always have the child kicking my seat or the crying baby next to me when in economy plus.

And, Yes, I am not a parent so I dont know how to handle children.
Best,
-l
Yes, agree you did the right thing. However, a child of 10 (or even 8) is perfectly capable of understanding that kicking the backs of seats causes great discomfort - but how important this is to the child will depend upon how it has been brought up to regard the feelings of others. If the child won't desist and the parent is not going to intervene then, yes, call the FA. It really is the most excruciating thing to have to put up with.
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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 2:38 pm
  #33  
 
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I think the OP did just fine.

I hate to tell Dear Old Dad this, but if parents don't discipline their kids...the world will. And the world will not be nearly as kind.

I had the good fortune of having a responsible parent sitting behind me once.

I was exhausted from making a connection to my DFW-ATL flight.
The very small 4-5 y.o. boy behind me kicked my seat. I was so tired, I didn't say anything.
The next thing I know, he is standing by my seat with his head hanging low. I asked him if something was wrong, & he had come to apologize to me for kicking my seat.
I told him that he was a very nice person for that and that I wasn't angry with him.
While we deplaned, I turned to the mother & complimented her and her son for his good manners.
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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 5:04 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by thunderbirdfan
The next thing I know, he is standing by my seat with his head hanging low. I asked him if something was wrong, & he had come to apologize to me for kicking my seat.
I told him that he was a very nice person for that and that I wasn't angry with him.
While we deplaned, I turned to the mother & complimented her and her son for his good manners.
It's all about home training. Thunderbirdfan's travel tot had it. OP's did not.
Let's not make excuses for air brats.
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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 5:38 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by roadkit
What I usually do in this case is look the dad square in the eye and say "Sir, please keep your child from kicking my seat." If I get even the slightest look of irritation, I follow up with "because if you don't, when I get off this plane I'll beat your ... in front of him, and that wil cause you so much more trouble in the future than this flight will ever be."
I hope that was a really big smiley cause if anyone says somesome thing like that to me I would be having a little chat with the FA requesting that LO meet you at the gate with some shiney bracelets. :-D
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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 6:07 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by lszczepa
And, Yes, I am not a parent so I dont know how to handle children.
Nor, it seems, does the poor child's father.

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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 10:12 pm
  #37  
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Some parents just can't win. On a recent flight I was making sure my 8 year old young bloke wasn't kicking the seat in front. However, being 8 and being a longish flight it was ineviable that he would contact the seat in front a few times. I was watching him and admonishing him whenever he accidentally kicked the seat in front. At the end of the flight the guy in front stood up and said to my young fella sarcastically "thanks for kicking my seat all the way". I apologised, despite knowing that he wasn't kicking "all the way" and mentioned to the man that I had been telling him quite often to watch out for the seat in front. He said "Yeah, I heard you"
In that situation I don't know what more I could have done.
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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 10:33 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by tednugent(no relation)
Agree with this approach ^ . Adults should address adults. Talking to the kid directly probably won't accomplish much. ("no talking to strangers" and all that).
I believe adults should address the troublemaker. A "Excuse me, please try not to kick my seat because it's very unconfortable for me" accompanied with a smile towards the parents has not failed me yet. The kids kicking my seat simply haven't been aware that it could be unconfortable for the person sitting in it. For them it's just a wall in front of them.

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Old Mar 18, 2007 | 10:49 pm
  #39  
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Interesting. I have flown over 100,000 miles a year for quite a while now and have never once encountered a child seat kicker, or an adult seat grabber for that matter.

The only unruly child I have ever encountered was about three and was running, followed by his mother, from the very back of the plane to the very front on a 757. I asked the flight attendant to suggest to the mother that she contain her son's exercise to coach and that settled the matter.
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Old Mar 19, 2007 | 8:54 am
  #40  
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Never speak to the child; it is not his fault. The parent is responsible for the child. Speak to the parent and ask the parent to switch seats with the child as one possible solution. If you find yourself dealing with an unruly parent, contact the FA and inform him of the problem. The FA in my experience has always been able to resolve this quickly and peacefully.

Has anyone noticed that when a child travels alone, you never experience a kicking problem?
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Old Mar 19, 2007 | 9:13 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by valve bouncer
Some parents just can't win. On a recent flight I was making sure my 8 year old young bloke wasn't kicking the seat in front. However, being 8 and being a longish flight it was ineviable that he would contact the seat in front a few times. I was watching him and admonishing him whenever he accidentally kicked the seat in front. At the end of the flight the guy in front stood up and said to my young fella sarcastically "thanks for kicking my seat all the way". I apologised, despite knowing that he wasn't kicking "all the way" and mentioned to the man that I had been telling him quite often to watch out for the seat in front. He said "Yeah, I heard you"
In that situation I don't know what more I could have done.
I incorporate by reference this thread on large passengers:

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=670689

Bottom line: whatever it is that your child does (and I do not accept that because he's 8, kicking the seat in front of him was inevitable -- moreover, the fact that you had been "telling him quite often" suggests that he was doing it quite often), flying with your child is your problem, and not the problem of the person seated in front of him.

What is a parent to do? Ensure that their child doesn't kick the seat in front of them. How? Not my problem -- you're the parent. You do not have the right to make your problem the problem of strangers flying with you. No one may impose as a matter of entitlement -- that's simple courtesy.
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Old Mar 19, 2007 | 10:02 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by PTravel
What is a parent to do? Ensure that their child doesn't kick the seat in front of them. How? Not my problem -- you're the parent. You do not have the right to make your problem the problem of strangers flying with you. No one may impose as a matter of entitlement -- that's simple courtesy.
Hmmm. So, you suggest that the parent, maybe, tie their little ones legs down? Beat them into submission (then we get the crying child threads ramped up)?

Now, don't get me wrong, I've been known to hold my daughter's legs down, but sometimes "stuff" happens and contact is made. Can't exactly send her to the timeout chair (or her room or wherever) while in flight. If the kicking is more than occassional and the parent(s) aren't actually trying to do something about, I can see PAX getting angry, but when the parents are trying to correct the bad behavior being a sarcastic twit at the end of the flight doesn't accomplish anything, but make the parent angry at the it's-all-about-me attitude, especially after acknowledging that the parent was attempting to correct the situation.

The DOT could certify booster seats for flight use so that the ergonomic issues could be better dealt with (but that would require shoulder harnesses and the airlines aren't going to spend any bucks for those), or the airlines could add some additional seat pitch, or, maybe, the parents could by business or first class seats (thereby starting up the kids in first class threads).

Kids have a right to travel as much as adults. Parents need to do their best - short of child abuse - to keep those little legs under control. Other PAX need to recognize when the parent is attempting to correct the situation and not be PITAs because things didn't go their way. In a flying tin can there's no opportunity to remove the child from the situation, unlike in restaurants, while shopping or visiting friends.

Now, could someone do something about the adult jerk behind me on my last flight that thought my seat back was his personal hand rail?

Last edited by jefrank; Mar 19, 2007 at 10:12 am
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Old Mar 19, 2007 | 10:18 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by jefrank
Hmmm. So, you suggest that the parent, maybe, tie their little ones legs down? Beat them into submission (then we get the crying child threads ramped up)?
I didn't suggest anything of the kind. I said that it is not the problem of the passenger seated in front. It is the problem of the parent.

Now, don't get me wrong, I've been known to hold my daughter's legs down, but sometimes "stuff" happens and contact is made. Can't exactly send her to the timeout chair (or her room or wherever) while in flight. If the kicking is more than occassional and the parent(s) aren't actually trying to do something about, I can see PAX getting angry, but when the parents are trying to correct the bad behavior being a sarcastic twit at the end of the flight doesn't accomplish anything, but make the parent angry at your insufferable it's-all-about-me attitude, especially after acknowledging that the parent was attempting to correct the situation.
Well, that's your view (and, apparently a view that encompasses seeing other people as "sarcastic twits" because they don't like having their seat kicked on a "longish" flight). My view is that it's up to you to remedy problems for which you are responsible. Imposition isn't an entitlement, and having a kid along doesn't vest you with a special right to make strangers unwilling participants in your parenting. I've sat in front of many a young person (in fact, almost all of them -- I can remember only 2 instances when this was not true) without having my seat kicked so, apparently, it can be done.

The DOT could certify booster seats for flight use so that the ergonomic issues could be better dealt with (but that would require shoulder harnesses and the airlines aren't going to spend any bucks for those), or the airlines could add some additional seat pitch, or, maybe, the parents could by business or first class seats (thereby starting up the kids in first class threads).
Then take it up with the DOT. Not my problem. Your problem.

Kids have a right to travel as much as adults.
Of course they do. Who suggested otherwise? However, no one has the right to project their problems onto strangers, nor does anyone get to impose as a matter of entitlement. As I said, that's just common courtesy.

Parents need to do their best - short of child abuse - to keep those little legs under control. Other PAX need to recognize when the parent is attempting to correct the situation and not be PITAs because things didn't go their way.
Wrong. Other PAX don't need to do anything other than not make their own problems the problems of strangers, nor impose on other passengers.

In a flying tin can there's no opportunity to remove the child from the situation, unlike in restaurants, while shopping or visiting friends.
I'm glad you realize that, which is what makes an imposition like seat-kicking so much more unpleasant on a long-haul.

Now, could someone do something about the adult jerk behind me on my last flight that thought my seat back was his personal hand rail?
That adult jerk is rude and inconsiderate and imposed on you. Do you think that somehow justifies you in being rude and inconsiderate to other passengers?
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Old Mar 19, 2007 | 10:23 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by valve bouncer
Some parents just can't win. On a recent flight I was making sure my 8 year old young bloke wasn't kicking the seat in front. However, being 8 and being a longish flight it was ineviable that he would contact the seat in front a few times. I was watching him and admonishing him whenever he accidentally kicked the seat in front. At the end of the flight the guy in front stood up and said to my young fella sarcastically "thanks for kicking my seat all the way". I apologised, despite knowing that he wasn't kicking "all the way" and mentioned to the man that I had been telling him quite often to watch out for the seat in front. He said "Yeah, I heard you"
In that situation I don't know what more I could have done.
Bummer for you, I am sorry that happened. I never say anything when it happens, just grit my teeth and go on. However if I would have heard a parent saying that I would have thanked them instead of being mean. It's the hazards of flying and it goes both ways.
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Old Mar 19, 2007 | 4:14 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by PTravel
I didn't suggest anything of the kind. I said that it is not the problem of the passenger seated in front. It is the problem of the parent.
No, but you also don't offer any solutions to the problem so I suggested a couple for you. Apparently you agree they were extreme. Glad to see that.

Originally Posted by PTravel
Well, that's your view (and, apparently a view that encompasses seeing other people as "sarcastic twits" because they don't like having their seat kicked on a "longish" flight).
It wasn't not liking the kicking that makes me think that the PAX was a sarcastic twit, it was the fact that he decided to make an issue of it after the flight when he admitted hearing the father working to correct the situation. If it was really an issue he should have said something long before.

Originally Posted by PTravel
having a kid along doesn't vest you with a special right to make strangers unwilling participants in your parenting.
Being part of a society where children are allowed out of the house makes you an unwilling participant. Of course, you can decide to turn your head when you see a larger child bullying a smaller child... it's not your problem, after all, right?

Originally Posted by PTravel
I've sat in front of many a young person (in fact, almost all of them -- I can remember only 2 instances when this was not true) without having my seat kicked
As I'd expect.

Originally Posted by PTravel
Then take it up with the DOT. Not my problem. Your problem.
How did my suggested fixes, become my problem? All of your responses seem to be about making sure we parents understand it's our problem. We get it, we try to handle it, things don't always work out as we want.

Parents, for the most part, do the best they can... the little ones don't come with owner's manuals or off switches. Sometimes the sweetest child becomes demon spawn, for whatever reason(s). Most of the time it's possible to remove them from the situation and other people, sometimes it's not.

Originally Posted by PTravel
Of course they do. Who suggested otherwise? However, no one has the right to project their problems onto strangers, nor does anyone get to impose as a matter of entitlement. As I said, that's just common courtesy.
I don't get where you think anything I said was about entitlement. Child kicking (bad), parent stops behavior (good), child starts kicking again (still bad), parent stops it again (still good). I never said that the child was entitled to kick or that the parent was entitled to allow it to happen.

Originally Posted by PTravel
Wrong. Other PAX don't need to do anything other than not make their own problems the problems of strangers, nor impose on other passengers.
Does that also apply to the lady crying the whole trip because she lost her husband or child while she was away on business?

Once you opt to buy a ticket and get on the plane you've taken yourself out of control of the environment. If someone can't handle that loss of control then s/he needs to fly a private charter instead of a common carrier.

Originally Posted by PTravel
I'm glad you realize that, which is what makes an imposition like seat-kicking so much more unpleasant on a long-haul.
We don't disagree in the broad picture, it's only in the details and the perspective. Your view is that the parents can always stop the inappropriate behavior and keep it stopped, my view is that it's not always possible to completely stop the behavior without resorting to, possibly, illegal means.

Originally Posted by PTravel
That adult jerk is rude and inconsiderate and imposed on you. Do you think that somehow justifies you in being rude and inconsiderate to other passengers?
Apparently the wink was wasted... it was a joke.
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