The key is starting early -- well before you ever get on the plane. When disciplining your children, it needs to be made clear from an early age what type of behavior is acceptable and what isn't, and that "no" is non-negotiable (this last part is the most critical). If you get on the plane for the first time with your child and he/she kid kicks the seat once, I might accept that it's because he/she didn't understand that particular rule. But then, you should only need to tell them ONCE that this behavior crosses the line. If you tell them once and it happens again, it means you failed at your job well before the flight, because they still think "no" is negotiable. And when you take the next flight with your child, it should be a non-issue from the start, because they will already know that this behavior isn't acceptable.

My daughters are now 10 and 12, and they have never acted up on a flight to the point that another passenger has needed to complain. In fact, we have received many compliments from neighoring passengers as we deplaned about how well-behaved my children are. My daughters politely say "thank you" for the compliment, and then later ask me why other passengers make such a big deal about GOOD behavior. Exactly.

I can't think of any children at a young age (8 or 9, sure but 2 or 3, no way) that you can say no to once and they understand it. You have to reinforce EVERY time what is and is not acceptable until they get it. I remind my daugher EVERY flight not to touch the seat back. I do try to book 1E, F whenever possible but that's because of me, not for her benefit - I would prefer the under seat room for her toys and activities that I don't have in bulkhead.

So, we should yell across the aisle to get their attention? I find that silent communication is much more effective. Only if they ignore me, will words be spoken.

First of all, I don't have to propose a solution. I'm not the one causing the problem. If you're causing a problem, you find a solution so that you don't impose on others.

However, I've suggested three solutions: book bulkhead seats, book first class, or don't fly with your child if they're going to kick the seat in front of them.

How about we look at this the other way around. If parents with children who need to fly want to let their kids kick the seat in front of them, they had better come up with a solution acceptable to the strangers who their imposition effects.

Nope. This has nothing to do with whose interests "reign supreme." No one has the right to impose on others. Your interest in swinging your fist ends at the tip of my nose. This isn't a question of competing interests, but whether parents can impose on strangers as a matter of entitlement. The answer is: they cannot not. There is no such thing as a "right to impose."

The flyer on a plane, a public space, is responsible for opening up the possibility that he/she will have to deal with a kid -- or the host of other minor and major nuisances that make flying a quarter-step above riding the greyhound.

And really, the likelihood of having to deal with a bad child in flight is a lot less than most of these other annoyance, some of which I listed in a previous post.

If someone is really so child-averse and gets so steamed up about their own personal, quiet peace and calm being violated (and, come on, you're on a plane afterall), it is equally up to that person to pay up to fly in the front. I do it when I just don't feel like dealing with the hordes on long flights. Or simply avoid flying publicly.

Importantly, it simply does not follow that a business man with a meeting (which, btw, is usually me when I fly) is in any position to pull rank on a family traveling with children and say that children should not fly but that he of course is perfectly entitled to it. I could equally say if someone is not able to calmly deal with the chance of discomfort due to the inherent loss of control in an airplane, don't fly.

The fact is parents have a right to fly with children. It's not illegal. And in the rare case of a truly spastic child, that's not illegal, either.

No idea why some people are so hostile toward kids when there are so many other annoyances in flying. http://www.flyertalk.com/confused.gif

I book bulkhead seats when possible, but I don't always have the status to do so. Booking first class is out of my price range, and my kid might kick the seat, despite my best efforts, but probably won't. But sometimes he will.
I have a solution that works for me. I make a reasonable attempt to stop my kid from kicking. It's about 99 percent effective, as observed in restaurants and other public places. The other 1 percent of the time, the other guy is going to get annoyed. If you want me to change my strategy, you'd better convince me to change, because what I'm doing is perfectly legal, ethical, and moral to me. I'm willing to have a discussion with you to minimize this even further, but if you can't suggest anything, nothing is going to change - regardless of how you feel.

Of course this is a matter of competing interests, and like most questions of this sort, it's a fuzzy line. I can't hit your nose with my fist, but can I stop 0.1 inches away? What about 1 inch away? 1 foot away? 3 feet away? Someone might get upset if I stopped my fist 5 feet away, but they're not going to get very far with their "right to impose" argument.

As a society, we require a reasonable effort be made, not an ironclad guarantee. Help me refine my current solution and I can work with you. Asking me to pay an extra $60,000 for your convenience ($300 cost differential to move to 1st class * 2 seats * 1% chance of misbehavior = 60k spent per kicking incident prevented) gets you laughed at. Perhaps if you wanted to pay for the upgrades we could work things out...

If in fact the interior of a commercial aircraft is "public space" as someone just said in another post above, and if that means children and their parents can do whatever they choose in that public space without control or intervention by the air crew, then why do adults not enjoy the same privileges? The example I'm thinking of is the woman who was thrown off the Southwest flight just because she had a t-shirt on that had some rude words on it. I think that was back in 2004 or 05. Yet flight crew intervened in that situation and tossed her off the flight at the first stop. You don't have to read a t-shirt, but you can't necessarily avert your ears if a kid is screaming or acting out and the parent is dong nothing effective to control the situation.

And why do you think it's okay that he kicks the seat?

And that is exactly why I find some (and thank god not all) parents the worst thing about flying. I don't care if kids fly or not -- it doesn't concern me in the least. However, I don't want my seat kicked . . . by anyone. You think it's okay that your kid kicks my seat. I don't.

You are taking a common saw far too literally. I'll spell it out for you: You don't have the right to kick my seat, whether you do it or you do it by proxy.

Nope. As a society, we don't allow people to impose on others as a matter of right. I'm sorry you don't understand this. The fact that you have a kid does not give you the right to impose on me by kicking my seat.

Sorry, but you're still not clear on the issue. I'm asking you not to kick my seat. Period. I don't care what else you do or how you do it. Don't kick my seat. Period.

This has nothing to do with whether I might or might not encounter a kid. I don't care if kids fly, and I don't care if I encounter them, anymore than I'd care about encountering anyone else. Just don't kick my seat. Period. I don't know why this is so difficult for some people. You're not privileged to kick my seat. That's all there is to it. Don't do it. I don't care who you're flying with.

Nope. Nothing to do with being "child-averse." Don't kick my seat. I'm getting-my-seat-kicked averse. I don't care who's doing it -- adult or child. Don't kick my seat.

I'm not pulling rank and you're making a lot of assumptions about why I fly and who am I. The one thing that I am not is someone who kicks someone else's seat, or imposes in any other way. Don't kick my seat. Don't impose on me. I don't care who you fly with or for what reason. Don't impose on my and I don't care if you fly with a herd of circus elephants. However, if you do kick my seat, don't, for one minute, think you're privileged to do so because you're flying with a kid.

Of course parents have a right to fly with children. What they don't have is a right to assault the person seated in front of them. Don't kick my seat. Do you understand to what I'm objecting? Not you. Not your kid. I'm objecting to having my seat kicked. If you can't not kick my seat, you have no business flying.

I haven't heard anyone in this thread be hostile towards kids. I'm hostile to having my seat kicked. Have I been clear enough? Don't kick my seat!

Why would you yell to the person sitting directly behind you? Turn around and speak normally.

I find that "silent communication" is childish, no matter how effective it may be. I think it teaches the child a wrong way to deal with problems.

HTB.

[QUOTE=PTravel;7459450]
Of course parents have a right to fly with children. What they don't have is a right to assault the person seated in front of them. QUOTE]

So having your seat kicked by a child is a form of "assault"? A violent attack? Perhaps it is this type of hyperbole that might lead one to conclude that your issues with children go beyond having your seat kicked.
Please accept my apologies in advance if you have previously referred to other nuicances (POS, smelly passangers, seat grabbers, etc.) as "assault".

If having your seat kicked by a child is how you define assault then I envy the charmed life you must be leading. I am so sorry for the trauma that these violent and threatening attacts must have caused you.

[QUOTE=Micromegas;7464064]Yep.

Nope. Just an annoying one.

You can delude yourself into believing whatever you like. However, if you've actually read this thread, you would seen the post in which I said that children kicking seats are, in my experience, an extreme rarity -- only 2 in all the years of flying that I've done. There are, however, two parents who have posted to this thread who have said that the nuisance created by their children is MY problem, because they think their interests in flying with their kids trumps my own interest in just being left alone when I fly. Perhaps it is that kind of attitude that causes most of us to wince whenever we see they and their families board an aircraft.

I haven't encountered smelly passengers. I have, indeed, written about seat grabbers here on FT and, most recently (within the last week or so), about Customers of Size (and in exactly those terms). So please accept my apologies for thinking that you would rather believe that people who object to the annoying and intrusive conduct of your children are child haters, rather than recognize how rude and discourteous it is to inflict behavior like seat kicking on total strangers.

I've had my seat kicked on aircraft three times in my 20+ years of frequent flying. Twice was by children. However, once was by an adult. She was met by the police when we landed and would have been arrested, but for my good graces in electing not to press charges. As I said, you can delude yourself into believing whatever you want, but if you let your kid kick the seat of front of him or her, you are selfish, rude and entitlement demanding because, yes, you think it's perfectly fine to let your kid assault strangers. It is very sad, and not a little bit frightening, to watch the product of the "me" generation.

Unless there's more to the story, get a freakin' grip.
W/each post of yours, I find a stronger desire to PM you asking that you not use the internet as a depository for your stupidity.

In the very least, quit w/the tedious posting. Do you think we actually read all that BS?

I do, and it's not BS. Please speak for yourself.

I've posted about the incident before and, of course, there is more to the story. If you're interested, you can do search for it. However, instead, I'd strongly suggest you simply use FT's ignore function. You're clearly not interested in anything that might get in the way of your biases; it might improve your FT experience and help you avoid to TOS violations in the future. Don't send me a PM. You have nothing to say in which I might be the least interested.