JS

Of course they would -- not on an individual basis, but in the aggregate. That is exactly what AA was counting on. It didn't work out as they had planned, so MRTC is going bu-bye.


I did a quick study on myself and found that the probability of having a ***** or ******* in front of me is less than 2%.

The probability of poor window placement, chilly air and fixed armests in the exit row is 100%, so I will take my chances in a regular row.

From time to time, I do choose exit row if the flight is full just for variety. But I don't exercise my right to an advanced seat assignment in the exit row on every flight. On many flights the seat next to me is empty, and then the recline problem disappears entirely.

In short, the problem of someone in front of me reclining forcefully is rare, but when it does happen, it really pisses me off.

------------------
"Yippie-kay-yay, Mr. Falcon!" -- John McClane, Die Hard II As Seen on TV

uastarflyer

just saw this today

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._knee_defender

isn't a FTer quoted in here?

TrojanHorse

U beat me to it UA*flyer.. yes thats dan hammer that is quoted in there from FT

LouGroza

Giving 15% more legroom to any given number of seats in an existing cabin design could even require the removal of fewer than 15% of the seats. This is true because some percentage of the distance between seats is fixed (the back of the seat). For example, say that a seat with 30 inches of legroom requires 38 inches between seats (these numbers don't have to be realistic to illustrate the concept). So, with 4.5 more inches of legroom they'd now need to be 42.5 inches apart, an increase of only 4.5 / 38 = 11.84%.

However, your perception of this pricing issue also ignores operating leverage. Marginal cost is low, so selling x% fewer seats and producing x% less revenue lowers net income by a large multiple of x%.

Also, flight attendants are a step cost and if the reduction in seats were insufficient to reduce cabin crew, operating expense on a per seat basis would rise.

[This message has been edited by LouGroza (edited 10-24-2003).]

AisleSitter

I often recline my seat because my back and neck cannot handle an upright position for long periods. I recognize that extremely tall people have valid issues. If it is hitting your knees, and you are doing everything you can (that means your bag is in the overhead, and your feet are stretched out under the seat), then sure, I'll put the seat up.

But other than that reason, the seats are designed to recline, and that's the norm, and has always been the norm. Some people need it straight, some need it reclined; that's why the seats offer a choice of positions. I move mine back and forth over the entire flight.

Some of the posters on this forum are NOT tall and are coming up with lame rationalizations.

I do not accept the following excuses:

- When you recline the seat, the tray table hits me in the stomach.

WRONG, the tray table mounting bars are attached to the seat bottom
and that doesn't move when the seat reclines.

- I need to use my laptop.

NO, this is public transportation, not your office. Do you use a
laptop when you ride a crowded bus or subway? Using a laptop is a
bonus if the flight is near empty; if it's a full flight, don't expect
me to give you extra room so you can play High Powered Executive Person.

- The person behind you paid for the seat and surrounding space,
and by leaning your seat back, you've invaded that space.

WRONG, Aging. I always ask for a seat assignment in a reclining
row. The seat is designed to recline, and you can't say it is
"your" space. When I recline, it is now MY space. See how that works?

- My seat doesn't recline so you can't recline yours either.

When you were assigned a seat in the last row of the plane, you knew
what that meant when you bought the ticket. It's like the front row
of the movie theater. Deal with it.

- When you put your seat back, it knocked my wine over!

It wasn't me, because I'm experienced enough to recline it in stages to
give you a little warning. Besides, turbulence could knock your wine
over too -- stuff happens. This does not mean "One can never recline his seat".


If you are extremely tall, I would hope that you always ask for seating in an exit row. But you probably already thought of that.

My overall point is: I see people do ignorant things on planes all the time. They put stuff under their own seat (in my leg space), they don't wait their turn when exiting, and they try to carry full-sized luggage onto the plane. To me, a non-height-related complaint is ignorance, too.

LouGroza

Right on! ROTFLMAO



[This message has been edited by LouGroza (edited 10-24-2003).]

RS

You know I'm baffled by the geometry of the complaining tall people. When a seat is reclined the lower part of it really doesn't move back all that much.

I find it really hard to believe that a 6'2" person (just 5" taller than I am) can't lower and extend their legs under the seat. Now if your femurs are enormous and your knees are hitting the seat in front of you, I don't see how not reclining the coach seat in front of you will help that much. It seems to me that reclining only moves the lower part of the seat back in front of you an inch or two rearward. After all the top edge of the backrest rarely moves even 3 or 4 inches rearward.

LouGroza

That would impinge on the rights of laptop computers all over the nation, a persecuted, disadvantaged, and targeted class of chattel. Many very important travelers absolutely must keep their laptops within their sight and control at all times (meaning under the seat in front of them in JS's case as he or she has previously stated). That prevents them from ensconsing themselves in the warmth and succor of aisle seats in bulkhead rows. Obviously this is vital to the nation's economy and continued vitality so your understanding is greatly appreciated.

[This message has been edited by LouGroza (edited 10-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by LouGroza (edited 10-24-2003).]

ND Sol

This article was on the front page of the Business section of the Houston Chronicle today. This doesn't appear to be flying under the radar.

HigherFlyer

Well put! In fact, I think we should all agree that tall people with laptops are a special class of passengers so much more important than the rest of us that we should agree to a $100 per ticket surcharge, to pay for any tall person with a laptop to ride in F.
Better yet, we should charter special planes just for them. After all, the rest of us are only allowed to fly in order to pay for their very important business travel. Clearly, their laptops should have more rights than us mere seat jockeys. Why not make seats that can be pushed forward to make room for those precious PC's. Negative recline would be ok for me, since I don't need to use my laptop on the plane. It's safer to lean forward anyway. Like the brace position in your emergency instructions. Besides, it's easier for us to reach our carry ons from down there.

csb

Of course, the overhanging irony is that if they were really so freakin' important, they would already be in F.

I personally take my laptop and use it in Y--hey I've got all three seasons of The Family Guy on DVD to get through. MRTC and a generous amount of powerports in Y are big reasons for my loyalty towards AA.

I, however, do not consider my desire (notice I did not say "right" or "necessity") to use my laptop, to trump the right of the passenger in front of to recline his seat. All that I expect is that he do it slowly and take note of the presence of my laptop before reclining. I also consider it my responsibility (as well as monetary common sense) to make sure that my screen is not wedged up against the seat back.

csb

So, what are the odds that this Ron Popille wanna-be is giving refunds?

simpleflyer

I generally recline my seat slightly, but a long way from full position.

I would try and negotiate with anyone who found even this much recline uncomfortable.

But if someone behind me used that thing, before even attempting polite discourse, I'd calmly inform the airline personnel that the passenger behind me was intimidating me.

I'll put up with a lot from my fellow passengers in the name of keeping the peace. But when there's no peace to keep, where's the incentive?

By the way, I've had a DVT and I'm 5'2". So the inventor's inference that I somehow am immune to the problems of cramped space are invalid.

dbaker

Cite the FAR.

If everyone had a nickel for every time something was wrongly blamed on the FAA, using the knee defender in coach wouldn't be an issue.

Beckles

I'm 6'0" and was sitting in a non-exit row on a CRJ just last week and was thinking the exact same thing ... I never really gave it much thought, but was thinking about the whole kneedefender issue and took particular note of it since I hardly ever sit in a non-exit row coach seat. I suppose maybe US' CRJ's have a great deal of leg room, but that certainly wouldn't jive with everything else I've ever heard ...