Sneaking into First Class
Aug 22, 2002 | 9:22 am
#46
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 642
Let us take another example.
All the posters to this thread are standing in a common line at the airport, waiting to be served.
I come along, dressed in my smart business attire, and make polite small talk as I ease my way into the line, oh, say, 2 or 3 people from the head of said line.
Is what I have done stealing? None of us pays for the service of standing in line; none of us has rented the floorspace on which were standing, etc. etc. I have not taken anything that anyone else has paid for.
But, will the 2 or 3 people ahead of me in line say, more power to you! What about the 15 or so people behind? What if it were possible for me to say (as it might be) that my action will add negligibly to the time any of the people behind me spend additionally in line, so that I havent really hurt anyone, at least not to any significant degree?
The answer, as we all know, is that whether I butt ahead in line or grab a business class seat I didnt pay for, this may not seem like stealing, but I am threatening to destroy a system by which everyone, including myself, benefits. Whereas unlike the system I've violated, my action benefits me, and me alone, or rather, it benefits me alone ONLY if I am the only one, or at least one of only a few, who does it. My benefit from butting in or grabbing a business class seat comes only if everyone else is complying, or in other words, I benefit at the expense of everyone else who complies. If, on the other hand, we all take the so-called power available to us and as a mob rush the airline desk, or the business class section, then on average, we will all of us be more poorly served, and thus have less power, than if we comply by the seemingly oppressive rules of queues and seat assignments.
The system of ethics and fairness benefits us precisely because it keeps us from doing what we might really want to do. It also benefits us precisely because the rules for it are internalized, ethical ones, as opposed to externally imposed ones. As a general rule, airliners are as efficient, and as secure as they are not because, or at least not solely because, there are flight attendants and a pair of pilots on board to enforce rules. The relative numbers of staff to passengers precludes the ability of staff to physically compel people to follow rules. Just as the relative number of police to public precludes the formers ability to physically constrain the public from, say, murdering each other.
And as for hijackers, they are also following rules. However, in their case, they are the ones who are making up the rules, rules that benefit them alone. Just like I would be the one making up unilaterally applicable rules if I jump into line, or grab an airline seat. This is neither an efficient nor a secure way to allow people to conduct themselves, no matter how empowering it might seem to them at the time.
In no case do I want to be traveling with any of hijacker, line-jumper, or seat-grabber, although I concede that if it came down to the lesser of three evils, Id probably pick the second two over the first. But increasingly, I think youll find that post 9-11, people will be taking a different view of the behaviour of the other two. No matter how business-like and polite the offender (and werent Mohammed Etta and his buddies wearing business suits? And Im sure they were really polite, right up until the time the plane struck the tower.)
[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-22-2002).]
All the posters to this thread are standing in a common line at the airport, waiting to be served.
I come along, dressed in my smart business attire, and make polite small talk as I ease my way into the line, oh, say, 2 or 3 people from the head of said line.
Is what I have done stealing? None of us pays for the service of standing in line; none of us has rented the floorspace on which were standing, etc. etc. I have not taken anything that anyone else has paid for.
But, will the 2 or 3 people ahead of me in line say, more power to you! What about the 15 or so people behind? What if it were possible for me to say (as it might be) that my action will add negligibly to the time any of the people behind me spend additionally in line, so that I havent really hurt anyone, at least not to any significant degree?
The answer, as we all know, is that whether I butt ahead in line or grab a business class seat I didnt pay for, this may not seem like stealing, but I am threatening to destroy a system by which everyone, including myself, benefits. Whereas unlike the system I've violated, my action benefits me, and me alone, or rather, it benefits me alone ONLY if I am the only one, or at least one of only a few, who does it. My benefit from butting in or grabbing a business class seat comes only if everyone else is complying, or in other words, I benefit at the expense of everyone else who complies. If, on the other hand, we all take the so-called power available to us and as a mob rush the airline desk, or the business class section, then on average, we will all of us be more poorly served, and thus have less power, than if we comply by the seemingly oppressive rules of queues and seat assignments.
The system of ethics and fairness benefits us precisely because it keeps us from doing what we might really want to do. It also benefits us precisely because the rules for it are internalized, ethical ones, as opposed to externally imposed ones. As a general rule, airliners are as efficient, and as secure as they are not because, or at least not solely because, there are flight attendants and a pair of pilots on board to enforce rules. The relative numbers of staff to passengers precludes the ability of staff to physically compel people to follow rules. Just as the relative number of police to public precludes the formers ability to physically constrain the public from, say, murdering each other.
And as for hijackers, they are also following rules. However, in their case, they are the ones who are making up the rules, rules that benefit them alone. Just like I would be the one making up unilaterally applicable rules if I jump into line, or grab an airline seat. This is neither an efficient nor a secure way to allow people to conduct themselves, no matter how empowering it might seem to them at the time.
In no case do I want to be traveling with any of hijacker, line-jumper, or seat-grabber, although I concede that if it came down to the lesser of three evils, Id probably pick the second two over the first. But increasingly, I think youll find that post 9-11, people will be taking a different view of the behaviour of the other two. No matter how business-like and polite the offender (and werent Mohammed Etta and his buddies wearing business suits? And Im sure they were really polite, right up until the time the plane struck the tower.)
[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-22-2002).]
Aug 22, 2002 | 10:04 am
#47
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,700
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by patricia:
dishonest..yes
If I was the FA I would have marked his file so he was watched more closely</font>
dishonest..yes
If I was the FA I would have marked his file so he was watched more closely</font>
Shades of a Seinfeld episode.
Aug 22, 2002 | 8:56 pm
#48
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: HKG
Programs: CX DM, SQ, BA, TG, Sheba, VN, MPO since 1980
Posts: 1,058
I read all this with interest. if you see someone in a seat they do not belong to you should report it. Why - because firstly the cabin crew are not doing their job with possible catastrophic results and secondly because the airlines have (supposedly) strict safety rules. The fact that the smartly dressed Enron Finance executive queued up in the Economy line and then chose to sit in the F or C class means that there is one checked in pax missing from Y class and accordingly his bags should be offloaded and there is also an additional pax in F or C class who should not be there , so who is he and what is he doing there and how did he get there ? One would think in the shades of 911 that everyone should have an interest in their and others' security. I would say that if you tried this out on CX or SQ or El Al you would soon be told where to go. Indeed they call out the pax names on the intercon and if no pax appears in the correct seat the bags are offloaded.
As for the legal aspect in British law, obtaining services by deception means the person has knowingly with guilty mind obtained those services , so having queued up in the Y class checkin queue and holding a Y class seat numbered boarding pass, not having been allowed into the Business class lounge and not being allowed Priority boarding at the gate to the aircraft would tend to signify that anyone knowingly availing himself of services he has not paid for is committing a criminal offence and civilly is guilty of trespass.
As for the legal aspect in British law, obtaining services by deception means the person has knowingly with guilty mind obtained those services , so having queued up in the Y class checkin queue and holding a Y class seat numbered boarding pass, not having been allowed into the Business class lounge and not being allowed Priority boarding at the gate to the aircraft would tend to signify that anyone knowingly availing himself of services he has not paid for is committing a criminal offence and civilly is guilty of trespass.
Aug 22, 2002 | 10:20 pm
#49
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SFO/ATL/MEL/BKK
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Funny to come across this thread. I was on IAH-SFO last night CO First in 2E and in front of me a woman comes in and takes 1E. The FA takes her coat, and she the lady is *****ing about not being able to check her carryon, the FA offers help yet the lady says no. She asks for two Gin Tonics, and is sitting there for quite a while. I would say she was the fifth person on board. Well a couple comes up and the wife is in 1E. So the lady does not move until the FA comes. The lady cannot find her BP.. After arguing she finds it, and she is way in back. So she grabs her drinks and gets up to take another seat in F!!! She is guided out, and finds a seat in back. I was suprised that she resisted. My only complaint was the couple in 1E and F were very snobby, and spent most of the fligh making fun of the lady and making comments which is very un called for...
Aug 23, 2002 | 1:20 am
#50
Original Poster
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Location: Still going through ORD security when boarding has already started
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Some people will do anything for a gin and tonic 
Aug 25, 2002 | 4:50 am
#51
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Chicago, IL (2 miles from ORD)
Posts: 660
I agree that intentionally taking a seat in a higher class of service is stealing. If you accidentally take a seat in a higher class, I do not believe that is stealing, unless you become aware it was accidental, then you are back to stealing again.
Seats while traveling comparison to seats at a sporting event. A bit different, I think.
On a flight, most would agree it is ok to move around within in the cabin, just not to a seat in a cabin with a higher level of service. At a sporting event, most of the seats are general admisson and usually have no distinguishing barriers within the general admission sections. Sometimes there are club levels or suites, but most people know you can't move to those seats if you have a general admission ticket. I believe that as long as I remain in general admission seats, I do not see any problem moving if nobody objects and I am not displacing anyone. At the sporting events I attend, all general admission seats are the same price, so only priority is the difference in seat assignments - just like in coach(elites get the exit rows and more forward seats). Since all general admission seats have the same level of service(at least that I have been too), the only difference is the view - just like a window or isle in coach class.
So I justify that stealing a better view in general admission sport arenas is no different than stealing a view in coach class.
[This message has been edited by Aubie (edited 08-25-2002).]
Seats while traveling comparison to seats at a sporting event. A bit different, I think.
On a flight, most would agree it is ok to move around within in the cabin, just not to a seat in a cabin with a higher level of service. At a sporting event, most of the seats are general admisson and usually have no distinguishing barriers within the general admission sections. Sometimes there are club levels or suites, but most people know you can't move to those seats if you have a general admission ticket. I believe that as long as I remain in general admission seats, I do not see any problem moving if nobody objects and I am not displacing anyone. At the sporting events I attend, all general admission seats are the same price, so only priority is the difference in seat assignments - just like in coach(elites get the exit rows and more forward seats). Since all general admission seats have the same level of service(at least that I have been too), the only difference is the view - just like a window or isle in coach class.
So I justify that stealing a better view in general admission sport arenas is no different than stealing a view in coach class.
[This message has been edited by Aubie (edited 08-25-2002).]
Sep 5, 2002 | 12:50 am
#52
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Malta
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, Bonvoy LT Titanium
Posts: 416
Back in the early nineties a relative "El Bandido Zorro" did it a few times. A West Coast lawyer he knew told him that he always went up to F after the meal service when the lights were switched off. If there were free seats, he approached the FA in charge, said he had hurt his back, offered a $50 bill, and asked if he could stay for "a couple of hours", until he felt better. He claimed it worked most of the time, with LH and AA.
My relative then tried it maybe 10 times. On LH it never worked, but on AA it worked twice, so he said. Once the greedy FA asked for $100, which he gave her. Once he did it on IB, but the entire F Cabin was empty (747-200 on top),no FA anywhere to be seen. He just took a seat, and was woken up 2 hours before arrival with a breakfast tray.
The problem, he said, is usually that you have a problem with the hand luggage which is still in the overhead locker over 47D, and you have to wait until the entire plane has emptied to retrieve it.
Now, regarding ethics, he did not eat or drink F food, and he paid - that the FA did not properly book the extra money, and did not give him a receipt is his/her business, even though my relative could/should have assumed so.
"Edited on legal advice"
[This message has been edited by Zorro (edited 09-05-2002).]
My relative then tried it maybe 10 times. On LH it never worked, but on AA it worked twice, so he said. Once the greedy FA asked for $100, which he gave her. Once he did it on IB, but the entire F Cabin was empty (747-200 on top),no FA anywhere to be seen. He just took a seat, and was woken up 2 hours before arrival with a breakfast tray.
The problem, he said, is usually that you have a problem with the hand luggage which is still in the overhead locker over 47D, and you have to wait until the entire plane has emptied to retrieve it.
Now, regarding ethics, he did not eat or drink F food, and he paid - that the FA did not properly book the extra money, and did not give him a receipt is his/her business, even though my relative could/should have assumed so.
"Edited on legal advice"
[This message has been edited by Zorro (edited 09-05-2002).]
Sep 5, 2002 | 3:02 am
#53
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: HKG
Programs: CX DM, SQ, BA, TG, Sheba, VN, MPO since 1980
Posts: 1,058
Ladies and Gentlemen of the E-Jury
the defendant El Bandido Zorro aka Econo Misto stands before you by his own admission
the defendant admits that he knowingly conspired with Granny Flyer a flight attendant of American Airlines to defraud the said airline of payment for services namely: an inflight upgrade from Herd class to First class
that he knowingly then paid funds in the sum of US$ 100 to the said Granny Flyer in full knowledge that this sum was a bribe for Granny Flyer not to perform her paid duties with that said airline and by stating dishonestly that he had injured his back
the defendant subsequently admits he availed himself of the illegally obtained cabin services and futhermore boasts of two other similar sets of offenses, one on American Airlines, one on Ibreria and that he also admits to failed attempts to obtain services by deception on Lufthansa
The defendant will tell you by way of mitigation that he did not avail himself of food and drink in the illegally obtained F class seats he occupied three times on three different occasions and that he paid money to the flight attendants but as we can see such payment was bribe money and the defendant knew full well , having conspired with Granny Flyer and AN Other that the actual inflight upgrade cost was multiples in excess of the admitted bribe amount
The defendant might also state that he subsequently found his hand luggage had been rifled during his absence from his paid seat number 47D and that he suspected Granny Flyer , a person of obvious ill repute, of this offense, that he is a frequent flyer (or was until he was banned) of the LH Senator and Iberia frequent flyer clubs, two airlines that he conspired to cheat
I seek severe punishment for this repeat offender ladies and gentlemen of the jury in that he be trampled by the Herd and forced to marry Granny Flyer
the defendant El Bandido Zorro aka Econo Misto stands before you by his own admission
the defendant admits that he knowingly conspired with Granny Flyer a flight attendant of American Airlines to defraud the said airline of payment for services namely: an inflight upgrade from Herd class to First class
that he knowingly then paid funds in the sum of US$ 100 to the said Granny Flyer in full knowledge that this sum was a bribe for Granny Flyer not to perform her paid duties with that said airline and by stating dishonestly that he had injured his back
the defendant subsequently admits he availed himself of the illegally obtained cabin services and futhermore boasts of two other similar sets of offenses, one on American Airlines, one on Ibreria and that he also admits to failed attempts to obtain services by deception on Lufthansa
The defendant will tell you by way of mitigation that he did not avail himself of food and drink in the illegally obtained F class seats he occupied three times on three different occasions and that he paid money to the flight attendants but as we can see such payment was bribe money and the defendant knew full well , having conspired with Granny Flyer and AN Other that the actual inflight upgrade cost was multiples in excess of the admitted bribe amount
The defendant might also state that he subsequently found his hand luggage had been rifled during his absence from his paid seat number 47D and that he suspected Granny Flyer , a person of obvious ill repute, of this offense, that he is a frequent flyer (or was until he was banned) of the LH Senator and Iberia frequent flyer clubs, two airlines that he conspired to cheat
I seek severe punishment for this repeat offender ladies and gentlemen of the jury in that he be trampled by the Herd and forced to marry Granny Flyer
Sep 5, 2002 | 10:59 am
#55
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Malta
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, Bonvoy LT Titanium
Posts: 416
Your Honor, Ladies and Gentlemen of the E-Jury:
As counsel for the defendant El Bandido Zorro I respectfully request summary dismissal of this patently frivolous lawsuit on the following grounds:
1. Expiration of the satute of limitations
2. Jurisdiction. The alleged crime on IB took place outside the jurisdiction of this court since there is no independent thread for IB on FT. The alleged crime on AA took place before Internet time. All civilised nations have honored the principle of nulla poena sine lege.
Should the venerable court decide to proceed with the action, I apply to dismiss on the grounds of lack of evidence. There exists no evidence other than hearsay. Our team has researched the facts and has established that
My client has a long history of back pain, as evidenced by numerous medical certificates, among them from Doctor C. Mepagas Certifico from the internationally recognised Centro de Salud Municipal de Villariba de Conejos, Provincia de Caceres, Extremadura, Spain. It is therefore slanderous to claim that my client stated dishonestly that his back hurts. Moreover, as evidenced by said medical certificate, the pain increases as a function of the proximity to coach/tourist class seats.
As evidenced in Affidavit IIc 1) attached, sworn by my client, on the flight AA 3967 from Portland to Barcelona on the Feb. 29, 1991 he sat in Seat 46E until 1h 45 after take off, when his back pain increased considerably. He pressed the Call Button overhead in order to request a glass of water to take with his medication. After 35 minutes no response came from the flight attendants, and he rose (under considerable pain, I might add) to proceed to the galley and obtain some liquid for his medication. He found three (3) flight attendants, one of which was busy applying her lipstick, the other two in heated disussion about the relative merits of the shopping facilities in Barcelona and Paris. Proceeding further to the washrooms in the hope of procuring some water, he found that one restroom wasa blocked with the excess luggage of the crew, and the other one had 8 adults and three minors waiting.
The backpain having increased on account of the movement required (which prompt attention by the crew could have alleviated) my client weighed the consequences of crossing the dividing curtain into Business Class. I might add that this decision was not taken lightly and was solely prompted by the concern for his health. Upon finding that the entire cabin had been darkened he proceeded in the direction of a small ray of light emanating from behind a further curtain, which he later found out belonged to the First Class Cabin.
Again considering the potential negative consequences of crossing a further threshold, he stumbled into the F Cabin where Granny Flyer received him and, being clearly preoccupied by his condition ordered him to sit down. The tone of her voice indicated that she was fully in command of the cabin, and was authorized to act in such fashion by the Captain. May I remind you,Your Honor, esteemed E-Jury, that according to the Warsaw Convention of 1948, Art 38, Para II, Subsection c, the instructions of the Captain of an aircraft have to be obeyed at all times.
Clearly, given his experience on the plane so far, my client was convinced that a glass of water for his medicine was not likely to be given easily by the crew. He therefore decided to offer some donation to the Single Female Over 55 Flight Attendant Retirement Fund in order to procure an alleviation to his ailment. For this purpose he had taken out US$ 50 from the College Fund of his eldest daughter, Mari Pili del Zorro. He was saddened and disturbed by Granny Fliers insistence on $ 100, but in light of his reduced faculties, and in gratitude for a few hours in Seat 2C he decided not to press charges.
Should the Court decide not to dismiss charges on the above grounds, I respectfully request dismissal on the grounds of negligible value.
Even if my client is judged to have obtained payment for services fraudulently, these services have no value after the closing of the doors and completion of boarding. No body offered to pay money or miles for an upgrade at the time of the alleged incident, neither did the Airline offer these seats in exchange for any monetary consideration. Indeed, my client suspects that the First Class Seat was offered to him in order to deflect possible lawsuits for breach of contract caused by the lack of service and care due to passengers with a medical condition in coach.
Finally, should the court decide to find my client guilty, I must consider the propsed punishment, marriage to Granny Flyer, as unnecessary harsh and cruel. Since a similar incident is alleged to have involved my client on Flight 3308, with Chief Purser Seorita. T. Tagrande (aged 21), Flight 4562 with Chief Purser Srta. Q. Lore Dondo (aged 22), and Flight 5589 with Chief Purser P. Erna Larga, I request that my client shall be married to either of these young ladies under the law of the Central District of Isfahan, Isl. Rep. of Iran, which provides for temporary marriage licences for periods not exceeding 12 hours. My client has offered to pay for the cost of accomodation during the wedding night out of his own Frequent Flier/Hotel Reward Programs.
I rest my case, Your Honor
As counsel for the defendant El Bandido Zorro I respectfully request summary dismissal of this patently frivolous lawsuit on the following grounds:
1. Expiration of the satute of limitations
2. Jurisdiction. The alleged crime on IB took place outside the jurisdiction of this court since there is no independent thread for IB on FT. The alleged crime on AA took place before Internet time. All civilised nations have honored the principle of nulla poena sine lege.
Should the venerable court decide to proceed with the action, I apply to dismiss on the grounds of lack of evidence. There exists no evidence other than hearsay. Our team has researched the facts and has established that
My client has a long history of back pain, as evidenced by numerous medical certificates, among them from Doctor C. Mepagas Certifico from the internationally recognised Centro de Salud Municipal de Villariba de Conejos, Provincia de Caceres, Extremadura, Spain. It is therefore slanderous to claim that my client stated dishonestly that his back hurts. Moreover, as evidenced by said medical certificate, the pain increases as a function of the proximity to coach/tourist class seats.
As evidenced in Affidavit IIc 1) attached, sworn by my client, on the flight AA 3967 from Portland to Barcelona on the Feb. 29, 1991 he sat in Seat 46E until 1h 45 after take off, when his back pain increased considerably. He pressed the Call Button overhead in order to request a glass of water to take with his medication. After 35 minutes no response came from the flight attendants, and he rose (under considerable pain, I might add) to proceed to the galley and obtain some liquid for his medication. He found three (3) flight attendants, one of which was busy applying her lipstick, the other two in heated disussion about the relative merits of the shopping facilities in Barcelona and Paris. Proceeding further to the washrooms in the hope of procuring some water, he found that one restroom wasa blocked with the excess luggage of the crew, and the other one had 8 adults and three minors waiting.
The backpain having increased on account of the movement required (which prompt attention by the crew could have alleviated) my client weighed the consequences of crossing the dividing curtain into Business Class. I might add that this decision was not taken lightly and was solely prompted by the concern for his health. Upon finding that the entire cabin had been darkened he proceeded in the direction of a small ray of light emanating from behind a further curtain, which he later found out belonged to the First Class Cabin.
Again considering the potential negative consequences of crossing a further threshold, he stumbled into the F Cabin where Granny Flyer received him and, being clearly preoccupied by his condition ordered him to sit down. The tone of her voice indicated that she was fully in command of the cabin, and was authorized to act in such fashion by the Captain. May I remind you,Your Honor, esteemed E-Jury, that according to the Warsaw Convention of 1948, Art 38, Para II, Subsection c, the instructions of the Captain of an aircraft have to be obeyed at all times.
Clearly, given his experience on the plane so far, my client was convinced that a glass of water for his medicine was not likely to be given easily by the crew. He therefore decided to offer some donation to the Single Female Over 55 Flight Attendant Retirement Fund in order to procure an alleviation to his ailment. For this purpose he had taken out US$ 50 from the College Fund of his eldest daughter, Mari Pili del Zorro. He was saddened and disturbed by Granny Fliers insistence on $ 100, but in light of his reduced faculties, and in gratitude for a few hours in Seat 2C he decided not to press charges.
Should the Court decide not to dismiss charges on the above grounds, I respectfully request dismissal on the grounds of negligible value.
Even if my client is judged to have obtained payment for services fraudulently, these services have no value after the closing of the doors and completion of boarding. No body offered to pay money or miles for an upgrade at the time of the alleged incident, neither did the Airline offer these seats in exchange for any monetary consideration. Indeed, my client suspects that the First Class Seat was offered to him in order to deflect possible lawsuits for breach of contract caused by the lack of service and care due to passengers with a medical condition in coach.
Finally, should the court decide to find my client guilty, I must consider the propsed punishment, marriage to Granny Flyer, as unnecessary harsh and cruel. Since a similar incident is alleged to have involved my client on Flight 3308, with Chief Purser Seorita. T. Tagrande (aged 21), Flight 4562 with Chief Purser Srta. Q. Lore Dondo (aged 22), and Flight 5589 with Chief Purser P. Erna Larga, I request that my client shall be married to either of these young ladies under the law of the Central District of Isfahan, Isl. Rep. of Iran, which provides for temporary marriage licences for periods not exceeding 12 hours. My client has offered to pay for the cost of accomodation during the wedding night out of his own Frequent Flier/Hotel Reward Programs.
I rest my case, Your Honor
Sep 5, 2002 | 11:02 am
#56
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Malta
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, Bonvoy LT Titanium
Posts: 416
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by El Cochinito:
Juror #1 votes Guilty as charged Your Honor!</font>
Juror #1 votes Guilty as charged Your Honor!</font>
Sep 5, 2002 | 12:46 pm
#57
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 34
As a flight attendant, I do see it happen on occasion, not too often though. Most people do move to their assigned seats without complaint. Of course, there are a few who try to argue their way. Many of you brought up good points about "is it stealing?", I would have to say it is. I don't think, either before or after 9/11, that this person would neccessarily be a threat. Like I said, most people just get up and move to their assigned seats. No, sitting there may not be against the law. But refusing to comply with crew member instructions is. If it were to escalate authorities would be involved when the aircraft reached the gate. Obviously, it's in everyone's best interest to not do that, most people would just be removed for not complying, provided the plane as not taken off. The story this guy claims seems hardly believable (LAX-SYD) We do notice the count and I cannot think of any of my co-workers who would allow it. Those who do... shame on them. Their the reason people think they can and should get away with it.
Sep 5, 2002 | 4:06 pm
#58
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 299
This Juror votes...Hang Them....On a HNL-SFO a few years ago....My Dad was flying stand by. He was the last one on. The Gate told him to take any seat! So he sat in FC...
ZZ
"Anyone try a $50 in the ticket jacket at the gate?" I bet the Airlines test their employees this way!
ZZ
"Anyone try a $50 in the ticket jacket at the gate?" I bet the Airlines test their employees this way!
Sep 5, 2002 | 7:15 pm
#59
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 53
As a flight attendant I have had it happen more than a few times since I work primarily transcons. The first time a woman plops her self down during the first beverage service, I ask if I can help her, she says "get me a bloody mary", I say "get me your boarding pass" she says "I can't find it", I get the manifest and ask her name, now she knows she's busted and gets all defensive, starts spewing the "I work for Gillette and do you know how much money my company spends on this airline", I replied "I have been shaving since I was 16 and never recieved a free razor so either you can give me your credit card, move back to your seat or the captain will have the authorities at the gate to meet you." She didn't like that and wanted my name, I wrote down my name, supervisors name, phone number, the number for consumer affairs and told her to have at it. She picked up all her crap in a huff and moved back to coach, the rest of first class gave her an ovation as she left which really pissed her off.
One other time that stands out was during boarding on a 767, myself and another flight attendant were standing behind the bulkhead seperating biz from the lav and heard this lady say "let's just sit here, they'll never know", right away the other girl starts to head out to nab them, I grab her and tell her it's time to have a little fun, we go out of our way to show them biz service, the predepartures, menus and how the best part of the flight is the warm cookies and milk before landing, they are practically salivating at this point. Finally the door closes and we go get our copy of the manifest and make a big prodction of doing the head count, we do it about 3 times while pointing while we count heads, we ask a couple of the people to see their boarding passes and then head to the ploppers, when they show us their boarding passes we tell them "Oh, these are not your seats, you are in the back of the plane, please take your bags with you." Once again the real biz folks got a howl out of it and made it a fun flight for all of us.
So beware if you are on one of my flights, I always count in premium cabins, LOL.
Mike-BOS
One other time that stands out was during boarding on a 767, myself and another flight attendant were standing behind the bulkhead seperating biz from the lav and heard this lady say "let's just sit here, they'll never know", right away the other girl starts to head out to nab them, I grab her and tell her it's time to have a little fun, we go out of our way to show them biz service, the predepartures, menus and how the best part of the flight is the warm cookies and milk before landing, they are practically salivating at this point. Finally the door closes and we go get our copy of the manifest and make a big prodction of doing the head count, we do it about 3 times while pointing while we count heads, we ask a couple of the people to see their boarding passes and then head to the ploppers, when they show us their boarding passes we tell them "Oh, these are not your seats, you are in the back of the plane, please take your bags with you." Once again the real biz folks got a howl out of it and made it a fun flight for all of us.
So beware if you are on one of my flights, I always count in premium cabins, LOL.
Mike-BOS