anonplz

Well, yes, of course there is such a thing as theft of service, so, I guess this is technically what he is doing, but if I was in business class, I don't think I would say anything unless he stank or had a cell phone

While we're still in a reprimanding mood, somebody tell those riders who sneak into the first class cabins on the TGV... Actually, this happened once, in Morocco - I was in first class on the train from Casablanca to Marrakech, and a party of three men got in the cabin with me - didn't mind at all, and then the conductor came around and sent them back to the cattle cars - I actually felt bad for them

Frequent Freak

How are you so sure that a guy with this set of ethics was telling the truth here?

Doppy

I flew STL-LAS a couple months ago and a mother and son duo tried to pull this.

I was flying in F. They boarded when their group was called, and were directly behind me as we entered the aircraft. I took my seat, the last F seat in the cabin, then the the mother told her son to quickly slip into the seats across the aisle from me.

They got preflight drinks, but once the FA got the manifest, she must have realized something was wrong, because there were only two pax assigned to the F cabin. She asked to see the scamsters' boarding passes; they claimed they didn't know there was assigned seating (they knew enough to read their group numbers, but they couldn't find seat assignments? I don't think so. Besides, why wouldn't have all those 50 people who boarded ahead of them taken the big seats up front?).

Anyway, I'm relatively young, so I don't know if they thought I was scamming a seat and they'd jump on the train, or what. But, they were sent back to their assigned seats.

d

Steve M

One time a person was already sitting in my assigned F seat. I showed him my boarding pass for the seat he was in, and asked him to check his (thinking merely that he was in the wrong F seat). He said "oh well," then got up and walked back to the coach cabin. He was clearly an amateur at this (in that he didn't wait until the end of boarding), and a couple of FA's that overheard this started laughing quietly.

wideman

I think the man's behavior was absolutely reprehensible. Alas, ~20 years ago, I did (more or less) the same thing myself, though mostly innocently.

I was flying lug(Lugano)-zrh-bos on SR, and had no intention of sitting anywhere but my assigned seat in the back. The FA at the door of the zrh-bos flight asked for my boarding pass, and I unknowingly (really!)fished out the lug-zrh bp, which had the seat number (8B) in really big type, and the flight number and city pair in really small type. The FA smiled and pointed me to 8B, which I occupied for the flight.

Now, I admit that I immeditely realized my mistake. And I am sure that all, or most, or several, of you would have Done The Right Thing and gone back to 47H or wherever. Moreover, I would strongly discourage any of you from trying this, and I would be brokenhearted if I thought that even one of you would be corrupted by the idea.

Jon Toner

A slightly modified version of the "nobody got hurt" defense doesn't change the fact that he is availing himself of something to which he :

A) was not invited to
B) has not paid for the privilege

If he had paid for FC, been upgraded by the airline, used miles or been invited up by the FA, he has a right to be there. Otherwise he doesn't.

Yes, that FC seat will fly to the destination too, but he hasn't earned the right for his butt to be in it.

------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

LemonThrower

For those who do not think this is stealing, I would like to know your opinion of sneaking into coach without a ticket.

Frequent Freak

If the offending passenger eats a first-class meal, or avails himself of free booze, then he most certainly is taking something (physical) he didn't pay for. Heck, you could extend this to things like using the extra entertainment channels, the hot towels or the extra service from the FAs.

Even if he doesn't eat or drink... if you steal cable TV but never watch it, or if you pirate software but never install it, try arguing in court you're not stealing.

It's very hard for me to see a grey area here.

CountinPlaces

Just curious,

Would those who view this as stealing consider it theft to walk down front at an Montreal Expos game when you have nose-bleed seats? (Expos stadium is usually near empty.) Of course, many of you would never attend the game in the first place but that is not the point.

I believe the principle is the same. Should someone shout "thief!!!?"

I would not do it because first class is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition for me - miles are more important. However, I think most of you would have a double standard in regards to my example.
"Oh c'mon, there's empty seats down there."

aisleorwindow

Thanks everyone for a very interesting discussion so far. It seems like this is a little more common than I thought, as so many of you had had similar experiences (thanks to wideman for your honesty, good story). I would be interested to hear what you think of this from a security standpoint. In the post 9/11 world could this guy be considered a security risk and therefore get into serious trouble?

R&R

At a local bar, there is FREE Bingo a couple of nites a week for prizes of a household nature, bar tabs, brunches and tickets.
Only ONE card per player permitted or you forfeit any win.

Yet, you will see folks playing two cards!

Is that stealing?

Frequent Freak

Anyone who wants to be closer to the Montreal Expos deserves his fate.

Seriously, I often try to move to a better seat at baseball games that aren't too crowded. In fact I joke about this regarding the White Sox, whose slogan should be, "If you find yourself in someone else's seat, move to a better one!"

But it's hardly the same as moving from Y to F. It's more like moving from row 28 in Y to row 24 in Y. Wherever you are in Y it's pretty much the same product and service provided (although I'm sure someone will argue this), just as in most ballparks it's the same product whether you're in the 10th row of the upper deck or the first. You don't get better food, free beer or improved service by switching seats. And although many parks now have club seating, someone is usually checking your ticket before you can sit there.

ORDguy

Absolutely! If this guy is already intent on committing a crime (i.e. theft of services) who knows what else he may be up too.



[This message has been edited by ORDguy (edited 08-12-2002).]

anonplz

l etoile

First off it's not a question of "viewing" it as stealing. It is stealing. Airlines are not selling seats, they are selling transportation with different levels of service and comfort that cost different prices. Take that which you did not pay for and you are stealing. If moving into first is not stealing, then neither is simply walking on the plane into coach without having paid.

The sporting event is the same as are concerts and plays. If I pay for $10 standing room only at the back of the theater and run up and take the $400 box seats, I'm stealing. Most places I go to watch games, concerts and theater productions do seem to have paid staff making sure this doesn't happen though.

On the flip side, I have been to empty theaters and stadiums where the staff has invited people to come closer for the benefit of the players and actors, I presume. This would be the equivalent of an operational upgrade, which would not be any sort of theft.