evergrn

Interesting to hear some of you say you'd rule out Y if flying red-eye.
I think I've been inclined towards the opposite because, at least with red-eye flights, I'm more likely to sleep even in Y and therefore the flight may feel shorter and I'm not awake the entire time suffering in sardine can.
When flying TPAC, I find it important to try to sleep at least a few hours whether it's daytime departure or red-eye. Daytime departure + Y seat = pain and insomnia.

I'm trying to get there with having to pay 2x the money for PE. Unfortunately I think I will forever balk at paying for J. I don't think I will ever reach that financial milestone where I can afford J for every long-haul trips (I do 3-5 a year).

evergrn

I think 9-abreast 787 feels even a bit worse than most 3-4-3 77W I've been in.
But yeah, either way, it's not fun.
E+ on UA only helps marginally, because it's the width where I'm hurting the most.

darthbimmer

I try not to fly any flight without some kind of preferred seat. Aisle seat with extra leg room or exit row. UA's Economy Plus (coach with more leg room) means a lot to me. On routes over 6 hours I always price out a higher cabin and choose it when it makes sense financially. At least half the time, though, the premium cabin is too much of a price increase. Thus I've flown nonstop flights in UA's E+ up to 14.5 hours, longer with connections.

applegrcoug

That is a great formula that seems to fit my way of thinking as well.

I have flown from Sea-Ord-Fra-Kbp in Y...totally miserable experience. Super long flight time in the middle seat feeling icky by the end and terrible jet lag.

Also did Sea-Ord-Fra-Vce in F. Very nice. Showered in Fra and had enough energy to power through. Still nasty jet lag, but I was able to get enough rest on the plane to get to the hotel and get some food. In Kiev upon arrival, I think I fell asleep at dinner.

Sea-xxx-Mco is not bad at all...get out, walk and move and ready to go for leg two.

Sea-Mco which is pretty much max for here, and I get antsy and achy knees.

That is a good rule of thumb formula!

seat38a

Recently did a 3+ hour flight in Chile round trip. 2 hours is about the limit my lower back and ... can handle. Was kind of a forced experiment because there are no business class on any of the domestic Chile flights including on LAN. I even paid extra for row 1 seats which come with substantially more legroom.

The_Bouncer

I guess it depends on your personal ability to sleep in Y. I personally cannot sleep sitting up, so any night flight in Y means a sleepless night. An overnight westbound basically means 48 hours without sleep.

84fiero

My (and my wife's) rule of thumb is to begin considering moving up from Y at about the 8 hour mark (depends on the specifics) and 100% moving up after 10 hours (block time) for a non-stop flight. If there are shot-haul flights as part of the itinerary before/after an 8+ hour long-haul, then the 8 or 10 hours decreases. Of course just a rule of thumb, not to say we wouldn't ever choose differently in the right situation.

Daytime trips where I'm not liable to be tired are on thing but if I know I'll need to sleep, I just can't do it in Y anymore. I used to be able to sleep anywhere, even sitting up in Y. But I can't do it anymore - well, not for more than maybe a 15 minute catnap. Related to overall sleep issues I have though but I don't see it improving as time goes on.

rankourabu

We had a thread like this before. Sometimes its not a question of "affordability" . Its more of a question of value derived from a premium cabin. Some people see value in flying J, most dont - especially if its one's own money, not someone elses (work)

If I had to work/meeting and be productive after a long flight, I'd definitely see more value in flying J. Thankfully, I dont.

SEA-Flyer

It's worked pretty well for me - I've done daylight flights in Y in recent years:

CDG-DXB (7 hours + 2 timezones) - ok
DXB-MRU (7 hours + 0 timezones) - ok
JNB-DXB (8 hours + 2 timezones) - this was just barely tolerable.

(note that these were connections, such as CDG-DXB-MRU, but the connection in DXB was overnight in a hotel bed, so the connection was not really a factor in trip length).

But if any of these were redeyes, I think it would have been too much for me.

All of my other longhauls have been up front, and have been fine.

The_Bouncer

This. I travel for anything up to 20 weeks a year, mainly to avoid the Austrian winter (I am semi retired and work seasonally).

My resources are reasonable but not limitless, so I could fly J all the time if I really wanted to. However, it is a trade off.

I spend much of my off season in South Africa, where I can rent a very comfortable suite, 5 minutes walk from the seaside bars and steak houses (and 10 minutes stagger back&#128521 for less than $400 a week.

The cost of living here is also incredibly cheap. That means that one round trip Y-J upgrade represents weeks of expenses.

At 42, I have (hopefully) many more years of travel to budget for, and I don't want to risk having to curtail my travel in the future, because I have spent too much on things that I don't value highly.

Yes, business class is nice. But is it really worth 3 weeks of digging my car out of the snow?

HMO

I would like to say 0, but I work for a small company, where everybody flies in economy, even international, even the owner.

For leisure... I don't have a lot of money or miles, therefore I always travel in Y, even for very long trips.

evergrn

After getting some great input from many posts here and then taking into account my own threshold, I too have now come up with a formula.
Alright, don't mock me. I'm a math geek.

* Flight stress = [3 x (# flight hours)exp1.1 + (# time zone changes)exp1.1] x (1/5)
Ex:
SEA-TYO (10hr, 7 time zone changes) = 9.3
JNB-ATL (16hr, 7 time zone changes) = 14.4
BOS-SFO (5.5hr, 3 time zone changes) = 4.6

* Seat comfort = 14 + [9 x (seat width - 18.5) + 0.7 x (pitch - 36) x (absolute value of [pitch - 36])exp1.1)] x (1/6)
Ex:
18.5" wide & 36" pitch (PE): 14
17" wide & 34" pitch (E+): 11.2
17" wide & 32" pitch (long-haul Y): 9.6
17" wide & 30" pitch (domestic Y): 6.7

Seat comfort value would ideally exceed Flight stress value.

HMO

I need to improve my Excel-fu. I'm not able to duplicate your results...

ellielovesem

I fly to Aus from the UK at least once a year and find it tolerable in Y. When I first started going regularly (family there) I flew in J and it was bliss but a few years ago I changed work circumstances and found I could no longer justify the significant extra cost to me. What I've found over these last few trips in Y is that it's not all about getting the best price but choosing the best 'package'. I always pay for an aisle seat and I'm now considering shelling out the extra for an exit row, still cheaper than J. I do dislike the pot luck element of who you might be sat next to, that can ruin the whole flight if it's bad.

A neck pillow has been my new Y friend which has helped me sleep a bit more than I used to but I don't suffer with jetlag so I'm getting away with the lack of sleep at the moment.

Having said all that, I have just returned from my latest trip flying Cathay Pacific, it was my first time in Y with them but they were my preferred J carrier and it was too much to be remembering how comfy those J beds were when I was struggling with a very wide man sat next to me, I think I will have to rule them out next time for this reason!

evergrn

Flight stress = (3*A^1.1+B^1.1)/5
where A = flight duration (hours); B = #time zones crossed

Seat comfort = 14+(9*(C-18.5)+0.7*(D-36)*(ABS(D)^1.1))*(1/6)
where C = seat with (inches); D = seat pitch (inches)

^ is actually the so-called "circum-flex accent" (exponent/power in Excel) which FT turns into an emoji.