Business travel - expensing refunded transactions
Apr 5, 2019, 7:03 am
#17
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: AA Plat, UA 1K>Plat>moving to Silver
Posts: 2,090
What about when you get 7.5K miles back for missing IFE or something similar? What if that was a 200 USD e-cert instead? That arrives a week or two after you have put in your expense report? And which you might or might not ever use? Judgment is involved, and I doubt most people go back and reduce their expenses by some amount for those.
Apr 5, 2019, 7:18 am
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
It is all up to your employer and its travel policies. Most employers have a catch-all provision dealing with miles, points, minor IRROPS gestures and the like. There a few which try to coopt those and require that they be used to defray corporate travel expenses, but as many threads here attest, it is typically ill-fated and winds up costing a lot more than it generates.
The larger issue is IDB, VDB, and EC 261/2004 where compensation & refunds can be significant.
The larger issue is IDB, VDB, and EC 261/2004 where compensation & refunds can be significant.
Apr 5, 2019, 8:41 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,153
Apr 5, 2019, 8:53 am
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DTW, but drive to/from YYZ/ORD
Programs: Chase Ultimate Rewards 2MM, Diner Club points
Posts: 31,920
Only refunds that go back on the corp card get expensed. If an expense is not able to be refunded as a card credit, then it's not a refund of business expenses and simply individual reimbursement for inconvenience, damages, delays, yadda yadda.
Apr 5, 2019, 9:30 am
#21
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Suggesting that an employer not issuing corporate cards makes it a "cheapskate" is a failure to understand that it may well be quite the contrary. Many corporate cards provide significant benefits to the employer, not only in terms of points and the like, but also in linking to the company's accounting system.
Many people would much prefer to use their personal card and be reimbursed. It helps to build credit (which may be helpful in terms of lower mortgage and other large ticket borrowing) and may also provide travel and other benefits.
The only caution is that if you work for a business in financial trouble, if it goes under while you are owed reimbursements, you may wait for a long, long time to be reimbursed and that reimbursement may be at pennies on the dollar.
Many people would much prefer to use their personal card and be reimbursed. It helps to build credit (which may be helpful in terms of lower mortgage and other large ticket borrowing) and may also provide travel and other benefits.
The only caution is that if you work for a business in financial trouble, if it goes under while you are owed reimbursements, you may wait for a long, long time to be reimbursed and that reimbursement may be at pennies on the dollar.
Apr 5, 2019, 9:31 am
#22
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hertz Prez Circle, National Exec
Posts: 1,357
Actual costs should be expensed exactly (or in the case of mileage, actual mileage). The employer would likely deduct this expense as reported by the employee on its corporate tax form, and its hidden partial reimbursement may expose the company to a tax violation.
However, if the hotel provides points as a goodwill gesture, those are usually given to the employee to keep, just as stay points are given by the hotel chain to the employee.
However, if the hotel provides points as a goodwill gesture, those are usually given to the employee to keep, just as stay points are given by the hotel chain to the employee.
Apr 5, 2019, 9:55 am
#23
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,660
I don't modify existing expense reports when I'm given let's say airline credit for a problem, but I do use it when the credit helps on a future flight to get the total cost down within company requirements. Everybody wins in this case.
Apr 5, 2019, 11:37 am
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DTW, but drive to/from YYZ/ORD
Programs: Chase Ultimate Rewards 2MM, Diner Club points
Posts: 31,920
Apr 5, 2019, 11:57 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston
Programs: UA 1K and Million Miler, *A Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hertz Five Star,
Posts: 1,301
Apr 5, 2019, 11:59 am
#26
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston
Programs: UA 1K and Million Miler, *A Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hertz Five Star,
Posts: 1,301
Many years ago I was part of a small team that made a decision about a similar example. A person travelling for work was seriously inconvenienced by the hotel. They gave feedback and the hotel determined that monetary compensation, equal to one nights accommodation, was appropriate and forwarded it to the person.
They had prepaid the stay with their corporate credit card and the compensation was sent to the person's personal card (which had been appropriately used for personal non-claimable expenses).
They immediately reported it and provided written details of what had occurred and the timeline.
It was determined that the inconvenience was a personal matter and that the compensation was due to the person for the way that the hotel had mistreated her and they were entitled to retain it.
The timely reporting and documentation ensured that there was no appearance of wrongdoing and by seeking appropriate guidance about how to handle the matter meant that all relevant matters were considered and that the outcome was made at a corporate level with no possible repercussions for the employee.
The key lessons were report it immediately, in writing and get corporate guidance as to how to proceed.
They had prepaid the stay with their corporate credit card and the compensation was sent to the person's personal card (which had been appropriately used for personal non-claimable expenses).
They immediately reported it and provided written details of what had occurred and the timeline.
It was determined that the inconvenience was a personal matter and that the compensation was due to the person for the way that the hotel had mistreated her and they were entitled to retain it.
The timely reporting and documentation ensured that there was no appearance of wrongdoing and by seeking appropriate guidance about how to handle the matter meant that all relevant matters were considered and that the outcome was made at a corporate level with no possible repercussions for the employee.
The key lessons were report it immediately, in writing and get corporate guidance as to how to proceed.
Apr 5, 2019, 12:06 pm
#27
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
I never would take a VDB for business travel because in principle, my employer owns that credit. Similarly, I would neve put business expenses on a cash back credit card.
OTOH, if the business purpose requires three hotel nights and the employee opts to stay a fourth night for personal reasons (for instance, to enjoy a weekend day at a nice location), I don't see anything wrong with the employee using the "free" night this way, providing that the hotel literally doesn't charge for the fourth night or the credit card gives the refund. If the hotel pro-rates the room rate equally over four nights, presumably the employer would reimburse for the cheaper amount associated with each night that was needed for the business purpose of the trip.
OTOH, if the business purpose requires three hotel nights and the employee opts to stay a fourth night for personal reasons (for instance, to enjoy a weekend day at a nice location), I don't see anything wrong with the employee using the "free" night this way, providing that the hotel literally doesn't charge for the fourth night or the credit card gives the refund. If the hotel pro-rates the room rate equally over four nights, presumably the employer would reimburse for the cheaper amount associated with each night that was needed for the business purpose of the trip.
Apr 5, 2019, 12:17 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
I wish my employer let me put my expenses on a personal card, rather than requiring the corporate Amex. Would much prefer to have those hotel and plane charges earning 3 UR per $ than 1 MR per $.
Apr 5, 2019, 12:18 pm
#29
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I never would take a VDB for business travel because in principle, my employer owns that credit. Similarly, I would neve put business expenses on a cash back credit card.
OTOH, if the business purpose requires three hotel nights and the employee opts to stay a fourth night for personal reasons (for instance, to enjoy a weekend day at a nice location), I don't see anything wrong with the employee using the "free" night this way, providing that the hotel literally doesn't charge for the fourth night or the credit card gives the refund. If the hotel pro-rates the room rate equally over four nights, presumably the employer would reimburse for the cheaper amount associated with each night that was needed for the business purpose of the trip.
OTOH, if the business purpose requires three hotel nights and the employee opts to stay a fourth night for personal reasons (for instance, to enjoy a weekend day at a nice location), I don't see anything wrong with the employee using the "free" night this way, providing that the hotel literally doesn't charge for the fourth night or the credit card gives the refund. If the hotel pro-rates the room rate equally over four nights, presumably the employer would reimburse for the cheaper amount associated with each night that was needed for the business purpose of the trip.
Apr 5, 2019, 12:21 pm
#30
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
I always stick to something they told me during my new hire training for my first job out of college as a consultant. Follow the Sunshine Rule. In that case, the clients were reimbursing the firm for our expenses, so the rule was "never put anything on your expense report you wouldn't be happy to explain to the client." Holds just as true (with "boss or CEO" instead of client) if your own company is paying for your expenses.
Same thing holds for any sort of compensation/points/benefits you receive from travel - if you'd feel uncomfortable being asked about some points/free night/VDB/whatever, then either don't take it, or compensate the firm for it. For VDBs, for example, if I'm scheduled on the 3PM home on Friday, and take a VDB to the 5PM, I'd have no problem with explaining that, unless the firm had paid materially more to put me on the 3PM rather than the 5PM. Taking a VDB on Monday morning that necessitates me missing or rescheduling meetings at my destination? No way.
Same thing holds for any sort of compensation/points/benefits you receive from travel - if you'd feel uncomfortable being asked about some points/free night/VDB/whatever, then either don't take it, or compensate the firm for it. For VDBs, for example, if I'm scheduled on the 3PM home on Friday, and take a VDB to the 5PM, I'd have no problem with explaining that, unless the firm had paid materially more to put me on the 3PM rather than the 5PM. Taking a VDB on Monday morning that necessitates me missing or rescheduling meetings at my destination? No way.
Last edited by cestmoi123; Apr 10, 2019 at 4:58 am