737-Max 8 safety concerns
#391
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...312_story.html
Now that the spotlight is on Boeing, it's apparent that the entire corporate culture has deteriorated to the point where safety is NOT a top priority and secrecy is the default choice when it comes to safety lapses.
There are no new ways to shift blame to the pilots for failing to save passengers from a dangerous airplane.
There are LOTS of new revelations of the myriad ways that Boeing has been (falsely) trading on its past-reputation for safety when it has instead become a sales-deadline driven company.
This part bears emphasizing because this is exactly what the Boeing executive claimed after the Lion Air crash.
It's not a priority to fix MCAS - the pilot should be able to prevent Boeing's lazy thinking from killing everyone.
Years before two Boeing 737 Max jets crashed in Indonesia and Ethiopia, U.S. regulators found a pattern of recurring safety problems with the manufacturing giant.
...
As Boeing faces intense scrutiny over back-to-back crashes of its 737 Max jet, documents and interviews show that the company had safety problems known to federal regulators for years.
In 2015, the FAA decided to try to get Boeing to meet, then go beyond, federal safety requirements by addressing broader corporate culture and governance issues, including what agency officials considered a lack of transparency.'
The week before Christmas of that year, Boeing and the FAA signed a five-year settlement agreement that was unprecedented in scope. The company paid a modest $12 million penalty, but it agreed to make significant changes in its internal safety systems and practices for “ensuring compliance” with regulations.
...
But over the first 3½ years of the agreement, Boeing failed to meet some of its obligations, according to two people who requested anonymity to discuss details of the settlement.
Boeing says it has taken major steps to comply. The FAA, meanwhile, last year chose not to invoke enforcement provisions that could have meant $12 million in additional penalties for the company. The agreement runs through Dec. 31, 2020, and there is the potential for more financial penalties if Boeing fails to meet the requirements.
...
Boeing’s inability to rid its newly built planes of what it calls “Foreign Object Debris,” such as tools left behind, was one of the problems that prompted the settlement. But an FAA official said the company is still struggling with the issue, and a top Air Force official told Congress the government temporarily halted deliveries of Boeing tankers earlier this year over “FOD” problems.
The company committed to improving the quality and timeliness of information it provides to the FAA. But in the case of the 737 Max, the FAA said, it took Boeing more than a year to notify it about a software problem that disabled a crucial warning light connected to the automated system at the center of the tragedies.
...
In 2008, the FAA gave Boeing and other companies more than two years to provide airlines with the technical information they needed to comply with a post-TWA regulation intended to make fuel tanks less flammable.
Boeing missed the deadline by more than 300 days, and the FAA took legal action in response to Boeing’s “tardiness.”
...
As Boeing faces intense scrutiny over back-to-back crashes of its 737 Max jet, documents and interviews show that the company had safety problems known to federal regulators for years.
In 2015, the FAA decided to try to get Boeing to meet, then go beyond, federal safety requirements by addressing broader corporate culture and governance issues, including what agency officials considered a lack of transparency.'
The week before Christmas of that year, Boeing and the FAA signed a five-year settlement agreement that was unprecedented in scope. The company paid a modest $12 million penalty, but it agreed to make significant changes in its internal safety systems and practices for “ensuring compliance” with regulations.
...
But over the first 3½ years of the agreement, Boeing failed to meet some of its obligations, according to two people who requested anonymity to discuss details of the settlement.
Boeing says it has taken major steps to comply. The FAA, meanwhile, last year chose not to invoke enforcement provisions that could have meant $12 million in additional penalties for the company. The agreement runs through Dec. 31, 2020, and there is the potential for more financial penalties if Boeing fails to meet the requirements.
...
Boeing’s inability to rid its newly built planes of what it calls “Foreign Object Debris,” such as tools left behind, was one of the problems that prompted the settlement. But an FAA official said the company is still struggling with the issue, and a top Air Force official told Congress the government temporarily halted deliveries of Boeing tankers earlier this year over “FOD” problems.
The company committed to improving the quality and timeliness of information it provides to the FAA. But in the case of the 737 Max, the FAA said, it took Boeing more than a year to notify it about a software problem that disabled a crucial warning light connected to the automated system at the center of the tragedies.
...
In 2008, the FAA gave Boeing and other companies more than two years to provide airlines with the technical information they needed to comply with a post-TWA regulation intended to make fuel tanks less flammable.
Boeing missed the deadline by more than 300 days, and the FAA took legal action in response to Boeing’s “tardiness.”
There are no new ways to shift blame to the pilots for failing to save passengers from a dangerous airplane.
There are LOTS of new revelations of the myriad ways that Boeing has been (falsely) trading on its past-reputation for safety when it has instead become a sales-deadline driven company.
Critics say that because of the firm’s importance to the U.S. economy, its confidence in its own technical expertise and its deep ties in Washington, Boeing has a history of shaping the rules it follows — and slow-rolling legal mandates it doesn’t consider a priority.
It's not a priority to fix MCAS - the pilot should be able to prevent Boeing's lazy thinking from killing everyone.
#392
Join Date: May 2002
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They can rename it "whatever". I will find out and avoid it.
#393
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what they should do is reflag this as a freighter as their doing with older versions that are long in the tooth then move on to a new design or have AB "private label" for them !!!
#394
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Well did anyone see what the Saudi's did ? Cancelled their order and frankly who can blame them. Let's see what BS Boeing comes up with now.
#395
Join Date: May 2009
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Posts: 5,678
The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has presented Boeing with five major requirements that need to be addressed, before the 737 MAX returns to service.
Reported by Bloomberg on the 6th of July 2019, the article notes the aircraft will not be allowed to fly again until the requirements are addressed and are tested accordingly.
The five requirements the European Aviation Safety Agency have listed so far are as follows:
Reported by Bloomberg on the 6th of July 2019, the article notes the aircraft will not be allowed to fly again until the requirements are addressed and are tested accordingly.
The five requirements the European Aviation Safety Agency have listed so far are as follows:
- Reduce the difficulty manually turning the trim wheel
- Address the unreliability of Angle of Attack sensors
- Address the training situation
- Investigate software issues with a lagging microprocessor
#396
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#397
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Software is fixable, the reality is the software was put in to compensate for some very fundamental hardware design choices that can NOT be changed, now to change software exposes other hardware issues, as this peeling of the onion occurs who knows what fundamental not other not fixable in software hardware issue is there. All things are a compromise and tradeoff and BA started with a very very old design and piecemeal added enhancements on enhancements and now with this disaster the regulators are taking a close look at everything. I suspect things that would have been acceptable before are now or will be rejected. BA and their management never could have predicted this FUBAR outcome from such a simple TTM decision as modifying the 737, will be a HBR case study for decades to come.
#398
Join Date: Apr 2014
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B737 Programme Manager Eric Lindblad has resigned/retired:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bo...-idUKKCN1U62PY
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bo...-idUKKCN1U62PY
#399
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United Airlines Holdings has stated the Boeing 737 MAX would stay off its flight schedule until at least Nov. 3.
Boeing 737 MAX to remain off United Airlines' schedule until November 3 | Reuters
Boeing 737 MAX to remain off United Airlines' schedule until November 3 | Reuters
#400
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United Airlines Holdings has stated the Boeing 737 MAX would stay off its flight schedule until at least Nov. 3.
Boeing 737 MAX to remain off United Airlines' schedule until November 3 Reuters
Boeing 737 MAX to remain off United Airlines' schedule until November 3 Reuters
Oh well happy to be flying AB metal internationally
#401
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New WSJ Max won't be flying till 2020
"Boeing 737 MAX Grounding Could Stretch Into 2020"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...20-11563112801
Drama continues to expand, sadly fixes in place likely could be good enough, but the scrutiny for the Max is going well beyond, probably going to be the most scrutinized plan to be certified ever.
Sadly for airlines this is problematic to have capacity grounded and why would any airlines order any more planes with the unknown always there?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...20-11563112801
Drama continues to expand, sadly fixes in place likely could be good enough, but the scrutiny for the Max is going well beyond, probably going to be the most scrutinized plan to be certified ever.
Sadly for airlines this is problematic to have capacity grounded and why would any airlines order any more planes with the unknown always there?
#402
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"Boeing 737 MAX Grounding Could Stretch Into 2020"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...20-11563112801
Drama continues to expand, sadly fixes in place likely could be good enough, but the scrutiny for the Max is going well beyond, probably going to be the most scrutinized plan to be certified ever.
Sadly for airlines this is problematic to have capacity grounded and why would any airlines order any more planes with the unknown always there?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...20-11563112801
Drama continues to expand, sadly fixes in place likely could be good enough, but the scrutiny for the Max is going well beyond, probably going to be the most scrutinized plan to be certified ever.
Sadly for airlines this is problematic to have capacity grounded and why would any airlines order any more planes with the unknown always there?
#403
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Clearly there are multiple issues Boeing is coping with as well as the politics involved. It's a no win for anyone. What I am surprised is that there has been little published on updates from either Boeing or the FAA all we hear are further schedule delays by the carriers, that does not bode well for the flying public. Maybe Boeing under the current management has "lost" it's edge, which I agree with
The reason there is little is because it has totally spun out of control, and BA even in their best efforts to do the right thing can no longer predict the multi country real and contrived politics now in play.
No question if BA and the MAX recover it will be very safe plane, probably one of the safest, think about it, the scrutiny and training the pilots will have had when it ever takes back to the air, may be the beginning of the slow or rapid downfall of BA.
#404
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
Well the new name suggestions appear to have been taken on board.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48995509
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48995509
#405
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That's how we'd know that Boeing remains a "sales-marketing = top priority" company versus a company that takes safety seriously.
If Boeing lobbyists roll out in force to try to undermine the drive for pilot training, I wonder how many 737 pilots would agree that they don't want/need detailed training/certification for the 737-8200.