Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > TravelBuzz
Reload this Page >

737-Max 8 safety concerns

Old Jul 20, 2019, 7:49 pm

737-Max 8 safety concerns

Old Mar 10, 2019, 5:52 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IAD/DCA, USA (MD Suburbs)
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, HH Diamond, Fairmont RIP, Hertz Plat, BA Gold
Posts: 1,622
737-Max 8 safety concerns

I think I'd be nervous this morning if I was scheduled on a Max 8 or if I was a Boeing shareholder. A second Max 8 just crashed after takeoff in Ethiopia with eerily similar flight profile from the Lion Air Max 8 that crashed in Indonesia a couple months ago. I have a feeling the Boeing engineers in charge of the Max 8 design were called into work this morning for some crisis management. Will be interesting how the FAA responds. Will we see a full grounding? I know they made Boeing update the training manual after the Lion Air crash to go over how to recover when the plane tries to recover from a stall that is not really happening. If this is the same issue, then hopefully they can solve it with the flight software otherwise we could be looking at a re-design of the aircraft which would be disastrous for Boeing (and the airlines that are dependent on the Max 8). I think American and Southwest are the largest operators of the new type. Their pilot unions will probably have something to say also.

Not sure where this post should be so posted it here in Omni.
FFMilesJunkie is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 6:39 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,144
Someone who knows more will be able to tell me-

how different exactly is a 737 max from a 738?
seems to me its just a stretch and possibly upgrade some systems as opposed to a full redesign which you would think would decrease the possibility of major issues?
nancypants is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 7:01 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MIA
Posts: 298
The 737 MAX adds a new system called Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) which is intended to prevent stalls. It was added because of the new designs handling characteristics, and may have been a factor in the Lion Air crash.
SouthernCross is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:16 am
  #4  
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in PALMYRA, PA, USA
Posts: 58,447
I was very happy to be flying on an Airbus 321 today...just sayin'....
kokonutz is online now  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:40 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of ORD
Programs: AA Plat UA Premier
Posts: 9,135
Figures. I am flying one of those on AA today.
SirFlysALot is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 10:15 am
  #6  
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Southern California
Programs: DL: 3.8 MM, Marriott: Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 24,575
Since OMNI is for topics other than miles, points and travel, we’re moving this thread to a more appropriate forum.

___________________________
Cholula
OMNI Co-Moderator
Cholula is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 2:22 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 585
My airline does operate them, as does my fiance's airline. None of the pilots there have expressed a concern, and if they felt uncomfortable flying them, they would not be shy about speaking up. I do think the MAX is safe, and as a pilot on Boeing equipment currently, have full faith in Boeing. Hope this helps a little....
nancypants likes this.
757FO is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 5:53 pm
  #8  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Rapid Rewards, AAdvantage, SkyMiles
Posts: 2,931
Boeing should of killed off the 737 series after the NG's instead of doing these Frankenstein experiments on the original 737 design. They should've used a completely new design, but that would require them to spend money. Now we have the mess that is the MAX's.

All I can say is, Airbus is breathing a sigh of relief while Boeing is sweating.
Tanic likes this.
DCP2016 is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 7:03 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 462
Some Chinese-language media outlets are claiming that the CAAC has ordered their airlines to ground 7M8s (from outlets I somewhat respect, but lots of rumors swirling around at this time so who knows if this is long term).
Agneisse is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 10:18 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CLT
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Lifetime Admirals Club member
Posts: 417
Originally Posted by DCP2016
Boeing should of killed off the 737 series after the NG's instead of doing these Frankenstein experiments on the original 737 design. They should've used a completely new design, but that would require them to spend money. Now we have the mess that is the MAX's.
Well according to your post, it seems like Boeing actually did spend money.... to conduct years of experimenting.

In reality, the MAX had many aerodynamic improvements, including split-tip winglets, airframe modifications and re-engining.

The term Frankenstein is not helpful here & does not progress the discussion forward.
joeyE is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 10:23 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,406
Originally Posted by Agneisse
Some Chinese-language media outlets are claiming that the CAAC has ordered their airlines to ground 7M8s (from outlets I somewhat respect, but lots of rumors swirling around at this time so who knows if this is long term).
Also reported here:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ch...ash-2019-03-10

Previous discussion here:

Do you feel comfortable flying the new 737-8/9 max given Boeings safety bulletin?
cesco.g is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2019, 11:07 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,301
Originally Posted by joeyE


Well according to your post, it seems like Boeing actually did spend money.... to conduct years of experimenting.

In reality, the MAX had many aerodynamic improvements, including split-tip winglets, airframe modifications and re-engining.

The term ‘Frankenstein’ is not helpful here & does not progress the discussion forward.


MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System), seemingly at the root of these two crashes, was necessary because the plane was inherently unbalanced when they put larger, more modern engines on a 50+ year old airframe design.

I think its a valid point to question whether it would have been better to just design an entirely new plane.
DanielW is offline  
Old Mar 11, 2019, 6:20 am
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London & Sonoma CA
Programs: UA 1K(until 2024), MM *G for life, BAEC Gold
Posts: 10,205
Statistically, I wouldn't be too concerned about flying on a Boeing Max-8 even if it does turn out to be an issue, as your odds are still probably better than crossing the street, or driving anywhere.

However, I would be very concerned if you have upcoming flights booked on airlines which operate these aircraft, as it seems quite likely that more civil aviation authorities will ground them, unless it becomes apparent quickly that the issue is not related to the Lion Air systems issues. Perhaps not in the USA because it's Boeing, but pretty well everywhere else.
lhrsfo is offline  
Old Mar 11, 2019, 9:27 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,133
Originally Posted by DanielW
MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System), seemingly at the root of these two crashes
Has this been reported or is it speculation? I haven't seen anything yet saying that they've found that MCAS played a role in the Ethiopian accident.
ian_btv and nancypants like this.
LarryJ is offline  
Old Mar 11, 2019, 10:53 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 959
My take on this is that I just don't know whether the plane has a design flaw or not. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, pilot, or anything but a layman.

From that point of view though, seeing two major crashes on a new aircraft within months of each other make me think something's wrong. This is particularly true when you consider how rare it is nowadays to see loss of life accidents like this.

It's enough to want me to avoid the aircraft when I book. Why would I want to fly a MAX when when there are plenty of well tested 737s, 757s, and A320s in service?

However, that largely isn't a problem for me as I usually fly AS (who doesn't have any MAX's yet) and take occasional short haul connecting flights in Europe on operators who use A319/20/21s as their short-haul equipment. But if faced with it, I'll choose the older plane until the authorites demonstrate that the plane is safe.
sullim4 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.