Jul 20, 2019, 7:49 pm
737-Max 8 safety concerns
Mar 12, 2019, 5:06 pm
#46
Join Date: May 2003
Location: BTV
Programs: DL, LH, Marriott
Posts: 159
Data, please. Where are the flight recorders going? Why the hush-hush?
@LarryJ @sddjd Do either of you know about what MAX technology implementations exist to automatically upload flight data to the airframe's associated company? If so, the 'black boxes' are likely redundant unless communication was lost. What does Ethiopian have to report? Look at avherald.com ... two independent reports from people monitoring aviation radio stated that the flight deck had reported anomalous >speed indications< before radio frequencies were changed..
Likewise, what anomalies did the aircraft log show for previous flights? It is surely backed-up and not just kept on board the actual aircraft? Who has that data?
@LarryJ @sddjd Do either of you know about what MAX technology implementations exist to automatically upload flight data to the airframe's associated company? If so, the 'black boxes' are likely redundant unless communication was lost. What does Ethiopian have to report? Look at avherald.com ... two independent reports from people monitoring aviation radio stated that the flight deck had reported anomalous >speed indications< before radio frequencies were changed..
Likewise, what anomalies did the aircraft log show for previous flights? It is surely backed-up and not just kept on board the actual aircraft? Who has that data?
Mar 12, 2019, 5:56 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
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Posts: 21,353
both the flight data and cockpit voice recorders are (or will be very shortly) in the custody of the investigating agency
Mar 12, 2019, 8:55 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 78
https://www.apnews.com/0cd5389261f34b01a7cbdb1a12421e27
"Pilots reported issues in US with Boeing jet suddenly tilting down"
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ed-safety-flaw
Game over.
"Pilots reported issues in US with Boeing jet suddenly tilting down"
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ed-safety-flaw
Game over.
Mar 12, 2019, 9:15 pm
#49
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,446
So much about pilots having no pressure to fly (till something like this happen and they finally get to speak out)
For me, flying Boeing is probably as safe as flying a JU-52..
For me, flying Boeing is probably as safe as flying a JU-52..
Mar 12, 2019, 10:35 pm
#50
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 579
Does it concern anyone else that the CEO of Boeing asked Trump not to ground the 737 Max aircraft when he called him today, according to the New York Times?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/b...unding-faa.htm
What is the likelihood that this type of advocacy is impacting the FAA's decision?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/b...unding-faa.htm
What is the likelihood that this type of advocacy is impacting the FAA's decision?
Mar 13, 2019, 4:14 am
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: No programs & No Points!!!
Posts: 14,222
My airline does operate them, as does my fiance's airline. None of the pilots there have expressed a concern, and if they felt uncomfortable flying them, they would not be shy about speaking up. I do think the MAX is safe, and as a pilot on Boeing equipment currently, have full faith in Boeing. Hope this helps a little....
Mar 13, 2019, 4:51 am
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Programs: UA 1K, MM *G for life, BAEC Gold
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Does it concern anyone else that the CEO of Boeing asked Trump not to ground the 737 Max aircraft when he called him today, according to the New York Times?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/b...unding-faa.htm
What is the likelihood that this type of advocacy is impacting the FAA's decision?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/b...unding-faa.htm
What is the likelihood that this type of advocacy is impacting the FAA's decision?
Mar 13, 2019, 6:59 am
#53
Join Date: May 2003
Location: BTV
Programs: DL, LH, Marriott
Posts: 159
https://www.apnews.com/0cd5389261f34b01a7cbdb1a12421e27
"Pilots reported issues in US with Boeing jet suddenly tilting down"
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ed-safety-flaw
Game over.
"Pilots reported issues in US with Boeing jet suddenly tilting down"
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ed-safety-flaw
Game over.
As a scientist by trade, I’m predicting that engineers knew of and reported the hardware and/or software issues and associated risk, data was presented to management, and then was just set aside for the sake of meeting project deadlines and appeasing the bean-counters. It has happened before in aerospace. It happens in all industries. It will happen again ... as long as profit as a mark of performance is valued and rewarded over intellect and thorough data review.
Mar 13, 2019, 7:27 am
#54
Join Date: May 2003
Location: BTV
Programs: DL, LH, Marriott
Posts: 159
Your first sentence is valid, has sources and is cogent ... your second sentence has none of these characteristics.
Mar 13, 2019, 8:02 am
#55
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Programs: DL Diamond, Marriott LT Plat, HH Diamond, Avis Preferred Plus, National Executive
Posts: 4,578
"I fly B737s and fly the Max8 now. I have over 15K hours in the the 737 over the last 22 years and I can tell you that I have every confidence in the world in this airplane. I am saddened by the recent events and the tragic loss of life. I can tell you that I wouldn't hesitate to put any of my family or friends on this aircraft in our fleet flown by our pilots--which I consider to be the best B737 pilots in the world. Obviously we are all interested in getting the facts and specifics as quickly as possible but we have to be patient and wait for the facts to come out. That can be a very frustrating and long wait for all of us. Unfortunately, there are many people out there that want a simple answer to this tragic accudent and the reality is that these modern day transport aircraft are very complex and technologically advanced machines."
Mar 13, 2019, 8:25 am
#56
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 916
The 737 is not the same plane as the 737 Max 8 as far as these software issues go ,
so saying you flew them for 20 plus years and not the same model does not count,
Would I fly on a 737 Max , YES ,
I hope some independent groups are involved in the study.
so saying you flew them for 20 plus years and not the same model does not count,
Would I fly on a 737 Max , YES ,
I hope some independent groups are involved in the study.
Mar 13, 2019, 8:30 am
#57
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,446
Mar 13, 2019, 9:04 am
#58
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Programs: DL Diamond, Marriott LT Plat, HH Diamond, Avis Preferred Plus, National Executive
Posts: 4,578
If you are referring to the note I posted from my pilot friend he flies the 737 Max now as an FYI. Prior to that he flew other variations of the 737 for 20+ years. It's his words and left them as he posted them but definitely a 737 Max pilot.
Mar 13, 2019, 10:08 am
#59
Join Date: May 2003
Location: BTV
Programs: DL, LH, Marriott
Posts: 159
I've got three children, a half-century of friends and several classrooms of students daily who both challenge MY opinions and attitudes and conversely would love to challenge your weak rhetoric and generalizations which you tout as learned and impartial. Can I have them contact you here so that you can debate them? Cheers!
Mar 13, 2019, 11:05 am
#60
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 132
So the AP finds a database containing two instances where pilots reported an autopilot anomaly, neither of which was related to MCAS. Add to the bonfire the Dallas News reporting of one pilot's outrage after the Lion Air crash who clearly bit on the media's characterization of a "hidden" system. Hardly the nail in the coffin. When viewed in a non biased way one could consider that both instances (neither of which were reported as formal safety issues) were remedied with the flip of a switch.
Politicians are racing to join the now politically correct movement to ground the planes without evidence from either crash while pilots who actually FLY the M8 are stating that they consider it safe and are all acutely aware of the issues/questions currently in play. If the in-service fleet of M8's was comparable to the NG's it's certain that the widespread groundings based on emotional reactions would be far more limited. Instead the relatively low number of planes affected means it's low hanging fruit for those who want to appear to stand up for safety as there's little impact to their country's carriers.
Meanwhile, the FAA continues to be FACT and DATA based, something politicians and media blissfully ignores.
Politicians are racing to join the now politically correct movement to ground the planes without evidence from either crash while pilots who actually FLY the M8 are stating that they consider it safe and are all acutely aware of the issues/questions currently in play. If the in-service fleet of M8's was comparable to the NG's it's certain that the widespread groundings based on emotional reactions would be far more limited. Instead the relatively low number of planes affected means it's low hanging fruit for those who want to appear to stand up for safety as there's little impact to their country's carriers.
Meanwhile, the FAA continues to be FACT and DATA based, something politicians and media blissfully ignores.
