dulciusexasperis

I see some attempt at sense in some of that Badenoch. Tagging ONE item per person for overhead bins and insisting all other be put under the seat or gate checked, would certainly put a crimp in some people's plans. I would not say BA is doing a good job of trying their version of that with tagging 'personal items' to be put under the seat though. Here's why. I usually check a bag and then board with one small backpack. It is my 'carry-on' bag and as such I am as entitled to put it in the overhead bin as someone who has a rollaboard suitcase as their 'carry-on' bag. That it might be small enough to fit under the seat does not mean that I am not equally as entitled to use the overhead bins as anyone else. Do you agree?

BA does as you say tag 'personal items' to be put under the seat but the problem is they make that decision based on size, not based on how many items a person is carrying on. A few months back I had the misfortune to fly with BA and had to tell the GA on 3 flights that no, my backpack was not my 'personal item' it was my 'carry-on' and I would not be putting it under the seat just so that someone who insisted on carrying on a bigger bag could use the overhead bin. The only 'rule' regarding what constitutes a 'carry-on' bag any airline has that I know of is the maximum dimensions, not the minimum dimensions. So even tagging bags either way will still allow room for conflict.

Reducing carry-on dimensions might seem dramatic but in reality I think all it would do is result in people trying to carry on more pieces. ie. 3 instead of 2 as is the current average number of pieces per passenger. There are enough people now who do that or have a maximum size carry-on for each of their children plus a 'personal item' per child, etc. How about women who are allowed a 'hand bag' the size of a small car? LOL

No matter what an airline tried, I think the underlying problem would remain the same. People want to carry on more than there is space to stow. Why doesn't matter really, what is is. So no matter what you try to change in terms of carry on rules the result will be the same, they will still try to carry on more than can be stowed UNLESS you either limit carry on to what can be stowed or insist they check everything except one small bag each that can fit under the seat.

When I think back 30 years or more, people carried on a coat, maybe a hat and a briefcase. Overhead space was never an issue. It is only when people started wanting to carry on LUGGAGE that it became a problem.

I have a dramatic suggestion for you Badenoch. What if the airlines left the maximum dimensions the same but changed the rule to 'no wheels'. Now that might have an affect when people realized they would have to actually CARRY ON what they wanted in the cabin.

If you can recall back to before Bernard Sadow put wheels on a suitcase (48 years ago now) and how people travelled, overhead bin fights did not exist. When someone got to the airport to check in, they either hired a porter or lugged their bags to check-in themselves and got rid of them as quickly as they could. The idea of walking through an airport with a 'carry-on' bag that maybe weighed 50 lbs. is not one anyone was interested in contemplating. Bernard Sadow has a lot to answer for along with Robert Plath a Northwest airline pilot who invented the 2 wheel 'rollaboard' in 1987 and started selling them to fellow air crew. The era of 'overhead bin fights' had begun.

VegasGambler

I'm fine with them making a profit. I'm not fine with them advertising one price and having a bunch of additional fees that are difficult to avoid, but my feelings are not relevant. I'm just disagreeing with the statement that removing the bins wouldn't cause it to cost you more to fly.

Do you really think that if they removed the bins, they would reduce the price to check a bag, or reduce the price of a ticket by the amount to check a bag? No, they would keep everything the same and flying would cost $30 more. The price that they advertise would be the same, but your out of pocket cost would go up.

fairhsa

I guess you don't fly long haul. yes, on longer flights people change their clothes (particularly if they are going to a different temperature zone than they left); change to sleep in; wash with their wash kits in the toilet; do work with their laptops, iPads, notebooks and files; read their books... actually access many parts of their luggage. Of course they may not access the fragile items they packed in hand-luggage because they didn't want it thrown around by baggage handlers but they still want it in the cabin. I don't see any of the above as being unreasonable.

So I don't think removing overhead bins or banning carry-ons is the answer. As someone else noted, if you are in Business Class, it's not a cost issue. For me, I travel hand-luggage only because of speed. I am often on business trips of 1 or 2 days, with meetings straight after landing and right before departure and all that extra time hanging around picking up and dropping off bags really adds up if you do it every day.

Now... if they introduced a service whereby the luggage would be available at the gate right as you walk off the plane... sure... I might let some of my luggage go.

I'd also note that the amount of luggage that can be carried, and the strictness with which it is enforced, varies hugely around the world. In most of Asia, just about everyone carries as much as they can possibly carry (and fills their check baggage allowance as well) mostly as a matter of culture. They have to bring lots of presents for friends and family they visit and visa versa on the way home. I have a friend married to a Thai lady and his description of what she packs was hilarious. Basically the entire kitchen and wardrobe.... But I digress.

Australia is an interesting example. Australian domestic luggage allowance is different from "standard". It allows two small pieces, or 1 small piece, but not big pieces. Internationally, you can take the bigger piece on board, but the weight is strictly enforced - NOT by the airline, but by the airport dragon who hides behind a curtain and grabs people just as they walk into the customs area. (There are many strategies for getting around this, but the fact is, it really does limit what you can take on board). Which means much more luggage is checked and less problems on board. Is it the right answer? Not really, it really irritates me that I have to have a competely different travel strategy for Aussie trips, but it does highlight that there are different ways of enforcing things around the world.

Frankly, a better option (if we had the technology, and I'm sure we will soon) is a "tradable bin space allowance". You get such an allowance (which is precisely your share of the available bins, so if there are 100 bins and 200 seats on the plane, your allowance is 0.5 bin, for example). Thus if everyone carried their allowance on board, the bins would be exactly full. Then, if you need more space than your allowance, you "trade" for it. This is the economically rational solution (at this point you realise I'm an economic consultant ) which solves all the problems. We just need the technology to make it work. Give it a few years!

dulciusexasperis

Actually, I am more a long haul flyer these days than short haul. And yes, I do many of the things you list that people do. I do them from my small backpack that I carry on board. There is nothing in your list that makes carrying on ALL your stuff for your entire trip necessary. So that dog won't hunt fairhsa. If there were no overhead bins, you could still do all of that from a bag that fits under the seat.

Regarding 'speed', that is the nearly universal, 'why I must carry-on' response. But the simple fact is that while you may prefer it for your business travel, it does not make it a necessity. What do you think people did before 'rollaboards' became available? They checked their bag and wonder of wonders, still managed to do business wherever they went. So while you have a 'preference' that does not make it a 'necssity.' I'm sure you don't want to suggest that if you had to check a bag, you would not be able to figure out how to manage your time accordingly. So that dog won't hunt either fairhsa.

I do see some merit in your 'bin space allocation' idea though. I would be fine with each passenger being allocated a portion of bin space but that has some practical considerations that probably make it impractical. Not all bins are created equal for a start. You would have to insure that each airplane had the same standard size bins as every other airplane. Otherwise if you were entitled to say half a bin, your 'carry-on' might fit in one but not another within your allocated space. That alone probably makes the idea impractical for airlines to do.

Then there is the question of just how much space would each passenger actually be allocated even assuming all bins were the same size. Do you really think there is 100 bins for 200 passengers as an average for example. I don't think so. One bin above a row of 3 passengers would mean an allocation of 1/3 while one bin above 2 passengers would mean an allocation of 1/2 as you suggest but again what if your 'carry-on' needed half a standard bin? OK, lets say 'carry-on' will have to be max sized to fit 1/3 of a bin. Then when you are allocated 1/2 of a standard bin because you are seated in a row of 2, there would be 1/3 of the bin left empty presumably. Hmm, I think the airlines would then have to start agreeing on a standard number of seats per bin to avoid that. No, too many factors to control, not practical fairhsa.

As for 'trading' for someone else's excess space, that's hilarious. I can see it now. I have one small backpack I throw in my half of the overhead space I'm allocated. Someone gets on with a 'carry-on' that fills their half and wants my excess space to put their second item in. I say, 'don't bother me, I'm not interested in you paying me $5 for my space. Stick your second item under the seat.' Oops, the person gets irate, tries to insist I sell, etc. etc. Next thing you know, it's a 'bin fight'.

Or how about if someone has excess space and says, 'yes, I'll sell it to you but not for $5. How badly do you want my space? I'll sell it for $25.' Umm, 'bin fight'. Stick to economic consulting fairhsa, running an airline is not your forte. LOL

I'm back to the simple solution. Want to stop bin fights, remove the bins. What do you do when two kids can't play together without one wanting the item the other has? Answer, you take away the item and tell them if they can't play nice, they won't get to play with that item any more.

vanillabean

deniah

speak softly and carry a big bag.

danielonn

I agree that overhead space unless its Basic Economy is yours first come first served. Whether in First Class or Economy Class its your storage space. For me I only travel with a backpack and store it in the overhead compartment to maximize my legroom. Especially since I like the bulkhead row you are required to put your luggage in the overhead compartments for takeoff, taxing and landing.

On a United flight I arrived at my bulkhead seat and a man had already stored his luggage above and I placed my bag one aisle down in the bin. No sweat. We lucked out that no one had the middle seat so I stored my headphone case there and the man stored a small item. Very pleasant flight!

In First Class I just put my stuff up where it needs to go and have never been questioned by a passenger. Makes me wonder if this passenger never flies in First Class or deserved to be downgraded.

First come first served also takes place on Southwest for seating arrangements. Sorry if you are not in line to board when you are called then you get the luck of the draw!

In situations like this I just get the flight attendant involved and let him or her take care of it.

atflyer

That is I think the issue in this thread. One roller bag? Fine. Goes in the bin. Small personal item, like a small backpack or a computer bag? Something I take all the time and fits without problem under my legs, without bothering me stretching my legs under the Y-seat in front of me. Not any need to use the bin. Indeed, more convenient to have it under my legs since then I can read the stuff in the small backpack or use my computer. I avoid emergency or bulkhead seats for that reason. My small personal item is always with me and not in the bin, even if it is the only item I have on me. It is all about policing the size of the personal item, imho.

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teddybear99

I wouldn't ever dare place a fragile thing that I am carrying on into a "Squishy" soft sided bag. Things could get dropped on it or slammed against it even while in an overhead compartment. It may still get damaged if impacted heavily, but you have a better chance of it being protected in a hard case, that is why most people have a sturdy type carry on as well as luggage.

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