fairhsa

OK - so a different scenario along the same theme. This time a long haul flight on an Asian airline, but also in the front cabin. Pax A (lady) has one trolley. Pax B (large bloke) has three items - one trolley and two smaller (but large) bags. Both Pax A and Pax B are in the front row, with Pax A having no bin directly overhead due to the configuration of the cabin. Pax B put his first item (trolley) in the bin directly overhead his seat and then moves off to get his other items (it appears he is moving seats) when Pax A arrives and looks around. Seeing no bin overhead and the one behind full, Pax A moves to put their single trolley in the bin above the seat behind B on the direction of cabin staff (which turns out is the seat B's partner is sat in, with their trolley already in the overhead). Pax B moves fast and intercepts and stuffs his two smaller items into the bin as fast as possible, filling it, leaving pax A with nowhere to put a bag. Pax A asks Pax B to move their smaller items and B refuses rudely, so Pax A appears to lose their temper, removes his trolley and replaces it with theirs and sits down. PaxB and PaxB's partner then spend the next hour arguing at top volume to anyone who will listen that Pax A is an evil danger to the flight and should be removed, including statements like "did you see what she did... DID YOU SEE! DID YOU SEE!"; "if Pax A were a bloke I would hit them"; "I will be too scared to sleep with such an evil person on the flight, what if they attack me in the middle of the night with the knives" and "those bins are above my seat and [partner] seat so they are my bins and I can do what I like with them". Pax A sits quietly. Cabin crew [redacted] have no idea what to do. Most of the rest of the cabin keep their heads down. This commotion goes on for an hour or so with the flight unable to take off while B/B partner are making such a fuss. A is asked to offload and apparently refuses. Eventually some compromise is reached, everyone moves seats and the flight takes off.

As witnessed.

Comments? Who is most wrong?

VegasGambler

Just kick them both off the flight and take off on time.

yyznomad

VegasGambler

I'm not joking. Delaying a plane full of passengers (and causing who-knows-how-many delays down the line) because two people can't behave like adults is ridiculous. The debate should not be about whether they get kicked off that flight, it should be about whether or not they get arrested after they get kicked off.

If there are not consequences to their actions, they have no disincentive from continuing to act that way.

ETA: Just so I don't come off as too harsh, I'm firmly on the "shouldn't be arrested" side of the debate.

Often1

I fairly routinely see FA's for all three legacy US carriers first ask and then tell passengers to move an item out of the OH and into the under seat area. When there is serious back talk, I've seen the bag tentatively carted off for gate check. It's never gotten that far.

Lot of huffing and puffing on FT, but the fact is that it's DL's space not yours and you don't have a "right" to any one cubic inch of it.

The mistake in this thread is that this is an interaction between a crew member and a passenger. Never would I react to a passenger directly doing this to me.

fairhsa

So nobody here sees any difference between a momentary response to provocation (and then refusing to engage in any further argument, moving seats when requested, apologising when requested) and another side who persists in trying to get the other person kicked off for an hour? Interesting. That's what I wanted to see.

I'm Pax A; this happened last night on Philippine Airlines. I thought I would see the response before giving you the further information that the partner of Pax B said to me (hissed in my ear as I was trying my best to ignore her) "I'm going to report you and get you kicked off this flight". And nearly succeeded. I'm not proud of losing my temper (briefly) but have never seen anything like the response of these other people who were blatantly and vindictively trying to "get their revenge" by threats, lies and manipulation.

Badenoch

My approach to this is quite straightforward. If I have two bags one is my carry-on and the other is my personal item. The carry-on goes into the overheard. The personal item goes under the seat. If I have one bag it becomes my carry-on and goes into the overhead regardless of its size. FAs who have told me to put my lone carry-on under my seat are informed that it's my only bag and they relent. Passengers who attempt to remove my bag with permission are told in fairly blunt terms to put it back where it was.

VegasGambler

I see a difference between A and B, and the other passengers who were delayed through no fault of their own.

A should have been kicked off the second she removed someone else's bag from the bin.
B should have been asked by the FA to remove his excess bags (everything in excess of 1). If he refused the FA should have removed them and tagged them to be checked; if B interfered he should have been kicked off (and probably arrested, if his interference was physical)

A is not the victim, and B is not the victim. They are the perpetrators. The victims are the plane full of people who were delayed.

simons1

If you touched my bags I would do the same.

It isn't your space and it isn't your job to interfere with another passenger's bags.

If there is an issue then speak to the CC and ask them to help.

dulciusexasperis

Yet another reason why I would so prefer it if airlines removed all overhead bins. I wonder how many arguments, delays, etc. that would remove at the same time?

Asking people to behave in a civil manner towards each other is asking people to stop being human. It is human nature to compete, argue, fight, etc. when there are limited resources and more than one person wants those resources. That's how wars get started, why would an airplane cabin and two people who both want a limited resource be any different?

It is possible to get people to get along with each other if they perceive themselves as not 'losing'. An obvious 'win/win' solution is not a problem. However, when it is going to be an obvious 'win/lose' result, you get war. There should be no surprise in that. Overhead bins are a 'win/lose' issue, expect conflict.

strickerj

rickg523

It wouldn't go over well, but it would go over. Name one price differentiation and monetization scheme that hasn't. I can't think of any at all.

VegasGambler

I don't agree with this. Don't let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone else.

The solution is not to remove the bins, but to remove the people who are acting this way. I would love to see an airline in this situation (when someone's bad behavior causes a delay) kick the people off the plane and ban them from flying with them again. It's not like it would cost them a ton of business; it's probably less than 1% of flyers who would do something like this. Who knows how much real money that delay cost them?

Removing the bins punishes the wrong people.

dulciusexasperis

No, I'm not trying to punish anyone VegasGambler I am trying to treat everyone the same and provide no reason for conflicts to occur. I'm offering a solution that would work, no more arguments when there is nothing to argue about.

You suggest removing the people and while I can understand how you think that would solve the problem just as well, the reality is it is not practical. Take the example in this thread. Two people get on the plane and there is not enough overhead space to satisfy them both. An argument ensues and you kick one off. Which one, who decides, how long did it actually take for all this to happen? You haven't removed the problem, there was still a delay, other people had to sit and go through this going on etc. Then what if the person you kicked off decides to sue? Oops, now the airline's lawyers are laying down a strict policy of exactly what is to be done, in what order and what specific words the CC are allowed to use and not use, etc.

There is a simple solution, no overhead bins. Nothing to argue about. What you are saying is YOU want to use an overhead bin and YOUR personal preference should be provided for. OK, I get that, but then you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want overhead bins, then you must accept what comes with them, conflict. My solution removes conflict, your solution does not.

dulciusexasperis

Strickerj, do you really think you don't pay for your carry-on bag? In simple terms, an airline sells you a fuel allowance. That is, they calculate the average weight of a passenger and baggage and then divide the total fuel cost to fly from A to B and divide by the number of passengers at that average weight. That gives them a price per seat. Whether you check a bag or not is irrelevant, you pay the price per seat. What ticket pricing model a given airline uses to come up with that amount is irrelevant. I can pay $100 for a seat plus $10 for a checked bag OR a carry-on bag. Or I can pay $110 for a seat with a carry-on OR checked bag included. Or I can pay $110 for a seat with a carry-on bag for free but a fee for a checked bag. Whatever way you want to do it, I pay for my allocation of fuel (I'm ignoring other expenses like maintenance etc. obviously for simplicity) and it is $110.

The reason why an airline chooses to add $10 for a checked bag is simple. People look for the lowest price. So if one airline shows $100 from A to B and another airline shows $110 from A to B, the people opt to book with the firs airline. Then they discover to check a bag will cost $10 on that airline and so try to travel carry-on only to save $10 and tell us, 'oh no, it isn't the $10, I am too busy and important to wait at a luggage carousel and besides I don't want them to lose my bag.' Yeah right.

Ask yourself why this issue with overhead bins exists? How did it come about? It did not exist 30 years ago you know. So what has changed and why?