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What would you do in an emergency evacuation?

What would you do in an emergency evacuation?

Old Jan 8, 18, 10:48 am
  #76  
 
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I just don't understand why there is any debate about this. It's one thing if people in an emergency situation are slow to react or revert to "normalcy" as described above. But making a *conscious decision* to hold up an evacuation to collect a carry-on based on one's own subjective assessment of the risk (which may or may not be accurate given the limited information available to passengers) is one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard.
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Old Jan 8, 18, 11:03 am
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by LTBoston View Post
I just don't understand why there is any debate about this. It's one thing if people in an emergency situation are slow to react or revert to "normalcy" as described above. But making a *conscious decision* to hold up an evacuation to collect a carry-on based on one's own subjective assessment of the risk (which may or may not be accurate given the limited information available to passengers) is one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard.
This.
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Old Jan 8, 18, 12:14 pm
  #78  
 
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Originally Posted by kb9522 View Post


Right, you're not responsible for your own safety... that's someone else's job!
That's a complete non-sequitur from my post. You are talking about people taking luggage down the slide when they should not be. They people taking the luggage are causing the problem; they are in the wrong. It simply isn't other people's responsibility to avoid luggage taken somewhere that it has no right to be, causing potentially life-threatening obstructions.

It's quite simple: if it's an emergency, you GTFO the plane. You don't stop to grab your luggage because you're so self-obsessed and entitled that your 'gizmos' are worth more than other people's lives.

Originally Posted by LTBoston View Post
I just don't understand why there is any debate about this. It's one thing if people in an emergency situation are slow to react or revert to "normalcy" as described above. But making a *conscious decision* to hold up an evacuation to collect a carry-on based on one's own subjective assessment of the risk (which may or may not be accurate given the limited information available to passengers) is one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard.
Self-obsession and entitlement. See the post quoted at the top of this post.
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Old Jan 8, 18, 4:18 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson View Post
That's a complete non-sequitur from my post. You are talking about people taking luggage down the slide when they should not be. They people taking the luggage are causing the problem; they are in the wrong. It simply isn't other people's responsibility to avoid luggage taken somewhere that it has no right to be, causing potentially life-threatening obstructions.

It's quite simple: if it's an emergency, you GTFO the plane. You don't stop to grab your luggage because you're so self-obsessed and entitled that your 'gizmos' are worth more than other people's lives.



Self-obsession and entitlement. See the post quoted at the top of this post.
How many people died on the Asiana flight referenced above due to passengers removing their luggage? Enough of the hyperbole.

And not a single person that I've read has advocated for indiscriminately pausing to remove luggage. It's about understanding the situation and reacting appropriately.
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Old Jan 8, 18, 7:17 pm
  #80  
 
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Yes, people grabbing their carry-ons can create unnecessary delays that could end up killing someone. So could John Mclane-wannabes starting a fistfight in the aisles in order to hurry those people along.
In case of an evacuation, I will get out as expeditiously as I can -- if the situation warrants a few seconds to grab my jacket and meds then I will. Let's face it, if you're back of the plane in a window seat, you probably have plenty of time to reach under the seat and grab something. If you're aisle seat and/or near the emergency exit, you need to get out and clear space for everyone else behind you ASAP.
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Old Jan 8, 18, 11:41 pm
  #81  
 
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Okay, legit question here.

I have heard the safety speech on the airplane, but I have never practiced the maneuvers which some of you obviously have rehearsed. The only thing I've ever done is verify which emergency exit (in front or behind) is closer to my seat.

In the event of an emergency evacuation on a plane, other than standing up and hoping that nobody runs you down en route to the exit, what else are you supposed to do? I'd never bother with my overhead carryon bags. All I care about is my other half and me. So what should we do?
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Old Jan 9, 18, 12:50 am
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Originally Posted by kb9522 View Post


How many people died on the Asiana flight referenced above due to passengers removing their luggage? Enough of the hyperbole.

And not a single person that I've read has advocated for indiscriminately pausing to remove luggage. It's about understanding the situation and reacting appropriately.








So if nobody died in one case, then it's OK?

No it's not. That's just stupid. Fires are unpredictable and can spread very quickly in planes. It's an obvious disaster waiting to happen.

It's not rocket science. If it's an emergency evacuation, get off the plane. Don't take your luggage or delay in any sort of way; get off the plane by the fastest means possible.

What we're seeing here is people who are so self-obsessed and entitled that they think that retrieving their gizmos is more important than other people's lives. We know this exists in the real world, but it's still shocking to see that people advocate taking their luggage in an emergency. Which, yes, they are.

You try to dodge by saying that it wouldn't be 'indiscriminate', as in your original post on the topic:

Originally Posted by kb9522 View Post
Re: the OP... I would also consider grabbing my carry on depending on the situation. The only people who need to be "beaten senseless" are the emotional train wrecks who can't deal with a little stress.
You say 'depending on the situation'. But as has been pointed out, you don't have the information to know exactly what the situation is. Your typical response is to just go on using the rolleyes smilie as if it's some kind of logical argument for your case.

What we see in your OP and what we've seen since then is an incredible arrogance that you know better than other people, that you'll magically know what the situation is and therefore will be able to make life and death decisions for other people. No, you don't. And no number of rolleyes smilies prove that you do.

Look, I can only judge you by what you post here. And if you post arguments like 'Nobody died on the Asiana flight', then that argument is simply stupid. Based on that, there's no evidence that you have the mental capacity to make decisions like whether to stop for luggage or not, even in a calm situation of a hypothetical discussion. Even less so in a real emergency. On top of that, you simply attempt to discount 'stress' as if stress isn't a natural reaction in an airplane emergency. You don't know what you are talking about, even now. You're the very last person who should be making decisions about what to do in an emergency situation. You need to follow instructions and get off the plane with no delay.

Originally Posted by http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36977903
"Jump! Jump! Jump! Leave your bags behind. Jump and slide. Jump and slide!"

You can hear the anxiety in the flight attendant's voice as she tries to herd passengers off the Emirates Airline Boeing 777-300 that crash-landed at Dubai International Airport on Wednesday.

She realises that they are still in mortal danger, yet many of the people on board are wasting time grabbing bags from the overhead lockers.
And from 'Aviation Expert' Ashley Nunes, from the same article.

"Studies show that the likelihood of a cabin being consumed by fire increases significantly after 90 seconds," aviation expert Ashley Nunes told me.

"But those evacuation tests don't account for people trying to take their luggage with them."

One minute, 23 seconds into the longer video of the evacuation, a passenger pans the camera over to film the engine fire. In your head you're screaming at them to get away! Part of the aircraft did actually explode not long afterwards.

The efficiency with which the crew cleared the cabin undoubtedly saved lives.

"We are beginning to see a pattern - when there are crashes, people take their luggage," Ashley Nunes says.

In September last year a British Airways plane caught fire on the runway in Las Vegas. You can see in the report from the time that in the rush to get off, some passengers have still taken their bags with them.

In July 2013 an Asiana plane crash-landed in San Francisco. Again, the photos show that passengers have grabbed their bags during the evacuation.

"The key to keeping people safe is speed - getting your bag slows things down," Mr Nunes says.

Last edited by OccasionalFlyerPerson; Jan 9, 18 at 1:27 am
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Old Jan 9, 18, 1:07 am
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by sunspa View Post
DON'T PANIC
  1. At all times during an emergency follow the instructions of the Building and Area Wardens.
  2. On hearing the evacuation alarm, immediately prepare to leave the building secure confidential materials and valuables, collect personal belongings, shut down experiments, switch off computers, electrical appliances, equipment and machinery.
  3. If the evacuation alarm sounds, or if instructed to do so by a Warden, leave the building by the nearest and safest exit route. All doors should be closed (but not locked) on leaving.
  4. If possible take hand held personal belongings (such as handbags and briefcases) with you when you leave. Do not return to collect belongings.
  5. Assist any person with a disability to leave the building, or to the nearest fire isolated or firesafe haven for multi-storey buildings. Do not attempt to carry people down stairs. See the People with Specific Needs section.
  6. Walk quickly and calmly to the designated assembly area for your building or as advised by a Warden or Fire and Emergency Services personnel.
This is for evacuating a building, not a plane. The physical situation is quite different.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 2:43 am
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson View Post
So if nobody died in one case, then it's OK?

No it's not. That's just stupid. Fires are unpredictable and can spread very quickly in planes. It's an obvious disaster waiting to happen.

It's not rocket science. If it's an emergency evacuation, get off the plane. Don't take your luggage or delay in any sort of way; get off the plane by the fastest means possible.

What we're seeing here is people who are so self-obsessed and entitled that they think that retrieving their gizmos is more important than other people's lives. We know this exists in the real world, but it's still shocking to see that people advocate taking their luggage in an emergency. Which, yes, they are.

You try to dodge by saying that it wouldn't be 'indiscriminate', as in your original post on the topic:



You say 'depending on the situation'. But as has been pointed out, you don't have the information to know exactly what the situation is. Your typical response is to just go on using the rolleyes smilie as if it's some kind of logical argument for your case.

What we see in your OP and what we've seen since then is an incredible arrogance that you know better than other people, that you'll magically know what the situation is and therefore will be able to make life and death decisions for other people. No, you don't. And no number of rolleyes smilies prove that you do.

Look, I can only judge you by what you post here. And if you post arguments like 'Nobody died on the Asiana flight', then that argument is simply stupid. Based on that, there's no evidence that you have the mental capacity to make decisions like whether to stop for luggage or not, even in a calm situation of a hypothetical discussion. Even less so in a real emergency. On top of that, you simply attempt to discount 'stress' as if stress isn't a natural reaction in an airplane emergency. You don't know what you are talking about, even now. You're the very last person who should be making decisions about what to do in an emergency situation. You need to follow instructions and get off the plane with no delay.



And from 'Aviation Expert' Ashley Nunes, from the same article.
And to add, it's not always the fire to be concerned about. Smoke is often the killer, not fire. I can't remember where or when, but there was flight where the pilots reported smoke in the cabin. The plane was only a few minutes from the airport and immediately turned around and landed. By the time emergency crews cracked open the doors, all on board were dead. If there's a chance to escape, it will be the smoke to check out for, not necessarily the fire.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 2:51 am
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson View Post
So if nobody died in one case, then it's OK?

No it's not. That's just stupid. Fires are unpredictable and can spread very quickly in planes. It's an obvious disaster waiting to happen.

It's not rocket science. If it's an emergency evacuation, get off the plane. Don't take your luggage or delay in any sort of way; get off the plane by the fastest means possible.

What we're seeing here is people who are so self-obsessed and entitled that they think that retrieving their gizmos is more important than other people's lives. We know this exists in the real world, but it's still shocking to see that people advocate taking their luggage in an emergency. Which, yes, they are.

You try to dodge by saying that it wouldn't be 'indiscriminate', as in your original post on the topic:



You say 'depending on the situation'. But as has been pointed out, you don't have the information to know exactly what the situation is. Your typical response is to just go on using the rolleyes smilie as if it's some kind of logical argument for your case.

What we see in your OP and what we've seen since then is an incredible arrogance that you know better than other people, that you'll magically know what the situation is and therefore will be able to make life and death decisions for other people. No, you don't. And no number of rolleyes smilies prove that you do.

Look, I can only judge you by what you post here. And if you post arguments like 'Nobody died on the Asiana flight', then that argument is simply stupid. Based on that, there's no evidence that you have the mental capacity to make decisions like whether to stop for luggage or not, even in a calm situation of a hypothetical discussion. Even less so in a real emergency. On top of that, you simply attempt to discount 'stress' as if stress isn't a natural reaction in an airplane emergency. You don't know what you are talking about, even now. You're the very last person who should be making decisions about what to do in an emergency situation. You need to follow instructions and get off the plane with no delay.



And from 'Aviation Expert' Ashley Nunes, from the same article.
1. You are conflating two separate issues. One being pilots and FAs not providing enough information. The other being people considering taking their carry-on.

2. I used the flight above to illustrate an extreme case where there still were no casualties resulting from the removal of carry ons. But fine... the NTSB estimates there is an evacuation every 11 days. How many deaths have you heard of over the past decade resulting from people removing their carry ons? I know I haven't heard of any. So again, enough of the hyperbole and fear mongering.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 3:45 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by DragonSoul View Post
I can't remember where or when, but there was flight where the pilots reported smoke in the cabin. The plane was only a few minutes from the airport and immediately turned around and landed. By the time emergency crews cracked open the doors, all on board were dead.
Saudia Flight 163

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudia_Flight_163
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Old Jan 9, 18, 6:29 am
  #87  
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Originally Posted by ExplorerWannabe View Post
Yes, people grabbing their carry-ons can create unnecessary delays that could end up killing someone. So could John Mclane-wannabes starting a fistfight in the aisles in order to hurry those people along.
In case of an evacuation, I will get out as expeditiously as I can -- if the situation warrants a few seconds to grab my jacket and meds then I will. Let's face it, if you're back of the plane in a window seat, you probably have plenty of time to reach under the seat and grab something. If you're aisle seat and/or near the emergency exit, you need to get out and clear space for everyone else behind you ASAP.
If you are in the last row you might be very very close to the rear exit (if there is one).
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Old Jan 9, 18, 7:15 am
  #88  
 
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Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson View Post
What we see in your OP and what we've seen since then is an incredible arrogance that you know better than other people, that you'll magically know what the situation is and therefore will be able to make life and death decisions for other people. No, you don't.
People who stubbornly think they know better in critical situations increase the risk of getting themselves killed. Our objective isn't to change their opinion but to ensure their behavior does not get us killed along with them.

Even though the people running the aircraft have ordered an emergency evacuation and the only appropriate reaction is to get out as fast as possible we are now aware there may be someone on board who in his infinite wisdom concludes the situation isn't all that serious and there's no reason to hurry. The risk is he may delay the rest of us while he gathers his belongings from the overhead. Being aware of the possibility means we must prepared to take whatever action is necessary to ensure our exit is not impeded by his behavior.

If he is right he can have the last laugh while we are standing on the tarmac watching our bags burn with the aircraft. If he is wrong and dies asphyxiating on smoke and toxic fumes clinging to his carry-on the last laugh belongs to us and we can nominate him for a Darwin Award.
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Old Jan 9, 18, 9:26 am
  #89  
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Originally Posted by KDS777 View Post
I never travel with anything in my carry on that is not expendable in this scenario.

Gotta love cargo pants.

Having said that, in a serious incident like a real crash, not a minor taxiway shunt like this, I'm not past pushing a kettle or three out of the way when they act stupid.

Pprune has a good read about it. There was no fire on the Westjet aircraft, and that it was the APU in the tail of the empty Sunwing plane burning. Yet, it's like the MSM fake news industry on both sides of the border, have made it out to be major incident.

It's clearly obvious from the video on the Pprune site, and even the pax filming it says............"it's not our plane on fire".

The Westjet crew clearly panicked, broke their own rules (remember safety briefings about not opening the emergency exit if you see fire ???) and dumped the entire pax load onto the tarmac in winter, where it could have been worse if the Sunwing plane had more serious issues.

I realize hindsight is 20/20, but all the crew had to do, and should have done, was maintain control of their situational awareness, ensure that they were was a clear way away from the Sunwing aircraft, and move a bit then wait for emergency services.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/...n-airport.html
Yes hindsight may be 20/20 but hindsight is not relevant. The issue is not what the crew should have done. The issue is what passengers did when told to EVACUATE. There are NO CIRCUMSTANCES under which anyone should be carrying anything off the plane when an order to EVACUATE is given by the pilot. It is this idea that someone can second guess a situation and make their own decision as to the seriousness and how much time they have, that is the problem.

Again, I say that anyone getting off with stuff during an evacuation should be charged with a crime such as 'criminal negligence'. Seeing a few people charged and imprisoned will soon have people realizing that their carry-on luggage stays in the overhead bin or they can expect a stay in prison. It's not all that long ago that people thought it was OK to drink and drive. Only starting to impose fines, license suspensions, vehicle inpoundments and prison time got the public to change their perception. Today we have the same issue playing out yet again with distracted driving. Equally, this issue of stopping to get stuff out of an overhead bin is yet another case of the same kind of inappropriate behaviour that some individuals will continue to do to the detriment of others until it becomes socially unacceptable to do so as well as harshly enough punished.

Take another look a this thread. The discussion is all about about should someone carry things off or not. It should ONLY be about what should happen to those who do carry things off. It's the same as discussing should someone drink and drive. Really? That's what we need to discuss? We don't all know the answer to that already?

The question of whether someone should carry anything off is NOT open to discussion at all. As with ships at sea, the airplane Captain's word is LAW. That means if he ORDERS an evacuation, you are required by law to obey that order and equally if he orders you to deplane without your stuff, you are legally required to obey that order. Doing otherwise and possibly (only possibly is required by law by the way) endangering the lives of others puts you in the position of committing a criminal offense. There's no ambiguity about that because someone thinks they can second guess how much of an emergency actually exists.

Media attention and public outrage should be focused on WHY these people are not being charged with an offense and punished if found guilty.
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Last edited by dulciusexasperis; Jan 9, 18 at 9:32 am
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Old Jan 9, 18, 11:08 am
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by DragonSoul View Post
And to add, it's not always the fire to be concerned about. Smoke is often the killer, not fire. I can't remember where or when, but there was flight where the pilots reported smoke in the cabin. The plane was only a few minutes from the airport and immediately turned around and landed. By the time emergency crews cracked open the doors, all on board were dead. If there's a chance to escape, it will be the smoke to check out for, not necessarily the fire.
This is soooo important. It goes for house fires as well. Rarely is anyone killed by flames, most all of the time they are long dead by the time the heat and flames get to them. Now car fires, thats a different animal.
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