Henla

This was how I was going to respond. Many people (probably most) book online, check in online, and then all jam on with the Zone 1 cattle call. I didn't fault the gate agents at the time (or now), as I'm not sure how they could have known without the passenger practively informing them of the issue.

Henla

We went forward for a change. My wife and I were moved one row apart, but someone kindly offered to switch without me asking, so it actually worked out fine.

IMO, always ask firmly but politely (escalating the 'firmly' and decreasing the 'politely' with each subsequent request) for resolution. So many complaints of this nature seem to follow the pattern of, "I didn't want to embarrass the POS so I remained silent hoping the FA would figure out on her/his own, then I silently seethed and wrote an angry letter to the carrier when we got back home."

Henla

I just don't get why airlines other than Southwest act like people who cannot fit in airplane seats are some sort of extreme rarity. It seems they treat each instance as some sort of ad hoc situation when there should be a set procedure. Possible solutions:

• POS must book two seats, either with the second seat free (the Southwest model) or by purchasing both.
• Airline blocks off a couple of middle seats, reserving those window and aisle seats for POS, disabled passengers, etc. The airline could charge extra (not for disabled travelers, of course), or could choose not to.
• POS must present himself/herself to the gate agent or identify himself/herself as a POS at time of booking. Gate agent will try to seat POS next to an empty seat if possible. If not, POS will be bumped to a later flight. POS has option to purchase two seats to ensure travel on preferred flight.

All of these seem like they could be reasonable, and at least they are clear and consistent policies. Things that are not acceptable solutions:

• POS allowed to take a single seat next to someone else, wedging in, armrest up, while the airline's representatives refuse to do anything.
• POS allowed to take a single seat next to someone else, wedging in, armrest up, while the airline's representatives threaten to make the non-POS take a later flight if they don't like it.
• POS allowed to sit in the exit row.
• FA moves the POS next to a petite woman, figuring the POP (passenger of petite) doesn't "need" her whole seat.

Now, to be clear, I'm not talking about someone a little big whose shoulders or arms slightly infringe. That's a nuisance, but it's just part of flying coach, at least IMO (though I do expect the PAX to try to remedy it once I bring it to his/her attention). I'm talking about the arm rest not going down, use of seatbelt extenders, an arm draped on top of my shoulder, etc.

Kagehitokiri

some airlines allow booking extra seat(s) and have sets of 1/2/3 seats

and Y can get fairly cheap especially on LCCs

JakiChan

My point. I refused to fly coach United domestic because they have the narrowest seats. I have my last upcoming Virgin America flight (le sad) and I will miss those 19" seats. My partner wanted to do a transcon to see his daughter in NYC, insisted on flying UA (cuz miles and he has the card and likes being abused I guess) but he knew better than to try and book me into coach, and that's WITH me sitting next to him.

My last domestic flight with UA in coach was Houston to SFO and given that we had just come off a Turkish flight from IRT in Business/First it was such a rude awakening...

Annalisa12

I have to admit in my Y days to being in my seat with my husband, in a row of 3 awaiting my seat mate and each time I'd see a thin person I'd silently say "please, please please (let them sit near me)". Does that make me a bad person?

Badenoch

It doesn't make you a bad person in the slightest.

Perhaps a bad person would be looking at the gate for another flight, noticing a POS and thinking to yourself "well someone is going to have a bad day today" and being very glad you aren't taking that flight. Guilty as charged.

Henla

I don't think so either. It's not like you'd be judgmental in doing so. Rather, experience shows there is a fairly reasonable chance that the POS in question has only one seat and did nothing with the GA to try to mitigate any issues.

Rebelyell

I'm a firm believer in making people pay for the seating they need, but the airlines don't make it easy. I'm 5' 10" and just under 200 pounds, so a little fat but not huge. I wanted to buy an extra seat between my son and me on a British Airways 787 (miserably narrow seats), and to do so you have to be transferred to a special desk. The guy on the phone acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. I just said "never mind."

I ended up selecting a seat on the back row, because there were only two seats together instead of three. Next to the "window" seat is about 14 inches of empty space. They could easily make these seats 25-inches wide and sell them at a premium, but instead they just put in two standard seats and left a huge block of empty space. If there was ever a plane to create conflict with obese flyers, it is the 787.

I'd love to see a tax on airline seats of less than 19 inches, say $10 per one-tenth inch. If an airline wants to fly a 787 with 17-inch seats, they can pay a $200 tax on each ticket to compensate the pubic and government for the problems these narrow seats cause.

chgoeditor

Um....you understand that one way or another, airlines pass these costs onto customers, don't you?

WillCAD

Since I only fly Southwest, I'm accustomed to their model for COS (Customers of Size, their term, which I prefer to POS since that one has another highly insulting meaning in the US). As a COS myself, I have always acknowledged my responsibility to those around me.

I'm 6'-3" tall and my weight has fluctuated over the years between 250lb and 290lb. My shoulders have always been very wide - I measured them at 25" - so I've always had trouble keeping my shoulder out of someone else's face. I usually spent entire flights leaning uncomfortably, even painfully, against the wall.

A few years ago, with my weight climbing and my butt getting wider and wider, I started booking two seats, and suddenly flying became comfortable again. No more leaning against the wall, no more pain and discomfort, and no worries that I might ruin someone else's flight.

I really can't understand why the entire industry doesn't adopt Southwest's model in its entirety. Even if they still charge for the second seat (unless the flight is not sold out), instead of refunding the fare all the time as Southwest does, every other carrier could learn a lot from Southwest's process, which is simple, easy, quick, and does not cause any undue embarrassment to the COS.

Nor can I understand the whole, "Small people don't need their whole seat, so put big people next to them and share" mentality. Small people pay for their whole seat, just like big people do. I'm not entitled to any part of another person's seat, nor are they entitled to any part of mine.

It's simple: if you don't fit in one seat, buy two. Any excuse for not doing that (i.e. can't afford it, it's embarrassing, it's not so bad I only overflow a little) is invalid. If you don't fit in one, buy two. There is no other course of action.

I don't fit in one seat, so I buy two. End of story.

ATOBTTR

Many airlines have seats like this already. They're called "Premium Economy," "Business Class," and "First Class". Not sure what more you want (especially when you consider that these special seats you want would have to be tested and certified - this cost isn't cheap for the handful seats any given airline would be installing in this area you're referencing).

1) As noted above, this would simply be passed on to the consumer (revenue passengers) in the final ticket price.
2) Airline passengers are as much to blame as the airlines themselves. Many passengers choose one airline over the another strictly over price, sometimes over mere dollars. Airline A was $3 cheaper. Never mind that it offers a 29" pitch versus 31" and involves 2 connections with 4 hour layovers. A tried "More Room Throughout Coach" in the early 2000s. It failed and AA went back to offering industry standard seat pitch. Now the airlines are offering a mix of regular economy seats, Y+ (Economy Plus, Delta Comfort, AA's MCE), and premium cabin seats.

Henla

Yes. A passenger who requires two seats needs to wind up with two seats, rather than trying to take part of a stranger's. And, as it's clear domestic airlines have no plans to enforce their current written COS policies, it would make sense for them to follow the Southwest model.

Right now, Southwest is likely handling a larger share of COS traffic due to their seating policy, and Southwest is doing just fine in terms of profitability. If one airline can take on much of this entire load, surely more airlines can take a share -- especially as they seemingly have no other policy (beyond hoping for passengers who won't speak up if their seats are encroached upon).

If the COS doesn't mention the size issue until taking his/her seat, what does he/she expect to happen? It seems it would be a lot less embarrassing to address the situation proactively and responsibly.

Henla

And, of course, some passengers think it should be just fine to take all the space they want: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpGw4Lxw0W8

I think this complicates things a bit, causing airlines not to take action. IMO, if the airlines aren't willing to enforce requirements to pay for two seats, they need to come up with something besides leaving it to the passengers.

Rebelyell

I don't know that it would be that difficult to have slightly wider seats where possible, maintaining everything else about the seat design. Premium seats offer luxury in addition to wider seats; fat people just need a wider seat.


The 777 flew for years with 9-across seating, and the cost that was passed on to the consumer was not so high that people were unable to fly. The 747 also flew with 9-across. The 787 was designed to fly with 8-across seating until the airlines decided they could wedge another seat in if they were willing to make it an really uncomfortable ride. Setting a 19-inch width and 31-inch pitch benchmark, with nonconforming products to be taxed, is not going to raise fares by much, but it will certainly increase comfort by a lot and reduce air violence as well.