CitizenWorld

Interesting view, I'm still very early in my career but I've found my experiences at medical school only affirmed my belief in personal responsibility.

It's not really a case of "assisting" a person here though. By asking the person in front not to recline when he's probably been reclined into, you're essentially asking him to squash himself for your benefit. That's pretty selfish imo. Like I've said either here or in other threads on FT, you know what you're buying into when you fly coach so you're implicitly accepting the conditions in buying the ticket. Is that not the same as accepting a certain amount of discomfort in consenting for medical procedure? Sure, private hospitals are going to be more comfortable than the public system but like aircraft, you get what you pay for.

Badenoch

I don't disagree but when does "appropriate consideration" end and you become a doormat for every person with a sense of entitlement?

If the passenger behind me is in genuine physical distress if I recline my seat then I would certainly keep it upright. If however he is shoving my seat because he can't use his laptop then he gets no consideration whatsoever.

Flubber2012

Apparently I'm at least 20 years older than you. Your experiences might be different than mine. Without getting too personal, I grew up in an upper middle-class/lower upper-class family; I had minimal to no exposure to lower income people. In med school, I learned is that some "poor" people were dealt a ...... hand and they are doing the best they can. This was eye opening to me and caused me to moderate my old worldview of "if you're not successful, it's your fault" and caused me to change how I interact with other people.

Your analogy to the delivery of health care is irrelevant to my point here. I must also point out that I don't ask the recliner in front of me not to recline. If s/he reclines on a day flight, I might think they're selfish but I don't do anything about it.

Since you went in another direction, you might wonder how my medical school experience pertains to reclining? As I said before, seeing the misfortunes of patients and how they deal with it affected how I chose to treat other people (not in a medical sense). Having learned that people with less are not necessarily unworthy, and remembering what my parents' taught me about the Golden Rule, I've chosen to conduct my life in a certain way where, I hope, I show consideration to my fellow man/woman. If you choose to live otherwise but within the law, that's fine. However, if you choose to always have your own way, I don't think you're entitled to any courtesy or privileges beyond what the law requires.

My question about "your time of need" pertains to the high level issue of how you fit into the world and interact with other people. I don't recline except on overnight flights where I reckon the person behind me won't actually suffer from my recline. If they're tall or take issue with my reclining, I don't recline. If the person behind me is reclining, I recline during sleeping hours. I tend not to recline if I'm in the bulkhead because it can set off a cascade there the guy in the last row is screwed. While I might want to look out the window, if most people are sleeping, I keep my shade down.

Good luck in your medical career. I hope that you will become a compassionate and technically skilled physician.

CitizenWorld

I don't think it is, the primary point I was trying to convey is how ridiculous some of the fits of rage in this thread are when the person in front reclines. I do agree with you that consideration to other pax is a good thing, it's silly to complain about what you knew could happen. I don't entertain demands for private rooms on wards because patient A doesn't like having other folks in the same room as him for example; you knew what you were getting into.

I'm going wildly off topic here but I suppose I'm a bit of the lack of responsibility people take for their own health then just dump their problems into your lap without making any effort to help themselves as well. Medical care is a team effort with the patient in the middle of it, I struggle to sympathise with the diabetic who complains of peripheral neuropathy but absconds from treatment, ignores dietary advice and refuses to lose weight. There's a really crappy Western culture of "doctor, fix me" and throwing the entirety of the responsibility onto the health system.

I would answer this by saying that I'm happy to help a person out if they genuinely need it. While I consider myself a very polite passenger/seatmate, I don't think complaining about a recline is a genuine need that someone can't put up with for a few hours. Especially when there are plenty of options even in coach to stretch your legs or move around a bit. It doesn't help that I'm 6ft tall and don't really have an issue with coach when I have to fly it. If you have to cowboy up and deal with it then just do it.

My sincere thanks!

HMO

I found beautiful all the anti reclining speech, you must care you fellow passenger, you must compromise, etc., etc. But for at least 99% of these people, compromise means no-reclining. Period.

They never ask "please, recline a little" - they demand "don't recline!"

The front pax must comply with the behind pax needs, but the behind pax don't need to help to fulfill the front pax needs - e.g., the pax who wrote the have medical condition and need to recline. I don't recall NO ONE replying to these posts (and I'll be very happy and surprise if someone shows me one).

TRVLUPGD

I usually do not recline in Y, but occasionally if I have a stiff knee or ankle, I do need to recline. In the Los days I waited till meals were done, now that is not an option with no meals on domestic!
I do ease into recline IF I do it.

LTBoston

Well, yeah, a few posts ago someone pointed out that the only way the front pax could recline would be if he stuck his long legs beneath the seat in front and left them there for the entire flight. Sitting up straight with his feet on the floor would have meant his knees would have prevented the front pax from reclining. So his cooperation was definitely needed.

smidgy

what is "day" to you is often "night" to others. my sleeping hours may not be the same as your sleeping hours. not everyone works a 9-5 job.

Flubber2012

I apply the Golden Rule. I don't like to be reclined into. Thus, basically the only time I recline is on overnight flights when most people are trying to sleep (including me). How is that being a doormat?

Are you trying to imply that if you don't impose your will upon others you're a doormat?

Flubber2012

In my 40 years of flying, it is clear when most people are sleeping. To be concrete, a standard US redeye leaves the West Coast between 22:00 and 23:00 PS/DT and arrives on the East Coast around 06:00 ES/DT. Most flights to Europe from the East Coast leave around 18:00 ES/DT and arrive in Europe in the early morning. I would try to recline on those flights.

While I try to be considerate to my fellow passenger, I assume that we are reasonably one the same clock. If you asked me not to recline on one of these flights, I'd abide by your request.

If you were lying to gain extra space (a real dick move), bad karma on you.

smidgy

well, you would be assuming incorrectly. I work nights, and, even if it is a day flight, I will be trying to sleep. I choose to purchase a seat from an airline with reclining seats so I can recline and try to sleep. and no, I am not being selfish, no more than the reclining sleeping people on a red eye.

Flubber2012

I was responding thinking that I had reclined and you objected.

However, the situation seems to be that you would recline into me during the "day" and I would think you inconsiderate. However, I have said that I might think you inconsiderate but I would not do anything.

What's the problem? Do you think my thinking you inconsiderate will hurt you in some way?

smidgy

posted and deleted by FLubber:


I smell BS on your assertion. However, as I have said previously, I would honor your request that I not recline, even on a redeye.

If you are lying about being on an alternative schedule such that you have more room, you have to live with your conscience.

I don't see a problem here.
**************************

why in the world would I lie about working nights on a public board to a bunch of strangers? why would you call someone a liar? you don't think there are a lot of people who work nights? how odd to call someone a liar about their work hours.. very strange.

anyway, you misunderstand. I don't care at all if the person in front of me reclines. I recline, too (as I stated, because I want to try to sleep, due to the FACT that my "night" is not the same as other peoples' "nights".)

smidgy

of course your thoughts don't hurt me. sheesh. you stated that you would understand people reclining on a red eye cause people are trying to sleep, but on a day flight it is selfish.

I just pointed out that some people (due to wrk hours) have their days and nights mixed up. hence, they are recling for the same reason the people on the red eye are and thus are not selfish.

Tchiowa

In addition, people on a day flight may have connected from an International. There is not guaranteeing what body time they are dealing with. Or maybe their baby kept them awake all night the night before.

If someone wants to sleep, he should recline and try to sleep. Don't need permission from those who don't want to sleep.