Consolidated thread: Seat recline etiquette.
Sep 7, 2014, 6:27 pm
#331
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How about compromising on half a recline instead of a full recline instead?
I do try not to make my problem someone else's unless I absolutely have to and then I apologise for inflicting things on them.
Sep 7, 2014, 7:03 pm
#332
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On the other hand, not being able to sleep without reclining is the person's own problem (whether self-inflicted or not, it is not the problem of someone behind him/her, unless of course the problem is caused by being hit by the person behind!).
How about compromising on half a recline instead of a full recline instead?
I do try not to make my problem someone else's unless I absolutely have to and then I apologise for inflicting things on them.
How about compromising on half a recline instead of a full recline instead?
I do try not to make my problem someone else's unless I absolutely have to and then I apologise for inflicting things on them.
Sep 7, 2014, 7:11 pm
#333
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Apparently I'm at least 20 years older than you. Your experiences might be different than mine. Without getting too personal, I grew up in an upper middle-class/lower upper-class family; I had minimal to no exposure to lower income people. In med school, I learned is that some "poor" people were dealt a ...... hand and they are doing the best they can. This was eye opening to me and caused me to moderate my old worldview of "if you're not successful, it's your fault" and caused me to change how I interact with other people.
Your analogy to the delivery of health care is irrelevant to my point here. I must also point out that I don't ask the recliner in front of me not to recline. If s/he reclines on a day flight, I might think they're selfish but I don't do anything about it.
Since you went in another direction, you might wonder how my medical school experience pertains to reclining? As I said before, seeing the misfortunes of patients and how they deal with it affected how I chose to treat other people (not in a medical sense). Having learned that people with less are not necessarily unworthy, and remembering what my parents' taught me about the Golden Rule, I've chosen to conduct my life in a certain way where, I hope, I show consideration to my fellow man/woman. If you choose to live otherwise but within the law, that's fine. However, if you choose to always have your own way, I don't think you're entitled to any courtesy or privileges beyond what the law requires.
My question about "your time of need" pertains to the high level issue of how you fit into the world and interact with other people. I don't recline except on overnight flights where I reckon the person behind me won't actually suffer from my recline. If they're tall or take issue with my reclining, I don't recline. If the person behind me is reclining, I recline during sleeping hours. I tend not to recline if I'm in the bulkhead because it can set off a cascade there the guy in the last row is screwed. While I might want to look out the window, if most people are sleeping, I keep my shade down.
Good luck in your medical career. I hope that you will become a compassionate and technically skilled physician.
Your analogy to the delivery of health care is irrelevant to my point here. I must also point out that I don't ask the recliner in front of me not to recline. If s/he reclines on a day flight, I might think they're selfish but I don't do anything about it.
Since you went in another direction, you might wonder how my medical school experience pertains to reclining? As I said before, seeing the misfortunes of patients and how they deal with it affected how I chose to treat other people (not in a medical sense). Having learned that people with less are not necessarily unworthy, and remembering what my parents' taught me about the Golden Rule, I've chosen to conduct my life in a certain way where, I hope, I show consideration to my fellow man/woman. If you choose to live otherwise but within the law, that's fine. However, if you choose to always have your own way, I don't think you're entitled to any courtesy or privileges beyond what the law requires.
My question about "your time of need" pertains to the high level issue of how you fit into the world and interact with other people. I don't recline except on overnight flights where I reckon the person behind me won't actually suffer from my recline. If they're tall or take issue with my reclining, I don't recline. If the person behind me is reclining, I recline during sleeping hours. I tend not to recline if I'm in the bulkhead because it can set off a cascade there the guy in the last row is screwed. While I might want to look out the window, if most people are sleeping, I keep my shade down.
Good luck in your medical career. I hope that you will become a compassionate and technically skilled physician.
Working hard as my family did, we were all instilled with a strong sense of personal responsibility and accountability. We are compassionate. We are not selfish. But we also believe that it is not our responsibility to solve anyone's problems but our own.
In this particular context, I believe that if the airline allows reclining, pax should expect that the row ahead of them may recline, and there is nothing they can do about it. If they have a legitimate medical issue that makes this unbearable for them, they should take responsibility for their own health, safety, and well-being, by booking one of the many seats where the next row forward does not reline.
It is personally irresponsible to book a seat that has a reclining seat ahead of it, then demand that the person ahead not recline, without any regard whatsoever for the personal situation of the person forward. I see much similarity between anti-recliners and those buy homes near an airport and then complain about the noise - buddy, what did you THINK it would sound like to live near an airport?
I apply the Golden Rule. I don't like to be reclined into. Thus, basically the only time I recline is on overnight flights when most people are trying to sleep (including me). How is that being a doormat?
Are you trying to imply that if you don't impose your will upon others you're a doormat?
Are you trying to imply that if you don't impose your will upon others you're a doormat?
On the other hand, not being able to sleep without reclining is the person's own problem (whether self-inflicted or not, it is not the problem of someone behind him/her, unless of course the problem is caused by being hit by the person behind!).
How about compromising on half a recline instead of a full recline instead?
I do try not to make my problem someone else's unless I absolutely have to and then I apologise for inflicting things on them.
How about compromising on half a recline instead of a full recline instead?
I do try not to make my problem someone else's unless I absolutely have to and then I apologise for inflicting things on them.
I like to think of it this way - it may not be your FAULT that you're too tall to fit in a seat with a recliner in front of you, but it is your PROBLEM, not theirs, and it's wrong of you to pass it onto them. I don't.
Sep 7, 2014, 7:44 pm
#334
Join Date: Jun 2014
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I may be wrong, but in don't remember in any post in this or other similar threads, the pax behind stating he/she asked for the front lax to recline a little less. It seems they always demanded the front pax to keep at or return to full upright position.
Last edited by HMO; Sep 7, 2014 at 7:53 pm
Sep 7, 2014, 7:46 pm
#335
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Sep 7, 2014, 7:55 pm
#336
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I apply the Golden Rule. I don't like to be reclined into. Thus, basically the only time I recline is on overnight flights when most people are trying to sleep (including me). How is that being a doormat?
Are you trying to imply that if you don't impose your will upon others you're a doormat?
Are you trying to imply that if you don't impose your will upon others you're a doormat?
You don't recline because you don't like it when people do it to you. That's your choice. I recline because it is more comfortable for me and don't give much thought to what the person behind me might think about it. If they have a problem with me reclining they can take it up with the FA. Otherwise I'll just ignore them.
Sep 7, 2014, 9:08 pm
#337
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Immediately I heard a complaint from the woman behind the second I tried to recline..."oh oh my knees are right on your seat".... I twisted around in surprise to see a largish woman but not exactly of tall build and replied "excuse me?", at which point her husband on the right hand side interjected and told me that I had all the legroom at the front and should be considerate to his wife and not recline my seat at all! Furious, I replied that I'd paid for the seat and should be entitled to recline my seat, and told him I'd never heard of this kind of request before, and myself have to put up with people in the front reclining their seats and never complained myself. He went on to tell me that out of consideration for the people behind that he never reclined his seat, trying to make me feel like the inconsiderate assh*le. When I told him that he could have and should have paid for the exit seats, he told me that he'd booked them 8 months in advance and that the airline had "stuffed it up". Yeah right, at which point he told me do do what I wanted to do in a searly tone. I did not wish to make a scene and granted them their wish.
Of course how you react at the time and how you should react after due introspection are different. In retrospect, what I should have said to him was that his issue was with the airline and not with me, and that after the seatbelt signs were switched off we would discuss it in a civil manner and allow the hostess to arbitrate. But when you are dead to the world and all you want to do is sleep, what to do. What would you do ?
Of course how you react at the time and how you should react after due introspection are different. In retrospect, what I should have said to him was that his issue was with the airline and not with me, and that after the seatbelt signs were switched off we would discuss it in a civil manner and allow the hostess to arbitrate. But when you are dead to the world and all you want to do is sleep, what to do. What would you do ?
Sep 8, 2014, 1:47 am
#340
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Sep 8, 2014, 4:09 am
#341
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The airlines sell seats that recline - not one single airline have come out and said that passengers should not recline if they wish.
There's not a lot the FA can do to stop someone who wants to recline the seat they have paid for - the employer doesn't forbid it so its the seatholder's right to recline if they wish, with the company's full permission.
That said - given the increasing number of reclining wars causing diversions and delays, I can see some of them stopping reclining in economy at least (either that or telling all passengers that reclining seats are allowed to recline!)
There's not a lot the FA can do to stop someone who wants to recline the seat they have paid for - the employer doesn't forbid it so its the seatholder's right to recline if they wish, with the company's full permission.
That said - given the increasing number of reclining wars causing diversions and delays, I can see some of them stopping reclining in economy at least (either that or telling all passengers that reclining seats are allowed to recline!)
Sep 8, 2014, 6:06 am
#342
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There isn't much of an issue for those who want to recline. It's not prohibited by the CoC or airline rules - except for those few seats that don't recline or on those airlines which install only non-reclining seats - so you can recline as you wish, unless someone behind you uses Knee Defenders.
The unresolvable issue is for those who want to prohibit the pax ahead of them from reclining. But, there are simple solutions for that: 1) buy a bulkhead, exit row, economy plus, business, or first class seat, 2) fly one of the airlines that doesn't offer recliners on its aircraft 3) once you're aboard, try to trade seats with someone who has no recliner ahead of them. Failing that, put on big-boy pants and suffer through having someone reclined in front of you till the flight ends.
One more possibility - you can ask politely if the pax ahead would be willing to forego his recline for the duration of the flight. Offering some compensation for this favor would increase the possibility of acceptance. And if you're polite and friendly, it is possible, however unlikely, that the pax ahead of you might be willing to work out a compromise, such as only reclining for part of the flight, or reclining only partway for the duration of the flight. Again, polite and friendly, offering compensation for the favor, and recognizing that it IS a favor you're asking for and "No" is a completely acceptable answer, would all go a long way toward improving your odds for success.
The unresolvable issue is for those who want to prohibit the pax ahead of them from reclining. But, there are simple solutions for that: 1) buy a bulkhead, exit row, economy plus, business, or first class seat, 2) fly one of the airlines that doesn't offer recliners on its aircraft 3) once you're aboard, try to trade seats with someone who has no recliner ahead of them. Failing that, put on big-boy pants and suffer through having someone reclined in front of you till the flight ends.
One more possibility - you can ask politely if the pax ahead would be willing to forego his recline for the duration of the flight. Offering some compensation for this favor would increase the possibility of acceptance. And if you're polite and friendly, it is possible, however unlikely, that the pax ahead of you might be willing to work out a compromise, such as only reclining for part of the flight, or reclining only partway for the duration of the flight. Again, polite and friendly, offering compensation for the favor, and recognizing that it IS a favor you're asking for and "No" is a completely acceptable answer, would all go a long way toward improving your odds for success.
Sep 8, 2014, 7:23 am
#344
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One more possibility - you can ask politely if the pax ahead would be willing to forego his recline for the duration of the flight. Offering some compensation for this favor would increase the possibility of acceptance. And if you're polite and friendly, it is possible, however unlikely, that the pax ahead of you might be willing to work out a compromise, such as only reclining for part of the flight, or reclining only partway for the duration of the flight. Again, polite and friendly, offering compensation for the favor, and recognizing that it IS a favor you're asking for and "No" is a completely acceptable answer, would all go a long way toward improving your odds for success.
Whether we like it or not, we are living in a capitalist world. As long as airlines sells reclining economy seats and you purchase a said seats, then you just have to accept it as what it is. Nobody stops you from reclining, and you don't have the right to stop others either.
Sep 8, 2014, 8:04 am
#345
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^^ Exactly.