Consolidated thread: Seat recline etiquette.
Sep 2, 2014, 3:47 pm
#241
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
I don't recline on short hauls because I don't like it when people recline into me. I've learned to fall asleep sitting up.
As for long hauls, it's expected. I also expect people to have the decency to move it back up for meals and such. I've only had one person refuse during meal service (even when I asked nicely), in which the FA asked the guy to sit up and he did. Funny part was after this, he never reclined again.
As for long hauls, it's expected. I also expect people to have the decency to move it back up for meals and such. I've only had one person refuse during meal service (even when I asked nicely), in which the FA asked the guy to sit up and he did. Funny part was after this, he never reclined again.
That said, I don't see it as all that discourteous to recline in Economy Plus. I don't do it myself (unless the seat behind is empty or occupied by a child or something), but I do think some people actually buy up to those seats with the expectation of enough legroom that they can recline without bothering the person behind them. If the person in front of me in E+ does it, no big deal. I was surprised one of the recent slapfights about reclining happened in E+.
Sep 2, 2014, 8:42 pm
#242
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SYD
Programs: QF
Posts: 490
I'm 6ft and have no issues being comfortable in coach. You're far nicer than I would've been, height is no excuse for preventing the person in front from using the seat. I would've said that the recline is a function of the seat and that he could do the same and if he prevented me from doing so the flight attendant would be informed. Same method as dealing with the COS who wants the armrest up. Stand your ground!
Sep 3, 2014, 1:12 am
#243
Join Date: May 2001
Location: TPA 50%/BKK 30%/HKG 20%
Programs: UA 1K MM - AF G – TK G – AZ Ex – Hilton D – Marriott G – IHG P
Posts: 1,990
So it seems the airlines have come down on the side of the people who want to recline rather than the knee defender people. Hopefully we can end these discussions. The airline policy is
Well said.
http://www.flyertalk.com/story/crewe...t-near-me.html
"If you are cramped and totally against people reclining, I’m sorry, but that’s all I can say. As far as my power is concerned, the seat backs are made to recline. Make your case to the person in front of you, sure, but you must do so in a way that does not include touching, threatening or aggressing anyone in any way. If you do, you will not be getting more legroom. You’ll be getting an early landing and a big Buh-bye.
There’s only one real way to get airlines to give you more legroom. Buy the heck out of tickets for carriers’ “Plus” Economy seats. And never ones on thecrampiest — and most profitable! —airline around (Spirit, by the way, has non-reclining seats). If the extra legroom seats keep filling up, the airlines will keep adding more. They might cost a little more, but they’re cheaper than the fines for diverting a flight!"
There’s only one real way to get airlines to give you more legroom. Buy the heck out of tickets for carriers’ “Plus” Economy seats. And never ones on thecrampiest — and most profitable! —airline around (Spirit, by the way, has non-reclining seats). If the extra legroom seats keep filling up, the airlines will keep adding more. They might cost a little more, but they’re cheaper than the fines for diverting a flight!"
http://www.flyertalk.com/story/crewe...t-near-me.html
Sep 3, 2014, 5:30 am
#244
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wonderful Weald of kent
Programs: BAEC Bronze
Posts: 989
I'm 6ft and have no issues being comfortable in coach. You're far nicer than I would've been, height is no excuse for preventing the person in front from using the seat. I would've said that the recline is a function of the seat and that he could do the same and if he prevented me from doing so the flight attendant would be informed. Same method as dealing with the COS who wants the armrest up. Stand your ground!
I just found it a tad hypocritical that he tried to stop me reclining, but it was OK for HIM to recline!
Sep 3, 2014, 5:44 am
#245
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SYD
Programs: QF
Posts: 490
Sep 3, 2014, 1:24 pm
#247
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: AA Plat., UA Plat., HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 91
A few of my thoughts on reclining:
If the seat allows reclining the passenger in the seat is entitled to use it, regardless of the comfort of the person behind the passenger.
The only time that etiquette suggests that you should sit up is during meal service. For example, on Lufthansa the FAs will ask you to sit up when they serve the cabin. After the trays are taken away I will look behind to make sure the person behind me has finished eating. If they have not I give them a reasonable amount of extra time (20 minutes or so) before slowly reclining.
Obviously you have to sit up during takeoff and landing. Sometimes during heavy turbulence it may make sense to sit up as well.
I hear a lot of people who say, "but I'm 6'3" and you can't recline because it will hit my knees". This is a myth perpetrated by tall people who don't like seat recliners. The way the seat reclining works it doesn't impinge onto your knee space at all unless your shins are extremely long. 6'3" isn't tall enough to make this complaint. 6'6" still isn't tall enough for people with ordinary body proportions. 6'8" is the roughly average cutoff where knee impingement is a problem with reclining seats. This is simple geometry and ergonomics / human factors.
Desire to use a laptop is not a valid reason to deny seat reclining for the person in front of you. Keep in mind, the tray tables slide out on most planes. If they don't then you can always put the laptop on your actual lap. Even in coach this will allow most users with reasonable sized stomachs and reasonable sized laptops to continue working.
Always recline slowly!
If its a daytime flight and you notice someone having trouble behind you trying to get out of their row to use the restroom it is nice manners to sit up temporarily to help them escape. Elderly people tend to be seat grabbers and I find its more comfortable for both of us if I just sit up and let them negotiate their way out of the row behind me.
Never, for any reason, ever, use a seat jammer or a knee defender. If you need to make special arrangements to fly for some reason do so with the airline. Book a bulkhead, exit row, business, first class, or even handicap seating as needed. In my opinion people using a seat jammer should be treated like people tampering with a smoke detector and should be prosecuted. You are tampering with a working aircraft!
Cheers!
If the seat allows reclining the passenger in the seat is entitled to use it, regardless of the comfort of the person behind the passenger.
The only time that etiquette suggests that you should sit up is during meal service. For example, on Lufthansa the FAs will ask you to sit up when they serve the cabin. After the trays are taken away I will look behind to make sure the person behind me has finished eating. If they have not I give them a reasonable amount of extra time (20 minutes or so) before slowly reclining.
Obviously you have to sit up during takeoff and landing. Sometimes during heavy turbulence it may make sense to sit up as well.
I hear a lot of people who say, "but I'm 6'3" and you can't recline because it will hit my knees". This is a myth perpetrated by tall people who don't like seat recliners. The way the seat reclining works it doesn't impinge onto your knee space at all unless your shins are extremely long. 6'3" isn't tall enough to make this complaint. 6'6" still isn't tall enough for people with ordinary body proportions. 6'8" is the roughly average cutoff where knee impingement is a problem with reclining seats. This is simple geometry and ergonomics / human factors.
Desire to use a laptop is not a valid reason to deny seat reclining for the person in front of you. Keep in mind, the tray tables slide out on most planes. If they don't then you can always put the laptop on your actual lap. Even in coach this will allow most users with reasonable sized stomachs and reasonable sized laptops to continue working.
Always recline slowly!
If its a daytime flight and you notice someone having trouble behind you trying to get out of their row to use the restroom it is nice manners to sit up temporarily to help them escape. Elderly people tend to be seat grabbers and I find its more comfortable for both of us if I just sit up and let them negotiate their way out of the row behind me.
Never, for any reason, ever, use a seat jammer or a knee defender. If you need to make special arrangements to fly for some reason do so with the airline. Book a bulkhead, exit row, business, first class, or even handicap seating as needed. In my opinion people using a seat jammer should be treated like people tampering with a smoke detector and should be prosecuted. You are tampering with a working aircraft!
Cheers!
Sep 3, 2014, 2:23 pm
#248
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on the path to perdition
Programs: Delta, United
Posts: 4,786
Recent incident #1 Knee defender speaks out:
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...e-seat-dispute
He tries to justify what he did but ...
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...e-seat-dispute
He tries to justify what he did but ...
Sep 3, 2014, 2:44 pm
#249
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: IHG Plat, AA GLD, DL FO, Natl Elite
Posts: 259
The golden rule.
I don't like the people who recline faster than the plane flies. So I move my seat back slowly.
I don't like it when people jam the seat back into my knees. So I look behind me to get an idea of how much travel I have before I hit the passenger's knees.
That's pretty much my code of conduct for reclining. I try to get economy comfort seats when possible, and prefer the ones where a EC seat is behind me so I can recline more.
I don't like the people who recline faster than the plane flies. So I move my seat back slowly.
I don't like it when people jam the seat back into my knees. So I look behind me to get an idea of how much travel I have before I hit the passenger's knees.
That's pretty much my code of conduct for reclining. I try to get economy comfort seats when possible, and prefer the ones where a EC seat is behind me so I can recline more.
Sep 3, 2014, 3:25 pm
#250
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Programs: KLM, BA Silver, Etihad
Posts: 918
As a matter of fact....
If your feet are flat on the floor that might be. Extend your feet under the seat in front of you.
Loaded meaning "lots of money" or the other type?
The thing is that we all have to make choices in life. Sometimes we have freedom to make any choice, sometimes there are things in life that restrict our choices (like money). Some people who can afford business class won't pay for it because it doesn't seem to be worth the cost to them.
Point of all this is that we make our choice for whatever reason then we accept the results of our choice. Life can be really frustrating otherwise.
If your feet are flat on the floor that might be. Extend your feet under the seat in front of you.
Loaded meaning "lots of money" or the other type?
The thing is that we all have to make choices in life. Sometimes we have freedom to make any choice, sometimes there are things in life that restrict our choices (like money). Some people who can afford business class won't pay for it because it doesn't seem to be worth the cost to them.Point of all this is that we make our choice for whatever reason then we accept the results of our choice. Life can be really frustrating otherwise.
If the costs for extra room were a little more incremental than double on average then your and others statements might hold more water.
Yes loaded means lots of money.
The point you and others seem to be missing is that I have never at any point stated that people shouldn't recline nor have I ever spoken to anyone that has on me.
Where possible I get the over wing seat but due to airline policy this is becoming more and more difficult to secure.
Maybe we could flip it and say, look behind you and if you see someone rather tall ask yourself the question do I really need to do this in relation to the discomfort to Another human I will cause? Am I just doing this because I can and does it make me that more comfortable on a two hour flight?
Sep 3, 2014, 3:32 pm
#251
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Recent incident #1 Knee defender speaks out:
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...e-seat-dispute
He tries to justify what he did but ...
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...e-seat-dispute
He tries to justify what he did but ...
Sep 4, 2014, 1:01 am
#252
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Tokyo
Programs: SPG LTPlat ANA Plat
Posts: 66
A talking head on CNN said basically the same thing. The airlines need to have a policy on this and announce it.
For the future: I was on a flight recently that had new seats that--I don't know how to describe it better--recline by moving the lower part of the seat forward. In this case, when you recline, you reduce your own leg room.
Though I STRONGLY disagree with those that believe that people don't have the right to recline simply because the person behind happens to be tall, I do think this is a perfect solution to the problem. As long as everyone knows what they are getting into before they buy their tickets--fine.
For the future: I was on a flight recently that had new seats that--I don't know how to describe it better--recline by moving the lower part of the seat forward. In this case, when you recline, you reduce your own leg room.
Though I STRONGLY disagree with those that believe that people don't have the right to recline simply because the person behind happens to be tall, I do think this is a perfect solution to the problem. As long as everyone knows what they are getting into before they buy their tickets--fine.
Give me a recliner, but no whiners !
Sep 4, 2014, 2:36 am
#253
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Staffordshire UK
Programs: FB LT Plat, BA LTG, LH HON
Posts: 273
Let's be honest if somebody reclines quickly (as we can assume from the story) then the normal reaction is to push back to protect yourself and your property. Two wrongs do not make a right!
Sep 4, 2014, 4:52 am
#254
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 523
Sep 4, 2014, 5:05 am
#255
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: DL DM 2MM, BA Bronze, Various Hotels
Posts: 10,187
Short hauls - I do not typically recline.
Long haul flights - I might recline a little before/during meal service, but do not typically take advantage of the full recline until afterwards.
A couple things that grate me with the whole recline debate include:
- Those pax who feel they can gripe about someone "reclining into them" but still recline their own seat.
- Pax who significantly slouch down in their seat so their knees are ramming into the seat in front of them.
Long haul flights - I might recline a little before/during meal service, but do not typically take advantage of the full recline until afterwards.
A couple things that grate me with the whole recline debate include:
- Those pax who feel they can gripe about someone "reclining into them" but still recline their own seat.
- Pax who significantly slouch down in their seat so their knees are ramming into the seat in front of them.