Ancien Maestro

Weighing in.. I don't mind the odd breeze with smoke travelling to and fro.. but on the balcony with strong cigar smoke after paying good money for a suite, I quickly remove myself from the balcony and shut the door..

Mary2e

And I don't like the smell of most perfumes and colognes. Except I don't run around insulting people who bathe in it.

We all have to live together, your likes and dislikes are no more important than mine. Particularly outdoors.

User Name

We're not just talking outdoors though. We are talking about something that is done outdoors that goes indoors.

Your likes and dislikes are no more important than mine, and mine include the use of a room that does not have cigarette smoke in it.

The lack of common decency and courtesy being shown by some of the posters on this thread is utterly astounding, and very saddening indeed.

dcpatti

Non-smoker wants to have an environment (including outside) that is completely free of smoke smell. They are "just standing up for themselves and protecting their rights."

Smoker wants to have a cigarette in an outdoor space where it's not prohibited (and may be expressly allowed) by the hotel owner. They "lack common decency and courtesy" and more harsh descriptions.

There are two different groups of people with directly opposing goals; you can't have what you want unless I give up what I want, and vice-versa. We both will not get what we want. And while many smokers have taken steps to minimize the impact to non-smokers, which is effectively "working towards compromise," the non-smokers are not suggesting compromise of their own. The only acceptable solution to them is "don't smoke at all, period." No one has suggested anything for a non-smoker to do that may help improve enjoyment of the room when in close proximity to a smoker. Maybe bringing a travel-sized Febreeze to freshen things? Being a smoker, I don't have a lot of tips for non-smokers but the fact that none have been offered does say quite a bit.

Would you stop using your BBQ grill if the smell of cooking meat made your vegan neighbor ill? Yeah I didn't think so.

I'm not here to debate whether smoking is a bad habit, but for now it's a legal one. And based on this thread, I'm simply going to ask each hotel what their policy is, and abide by that. I'll just ask first from now on. I will continue to be discreet, and will do my best to not impact others, but I'm not going too far out of my way for those who are unwilling to compromise. if my neighbor asks me politely to refrain from smoking, I'll be happy to oblige. If they start shouting or making comments, I will be less likely to oblige.

We all do things that annoy the neighbors, at home and in hotels. The only way you will get an environment free of unwanted sounds, smells or sights is to go live on a private island. If you don't, then you have to share with others. You have to listen to their babies cry, hear their music, smell their BBQ, and yes sometimes you have to smell their cigarettes.

N965VJ

You really need to think about staying in better hotels.

Mary2e

Please see DCPatti's post right after yours, because I couldn't have said it better myself.

I find it really disheartening that some people are not willing to give an inch, yet I suspect they also do things that may bother others. Occasionally, if the cologne smell is bad enough, like in an elevator, my husband will start coughing and wheezing (rare, but it has happened). I'm lucky, I just don't like the smell. Should we ban cologne in hotels and elevators? No, if he's in that situation, he just gets away from the smell. You could close your balcony door for a few minutes if you don't like the smell of smoke.

It seems nothing a smoker does will satisfy the zealots. Nothing.

hedur

I understand the "logic" you're trying to use with your argument (that my wish to not inhale/smell your smoke is infringing on your right to smoke) but, unfortunately, your argument doesn't hold water. I'll give you a scenario that will hopefully help you to understand that.

Last year I was at the Four Season on Maui for 9 nights. Because of the time change and the fact that I had come from LA I was up before 6 every morning. The first four (or maybe five) mornings I was there I heard a toddler screaming bloody murder from a balcony two floors down (I could see the balcony because my room partially faced it). I only peeked out a couple of the mornings but when I did I saw the mom (I assume) sitting there sipping her coffee while her child screamed for at least five (maybe 10?) minutes. By this time if anyone was sleeping in that section of the hotel, they would have been awakened by the screams echoing around the courtyard (unless very deep sleepers) and anyone trying to enjoy their balcony would have probably chosen to go inside. Using the "logic" of your argument, anyone who was choosing to sleep at 6 AM and didn't want to be awoken by the child's screams was infringing on the rights of the woman wanting to enjoy her balcony with her child.

The fact is, if she was enjoying her balcony and not infringing on others (that would mean taking her child inside when he starts screaming -- the next door neighbors would still have a complaint, obviously, but right now we're talking about balconies) she would have every right to it. The person being disturbed by the screaming isn't infringing on her rights by wanting to sleep, even if it means she can't enjoy her balcony until she figures out a way to do it without disturbing others.

Bottom line is, people who would take their ipod and speakers out on a hotel balcony and blast music are rude. People who would have a shouting match on their balcony are rude. People who would "bathe" in perfume and go in a public place (on a hotel balcony isn't the same unless they were literally spraying it into the wind) are rude. And people who would smoke on their hotel balcony...knowing full well that there's a good chance someone else is trying to read, eat breakfast, look at the view...are rude. Period.

BTW, I never complained about the woman and the screaming child, nor would I ever complain about someone smoking. It would just be another moment I could marvel at the lack of courtesy of some.

lwildernorva

Confused by this. Cologne, screaming children, and the like, as painful as they are, are certainly not explicitly banned by hotels. I understand your point if we're talking about a property that advertises smoking and non-smoking rooms. In that situation, I don't think I have any right to complain at all if while standing on the balcony of my non-smoking room, I smell smoke from someone who is smoking on the balcony of their smoking room. If I find the situation offensive enough, which sometimes occurs even within the rooms in such mixed smoking/non-smoking situations if the ventilation is inadequate, then I should direct my business somewhere else.

Like hotels that advertise themselves as non-smoking properties. Non-smoking customers who take rooms in these properties frequently take that advertised feature of the property into account when booking a hotel.

And in what I interpret as a convoluted way, some have attempted to define a hotel room as just the room and not the balcony attached to it. As I do not believe that anyone would have a right to access the balcony without paying for the room (or being a guest, subject to the same rules as the customer who paid for the room), I think the hotel's intent is to limit smoking both in the room and on the balcony.

Which is why I like the approach dcpatti has adopted: ask about the hotel's interpretation of those rules when you check in. I suspect when asked, most staff would say no smoking is allowed on the balconies either, but if I am wrong, then it's good for both smokers and non-smokers to know that.

Because, from my point of view, if that's the policy, it's once again time for me to look for a property where non-smoking means anywhere on the property that I think the hotel has a reasonable chance of controlling rather than just inside the four walls of a room.

RobbieRunner

Courtesy goes a long way with me. I happen to be a life-long NON smoker.

Last summer I was enjoying a nice dinner at an outside dining area in Chicago.
After I finished, a very gracious man turned to me and asked "Sir, do you mind if I smoke briefly? I won't if it offends you."
I told him to go ahead. The way I looked at it, he was kind enough to ask, and I could tolerate it "outside" for a few minutes. In a restaurant, either he or I would have to leave. I just can't tolerate smoke indoors. It's not very pleasant outdoors, but I can deal with it for moments at a time.

My girlfriend? She can't deal with it at any time and for any reason. She'll get up and leave even if she was in the MIDDLE of her dinner if someone lit up a cigarette - even OUTSIDE. She barks if we walk PAST someone on the sidewalk smoking.

I try and be a little more tolerant, even though I really can't stand cigarette smoke.

As far as patio/balcony smoking? If the hotel is 100% smoke free, I would assume they would not have ashtrays even on the room patios/balconies. If they do, then I would assume this is approved. If not, then I would imagine that a few complaints would end the smoking.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

I hope your girlfriend doesn't drive a car!! lots of smog coming out of those!

just out of interest... how would your girlfriend deal with a nurse looking after her or a loved one? nurses have very high rate of smoking.

RobbieRunner

You'd have to ask her. I'm not my girlfriend's spokesperson.

TWA884

That may be the case in Australia, I highly doubt that the same is true for American nurses.

FWIW, I don't trust any healthcare providers who smoke and will refuse their services.

PDPhoto

It would be fair to say the selfishness of smokers who want to smoke anywhere, regardless of a sensible smoking ban matches that of the 'power recliners' who drive their seat backs into the legs of the people behind them the nanosecond the wheels have left the ground, with absolutely no regard for the pain and discomfort their actions cause.

I wonder how many smokers are also 'power recliners? I'd think it would be a very high percentage.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

really? why do you think I would compare Australia when I am talking predominantly with US based citizens on a US based forum?

I check my facts before posting: my information comes from tobaccofreenurses.org. - an American organization. according to their statistics, 18 per cent of nurses smoke.

I highly doubt next time you, a family member, friend or loved one ends up on the trauma table in an ER that you will actually refuse life saving care because one of the nurses or doctors smokes.

Jaimito Cartero

18% is supposed to be a high rate? I believe that is at or below the US average, in fact.