Kagehitokiri

there are bans of smoking in public places.

why would a separately ventilated room with "airlock style" doors ever be a problem?

hedur

Either you've responded to the wrong post (mine) or have misunderstood the subject of the thread. We are discussing smoking on hotel balconies where it is very easy for the smoke to waft into the room of a neighbor who has their balcony door open. Or are you of the opinion that anyone who doesn't want to smell cigarette smoke, even at a non-smoking hotel, should be required to have their door shut at all times?

Kagehitokiri

when is this moving to OMNI?

hotels can explicitly ban smoking on balconies and in public areas
no explicit ban by hotel or municipality = allowed

dcpatti

Actually, unless you're at a horserace track, a reasonable person would not expect to encounter a large steaming pile of feces outside (or inside for that matter), whereas a reasonable person can and should expect to encounter cigarette smoke in many outdoor public spaces. So your analogy us quite off-the-mark.

If you've got a hotel room overlooking a public beach and smokers are in proximity, how do you react? Or a room with a balcony over a popular main street? I know of several such places, one of which is a boutique hotel that runs about $400/night during peak season and provides ashtrays on the balcony... They also offer balcony breakfast service. High end, personalized service, and an encouragement of use of balconies with smoking being acceptable. The rooms themselves and all common areas of the hotel are non-smoking.

hedur

A reasonable person would never expect to encounter cigarette smoke from the balcony next door (or directly below) at a non-smoking hotel. And because the smell from a pile of poop is about as good (and as unwelcome) as cigarette smell, the analogy isn't off-the-mark at all. Except for the difference that (depending on the proximity) cigarette smoke can be harmful and feces odor isn't harmful in the least.

Ancien Maestro

Times are changing.. I used to think its acceptable smoking on the balcony.. I no longer believe its acceptable at a non smoking hotel.

Kevin AA

I don't smoke cigarettes, but I think the anti-smoking crusade is getting out of hand here... what's wrong with smoking and non-smoking rooms? Everyone was happy until someone thought it was a great idea to eliminate smoking rooms which has resulted in people getting even madder about smoking.

PVDtoDEL

What's wrong with smoking in non-smoking rooms? Perhaps the part that you aren't supposed to smoke in a non-smoking room?

Kevin AA

separate smoking and non-smoking rooms

TWA884

The next time that you check into a hotel, read the fine print on registration form before you sign it. It is a binding contract. The right of hoteliers to impose cleaning fees on those who smoke in violation of no smoking rules is perfectly legal.

I am aware of no consumer protection laws that give one the right to smoke in a non-smoking property.

dcpatti

A Reasonable expectation would be that the environment can't be controlled. While I would not expect my neighbors to come onto my balcony to have a conversation, I absolutely would expect their conversation to drift into my room. That's because it's outside and while I'm still not sure if a balcony follows inside-the-hotel rules, I do know that you can'd quite control the wind.

It's funny because when I started this thread, my intent was to maybe pick up a few tips on being less intrusive to others while still being able to indulge my habit, or an actual, definitive answer (fact, not emotion) that the rules of the room convey to the balcony. But the response from some has been so caustic and so overly dramatic that a productive discussion becomes wishful thinking.

Not to say that there aren't some useful and helpful posts in this thread--- there certainly are, and I appreciate those. I think, from now on, I'll just ask each hotel and do what they say.

dcpatti

In most cases the hotel states there is a penalty for smoking IN THE ROOM but I don't think anyone has determined if the room equals the balcony or if the balcony does not follow those rules, given that it is outside.

While there is no penalty for doing so, I'd expect a guest to shake beach sand our of their towel and shoes on the balcony but not expect them to do so their room, so there are different standards inside and outside.

Unless the hotel is on a non-smoking campus I interpret the phrase "non-smoking hotel" to mean "no smoking inside the hotel." In fact, many "non-smoking hotels" provide ashtrays, benches etc on their property for smokers, and often times it's right in front of the hotel. If they wanted a non-smoking property they'd not set benches and ashtrays on the property.

sonofzeus

+1

THX for articulating the non-PC POV.

Where's my spit cup?

Plato90s

This idea that all the rules which apply inside the room apply to the balcony makes little sense.

For example, I can walk around naked in the room even in a hotel which isn't nudist. Other guests would probably object to a naked person on the balcony. Doubly so if the guest in question is performing an activity on the balcony that would be acceptable inside the room but which other guests likely don't wish to witness.

Different rules apply on the balcony, just as yet different rules apply for people on the ground floor whose "balcony" has direct pool access. There's less privacy when outside the 4 walls, and also fewer rules. Unless the hotel prohibits smoking on its property in its entirety, I don't see how anyone can reasonably claim that the balcony can't be used by smokers.

Yaatri

No, thank you. I said I a lawyer can probably find............
Have I said anywhere that one should smoke on anywhere at will in a nonsmoking property?
I have stated that even smoking outside can get into HVAC system and that smoke is annoying.
So, it's not necessary for you to be combative.

Can you cite any incidents where someone has been fined or prosecuted for smoking on a balcony?

Smokers that I know are very very mindful of their indulgence and how it might offend others. But I have seen stupid smokers with a cigarette in hand at a gas station. Some are jerks, just like some non-smokers are jerks. Let's not use smoking as the one factor that determines "jerkiness".

I don't have to smoke. I can go for weeks without smoking. Even when outdoors, if I want to smoke, I ask people I am with if they would mind if I lit up. Some say they don't and some say they would rather have me not light up, in which case I comply. But I WILL not bullied by some stranger telling me to stop in a smoking section of a facility or in open public area, which has happened a couple of times. Smoking around people who don;t is bad, but telling people to no smoke in a smoking section is, well, nazi-like. Hence the term.

Non smokers should not be forced to inhale smoke. It's unreasonable to expect zero exposure to smoke, automobile exhaust, peanut dust or any such matter unreasonable.

I am sure hotels expect people to not smoke in their non-smoking rooms o no-smoking public areas, but they would probably rather get revenue from a smoker than have their rooms go vacant, as long as a smoker does not go around flouting rules and indulge in their habit in a non-intrusive way.

Peanut, smoking, babies on a plane, and reclining seat have so much in common.

Attempt to create peanut free environment due to extreme fear/dislike of peanuts.
Attempt to create smoke free environment due to extreme fear/dislike of hint of smoke
Attempt to create recline free environment for them due to extreme fear/dislike of the person in the seat in front of you reclining.
Attempt to create baby free environment due to extreme dislike of babies on the plane.

I don't know about the last three, but the first one has been labeled as Mass Psychological Illness, or mass hysteria.