miniliq

I thought both UA (DC10) and TWA (L1011) had nonstops in that market -- you'll have to set me straight.

I think Republic, using DC-9s, did both of those.

Fairly sure of four of them (but the equipment may not be totally correct): Braniff (727), AirCal (737), Eastern (727), and Western (727). For the fifth, I'll try Hughes Airwest (DC-9), because a few years earlier it was the only carrier on that hop.

Seat 2A

Greetings from Rochester, Minnesota - home of the Mayo Clinic and at least one pretty good Chinese restaurant. And now to miniliq's answers that I wasn't able to get to yesterday

Seat 2A

Thanks to jlemon for another set of excellent questions. I'll have a gander a couple of them...

The first question has a time line of April 1981:

1) This airline provided the only nonstop service with one daily round trip between JFK and LAS. Name the air carrier and the equipment operated.

I believe it was TWA that once operated this route with a 747, but I'm guessing by 1981 it had become an L-1011.

6) This regional airline based in the northeast U.S. flew three (3) different jet aircraft types at different times during their existence in addition to flying turboprop equipment. Identify the air carrier and the three jet aircraft types they operated.

The only one I can think of was New York Air which flew DC-9-30s, DC-9-80s and a couple of 737-300s. I'm not so sure about the turboprop equipment, but if it was New York Air, I think it may have been a Beech 1900.

7) In April of 1974, this commuter airline operated DHC-6 "Twin Otter" turboprop service several times a day between two major airports in the northeast U.S. They had some interesting competition as well in the form of three major air carriers flying jet equipment on the very same route. Two of these carriers operated Boeing 707-320 service while the third carrier operated flights with Boeing 727-200 and Douglas DC-9-30 aircraft. Identify the route and all four airlines.

Just shooting from the hip here, but could it have been Air New England between Hartford to Boston? I know they flew Twin Otters and those two cities would be good candidates for service from larger airlines such as 707 operators American and TWA and DC-9-30/727-200 operator Northeast - but wait! Didn't they merge with Delta a couple of years earlier? I think they did so I'm gonna go with Eastern as the DC-9/727 operator. My first ever flight aboard an L-1011 was on Eastern between EWR and BDL (1977) and I once flew a United DC-10 from BDL up to BOS (1984).

WHBM

Ah, the Bristol Freighter, alias the Bristol 170, the Wayfarer, and other names. It had considerable success in later life with various northern Canadian operators, who needed something bigger than Beaver/Otter sized aircraft, and was the first proper aircraft to land right at the North Pole (this flight was a Wardair one). These various Canadian northern operators bought and sold the aircraft among themselves as contracts came and went. Built in my home city of Bristol, later in its production run when the Bristol Britannia required all the main factory facility this was shifted down the road, to be assembled in a simplistic old wartime plant in the “holiday” (ha-ha) town of Weston-super-Mare. Despite which the good old 170 outsold the Britannia several times over - it was one of the most successful commercial aircraft the UK industry ever built.

Best remembered in the UK from the days before the car ferries from Britain to France got going, there were two sizeable operators of it, Channel Air Bridge (started by Freddie Laker) and Silver City Airways, who built up extraordinarily frequent services by the late 1950s for taking people with their cars across the English Channel to France. Two cars (later three with a stretched nose) in the front, and their passengers in the back. There was a published timetable but Silver City, in particular, just departed when the next three cars had turned up. The trip from Lydd, in the very south-east tip of England, to Le Touquet, facing it in France, is about 35 miles, they flew VFR, at 2,000 feet southbound and 4,000 feet northbound. Engine start to engine stop was about 20 minutes, and there are stories of crews doing 8 round trips or more a day on August Saturdays. I’ve flown myself into both Lydd and Le Touquet, nowadays just GA airfields, you can’t quite see one from the other across the sea, but as soon as you take off the opposite coast becomes visible on a good day.

I last saw one airborne in the mid 1990s, walking south down Regent Street in the middle of London, to my amazement the final airworthy one in the UK plodded in front of me on long finals for, of all places, Heathrow. It was used at the time for transporting racehorses. What a nuisance its 100 mph approach speed would have been for ATC ! It also took part in the Heathrow 50th anniversary flypast in 1996. Last one operating in the world was in Western Canada, with Hawkair of Terrace, BC, it lasted until some 10 years ago, then ended up in a museum.

Hmmm, er, does WHBM know about this ........ ?? !!

miniliq

I like Seat 2A's choice of the BOS-BDL route, and my 1/15/74 OAG shows service by Eastern with no less than three different aircraft -- DC-9, L-1011, and 727; it also has Delta (727), Allegheny (BAC-111), and TWA (Boeing 320), plus two commuter airlines flying the Twin Otters: Pilgrim and Executive Airlines.

But another possibility would be BOS-LGA, with service by DL (727-200), AA (727), and EA (DC-9, 727, L-1011), but the only commuter was Air New England, using a Beech 99.

So my final answer is BOS-JFK, with service by DL (727-200), AA (707), NA (727-200). (TWA also had a once a week flight with a 707). The commuter is Pilgrim with the Twin Otter service, but not non-stop -- either two or three stops.

And to jlemon -- LSU may not have pulled through, but the Saints finally got in the win column!

jlemon

The first four (4) questions all have a time line of April of 1981:

1) This airline provided the only nonstop service with one daily round trip between JFK and LAS. Name the air carrier and the equipment operated.

2) This air carrier operated the only nonstop service with one daily round trip between MEM and LAS. Identify the airline and the aircraft used.

3) This airline flew the only nonstop service between FAT and LAS with one daily round trip. Name the carrier and the equipment operated.

4) Also at this same time, there were no less than five (5) airlines operating nonstop jet service on the relatively short hop between RNO and LAS. Identify all five air carriers and the jet equipment they flew on the route.

5) This Canadian airline based in Saskatchewan operated jet equipment on their one and only route to the U.S. Name the airline, the jet aircraft type they operated and the one U.S. city they served.

6) This regional airline based in the northeast U.S. flew three (3) different jet aircraft types at different times during their existence in addition to flying turboprop equipment. Identify the air carrier and the three jet aircraft types they operated.

7) In April of 1974, this commuter airline operated DHC-6 "Twin Otter" turboprop service several times a day between two major airports in the northeast U.S. They had some interesting competition as well in the form of three major air carriers flying jet equipment on the very same route. Two of these carriers operated Boeing 707-320 service while the third carrier operated flights with Boeing 727-200 and Douglas DC-9-30 aircraft. Identify the route and all four airlines.

Thanks to miniliq and Seat 2A for their excellent responses!

Here are the answers with data for questions 1) through 4) being taken from the April 1, 1981 North American OAG:

1) TWA with daily L1011 service nonstop JFK-LAS. No nonstop flights operated by United listed.

2) United with daily B727-200 service nonstop MEM-LAS. No nonstop flights operated by Republic listed.

3) Republic with B727-200 service nonstop FAT-LAS.

4) The five air carriers flying nonstop from RNO to LAS were:

Air California with one (1) daily B737-200 flight,

Braniff International with four (4) daily B727-200 flights,

Delta with one (1) B727-200 flight that did not operate on Tues., Weds., or Thurs.,

Eastern with two (2) daily B727-100 flights and,

Republic with one (1) daily DC-9-10 flight and also one (1) B727-200 flight that operated daily except Weds. when the service was flown with a DC-9-30.

5) Norcanair and MSP with F28 service as previously and correctly answered by Wally Bird. And BTW, besides the turboprop equipment listed in my earlier response to this quiz item, it appears that NK also operated Convair 580 (ex-Frontier) as well as Convair 640 aircraft.

6) Well, I'm not sure if New York Air can be classified as a regional air carrier.....however, Business Express was a regional and flew Fokker F28 (which BizEx inherited when they acquired Pilgrim Airlines), British Aerospace BAe 146-200 and Avro RJ70 equipment during their existence. Yes, the BAe 146 and Avro RJ70 are quite similar but as they had different names, I believe they are separate aircraft types.....and as for turboprop equipment, Business Express operated Beechcraft B99 and B1900C, Fokker F27, Saab 340 and Shorts 360 aircraft.

7) The city pair in question is Hartford/Springfield (BDL) - New York JFK. Here are the four air carriers, which all flew nonstop from BDL to JFK:

American operating daily B707-320 (B3F) service as AA 59 from BDL to JFK.

Trans World Airlines operating daily except Weds. and Sun. B707-320 (B3F) service as TW 9 from BDL to JFK.

Delta operating two daily flights from BDL to JFK with B727-200 (DL 289) and DC-9-30 (DL 959) equipment.

Pilgrim Airlines with three daily DHC-6 "Twin Otter" flights from BDL to JFK (PM 329, 435 and 463).

jlemon

Thanks for your usual excellent response, WHBM, and delighted to hear from you once again!

And as for the comment concerning a trip to the U.K., well, we've talked about this but I do not believe anything definite has been cast in stone quite yet! However, this remains a superb idea....and I cannot think of a better way to use my BA "Avios", preferably in first class!

Seat 2A

The operative word here is may.

The idea for such a trip was brought up about a month ago and though no exact dates or plans were ever discussed, the response to the idea of a trip like this was enthusiastic, thus the word "may". That said, I hope it happens for those of you who can pull it off. No doubt you'll not only see some cool old aircraft but also learn a thing or two while you're at it.

Thanks to WHBM for the good info. on the Bristol 170. And here's a question for WHBM as well...

Over the years, the BAC-111 was well represented here in the U.S. Was there ever any interest in and/or marketing of the Trident in the US or Canada?

WHBM

As I thought. Mrs WHBM however had visions of a group weary from an overnight transatlantic flight suddenly hammering on our front door, suitcases in hand, early one morning ..... !

jlemon

Good Lord, no! Of course, we can be a jolly bunch of barbarians over here in the colonies, but with age comes some semblance of wisdom, so I believe you shall have ample warning before we descend upon the WHBM household.....

WHBM

Ah, here's another type I don't think we have covered so far. 'The Gripper'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Trident So called (semi) affectionately by those who came into contact with it in Britain because "it gripped the ground" at take-off. All the usual stereotypes about "only took off because of the curvature of the earth" came into play. Notwithstanding which, at altitude it was one of the fastest jetliners of its generation. One of the last ones I rode in, on departure from Manchester I was in the novel rearward-facing seat rows fitted in the forward part of the aircraft. On rotation and climbout, if it hadn't been for my seatbelt, such was the angle of climb I'm sure I would have ended up in the lap of the passenger facing me opposite, who just happened to be my chief customer of the time. Some 'Gripper' !

It worked through manufacturers from de Havilland, later Hawker Siddeley, and finally just made it into the British Aerospace era. Geoffrey de Havilland himself, who built his first aircraft in 1910 and had developed what was essentially a family-owned business until he sold out to Hawker in 1960 and retired (two of his three sons, who might have inherited the business, were killed as dH test pilots over the years) cast his 75-year old eyes over the designs, and gave it the go-ahead. A family business which had worked up to the world's first jet airliner, the Comet, where they designed it, built it, and built the jet engines themselves as well - Rolls Royce engines on the Comet 4 came much later. Note that the Comet never really was marketed in the USA either, part of why the Trident was never offered either, whereas the BAC One-Eleven had the Viscount's success to build on. There was a lot of indecision by BEA and a substantial downsizing of the aircraft, which is said to have killed almost all overseas interest in the Trident.

De Havilland talked with Boeing in the late 1950s about having the Trident manufactured under licence in the USA. Boeing seemed interested and executives made visits to each other, drawings were exchanged (which of course meant one way). Well, we all know what came next, don't we ? Boeing correctly identified the engines were too small, which Rolls-Royce were in no position to correct, whereas P&W were offering the JT8D. However, things like the S-duct for the centre engine, which DH had developed in their wind tunnel, were indeed a gift to the 727 design team. Maybe Geoffrey DH was getting a little old, tired, and too trusting. The rest is history.

Apart from BEA (inherited by British Airways) the other major purchasers were the Chinese, who bought about 40 of them. Beyond this, just penny numbers were sold elsewhere. We covered the bizarre Channel Airways purchase upthread.

The Trident pioneered Autoland for commercial aircraft, driven in no small part by the desire to maintain service reliability through London autumn fogs (like this evening as I write, by the way). Hawker Siddeley (and BEA) spent years getting it right, and succeeded completely. On completion of this development, though, they offered the design team little future prospects. At the time Lockheed were designing the Tristar, and a number of the Autoland team were enticed away to Burbank to work on that. Word is that the Tristar, despite 1970s analogue technology, had the best Autoland ever fitted to any airliner before or since. Guess where the team had learned their trade.

John Cunningham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cu...m_(RAF_officer) was de Havilland (and its successors) test pilot from 1938 to 1978. He led all the development flying of the Trident, of course. I met him by chance at the 2001 Biggin Hill airshow, one of the major annual show events in the UK, which he had come to open, and was later standing around looking a bit lost, and glad to have a chat. Fascinating chap. One of the pleasures of the DH test pilot team was delivering new aircraft, and John, being the senior, devised the roster; over the years he delivered most of the Chinese aircraft personally and had great fun doing so. The factory at Hatfield, north of London, where all the Tridents were built was demolished, and a housing project built there in recent years. Main street through it is, fittingly, Cunningham Avenue.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Cunn...220.09,,0,5.41

Seat 2A

Thanks for the nicely detailed answer, WHBM! ^^

Seat 2A

Here are answers to some of my unanswered questions from a couple of weeks ago. Happy contrails, all ===========>

5. This airline’s Hawaiian flights featured food and drinks from Don The Beachcomber restaurants. Continental

18. What was the first airline in the world to board one million passengers in one city in one month? See if you can figure out which city as well. Delta out of Atlanta in August 1979


The following three questions are taken from the March 1966 International OAG:

6. What foreign airline served Philadelphia in 1966? Where did it fly to? Lufthansa PHL-BOS-FRA

8. Name the airline and aircraft that offered nonstop service between Madrid and Miami Aeromexico DC-8-50

9. Aside from Canada, what foreign cities could you fly nonstop to from Seattle? Aboard which airlines? Pan Am to London, Northwest to Tokyo ~ both using Boeing 707s


11. In 1963, this U.S. airline embarked on a side adventure into South America, sending a contingent of its younger executives down to Bolivia to assist the beleaguered national airline, Lloyd Aereo Boliviano. The two year U.S. government assisted contract was designed to help turn around the troubled carrier and would bring in $800,000 for this airline. Which airline was this? North Central

18. One of this airline’s aircraft bore a livery advertising the Stardust Resort and Casino in Las Vegas. Name the airline and the type of aircraft so liveried.
Western Pacific 737-300

21. MGM Grand Air and Regent Air were famous for operating luxuriously appointed 727s between Los Angeles, Las Vegas and New York. Name two other U.S. airlines that offered scheduled flights aboard all-First Class configured 727-100s. Air One and McClain Airlines

23. What airline’s service between New York and Chicago was once branded “Blue Chip” service? TWA

24. This short lived airline operated a single DC-8 (and possibly a Convair 880 later on) during 1973/74. It was operated as an air travel club, wherein after paying an initial $25 membership fee, members could fly from Newark, N.J., to Los Angeles for $87.00. It also operated along other routes including flights to Europe. The atmosphere on board its jet was said to be similar to that of a tribal celebration. Vegetarian meals, organic breads, homemade soups, cheeses, and wines and beers were served. Pong machines, backgammon and chess boards, and giant denim pillows were strewn about the plane, which had no class sections. What “airline” are we talking about?
Freelandia


BONUS: Which of these airlines never offered a First Class cabin? (The may be more than one…)

Jet America
New York Air
People Express
Ozark
North Central
Trans-Texas
Frontier
Air Florida
Southern

WHBM

OK, a different question style.

Here are Google Maps photographs of two locations in London. Bearing in mind the title of this thread, can the team identify their relevance to it.

No 1

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=200+...4.48,,0,-14.59

and No 2

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=193+...74.86,,0,-15.6

miniliq

When I lived in London 1978-81, our office was just a few blocks away off Berkeley Street -- so I wracked my brain trying to remember the landmarks -- trying to think of airline offices, aviation museums, crash sites -- but could only remember tea at Fortnum and Mason -- not exactly relevant to your question!

Then I took a different tack and did some research -- very clever idea, WHBM -- it's not the location -- it's the name of a KLM Airbus A330-200, registration PH-AOL, named Piccadilly Circus London. Lots of photos of it on the airliner websites - here's one http://www.airteamimages.com/airbus-...nes_63537.html

Well done! -- I'll let someone else tackle the second puzzle.