what to do when airline warned me about numerous throw-away ticketing? ($95 vs $497)
Sep 17, 2014, 6:31 pm
#676
Join Date: Jan 2007
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There is no cost associated with each airline seat. It costs so much to fly a plane, if its full or half full airline's cost is still almost the same. So, they sell it at the maximum they can. If there is no competition on a route they will sell it for maximum people will pay, if there is competition they will sell it for a price comparable with competition. You can buy a product in a cheap market (A-B-C flight $69) and use it in a market with no competition (A-B flight $469). Its like buying a hotel room in Holiday Inn in Las vegas and using it in Holiday Inn in Manhattan. Who cares they are very similar rooms with very similar service. Right? Wrong, market dictates the price. The problem with airlines is enforcement. Might not be worth enforcing it if hand full of people does it. If it spreads out, they will find a way to stop it. Like taking a deposit on the fares with a stop similar to a deposit car rental companies are taking.
Sep 17, 2014, 6:34 pm
#677
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On another side I really don't feel its unethical to buy such fare and fly only half of it. You did not promise to fly to the final destination and you did not promise to fly at all when you bought your ticket. So, airlines might be right (for their profits) in trying to eliminate it, but I don't see anything unethical about it. I might be wrong.
Sep 17, 2014, 6:51 pm
#678
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
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I recently encountered the opposite situation with a National car rental out of Las Vegas. When I booked Day 1 separately from Days 2+3, the daily rate was low for both reservations. If I priced Days 1+2+3 the daily rate increased by $10. I thought that was silly so I phoned National.
They couldn't do anything about it. So I returned the car and re-rented it on Day 2. It was a waste of time by their staff and me, but I was only 2 miles from the airport. Maybe their rate setters for Vegas were gambling (get it?) that I would be farther away.
Situations where separate tickets from A-B and B-C are cheaper than one A-C ticket are rare, but they do occur. Especially when the low fares are due only to competitive price matching. Unlike hidden city travel, buying separate tickets is universally accepted as legitimate.
They couldn't do anything about it. So I returned the car and re-rented it on Day 2. It was a waste of time by their staff and me, but I was only 2 miles from the airport. Maybe their rate setters for Vegas were gambling (get it?) that I would be farther away.
Situations where separate tickets from A-B and B-C are cheaper than one A-C ticket are rare, but they do occur. Especially when the low fares are due only to competitive price matching. Unlike hidden city travel, buying separate tickets is universally accepted as legitimate.
Sep 17, 2014, 6:54 pm
#679
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I hate that logic too, and when I fly international it can amount to many hundreds of dollars. (Admittedly I've never done it, instead I focus my energy on researching the best integrated multiple-airline or "hacker" fare instead.)
However I think I managed to come up with an analogy that does explain the airlines` perspective: I am a professional photographer, and my daily rate's "list price" is $600. Sometimes I get that rate, sometimes not. Let's say I had a slow month and gave a client a great deal - $300/day - and he prepaid but never showed up. That's fair since he paid... but if he does it 10 times in a row, at some point I'd start wondering if I'm losing revenue and my ability to book higher-paying gigs because of that behavior.
Really, any service or rental analogy would be better than logs of wood since we "rent" that seat and time on the plane, we don't take the seat home (especially with Y chairs, who would want those).
To clarify, I still think the airlines fare system doesn't make sense. For most of us any ticket is always a "promotion" so the logic where more product correlates with a higher price has been long lost. Even renting a 2BR is way cheaper per bedroom than a 1BR, but it's still more than a 1BR rental overall. The market doesn't allow otherwise.
However I think I managed to come up with an analogy that does explain the airlines` perspective: I am a professional photographer, and my daily rate's "list price" is $600. Sometimes I get that rate, sometimes not. Let's say I had a slow month and gave a client a great deal - $300/day - and he prepaid but never showed up. That's fair since he paid... but if he does it 10 times in a row, at some point I'd start wondering if I'm losing revenue and my ability to book higher-paying gigs because of that behavior.
Really, any service or rental analogy would be better than logs of wood since we "rent" that seat and time on the plane, we don't take the seat home (especially with Y chairs, who would want those).
To clarify, I still think the airlines fare system doesn't make sense. For most of us any ticket is always a "promotion" so the logic where more product correlates with a higher price has been long lost. Even renting a 2BR is way cheaper per bedroom than a 1BR, but it's still more than a 1BR rental overall. The market doesn't allow otherwise.
Sep 17, 2014, 6:57 pm
#680
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I recently encountered the opposite situation with a National car rental out of Las Vegas. When I booked Day 1 separately from Days 2+3, the daily rate was low for both reservations. If I priced Days 1+2+3 the daily rate increased by $10. I thought that was silly so I phoned National.
They couldn't do anything about it. So I returned the car and re-rented it on Day 2. It was a waste of time by their staff and me, but I was only 2 miles from the airport. Maybe their rate setters for Vegas were gambling (get it?) that I would be farther away.
Situations where separate tickets from A-B and B-C are cheaper than one A-C ticket are rare, but they do occur. Especially when the low fares are due only to competitive price matching. Unlike hidden city travel, buying separate tickets is universally accepted as legitimate.
They couldn't do anything about it. So I returned the car and re-rented it on Day 2. It was a waste of time by their staff and me, but I was only 2 miles from the airport. Maybe their rate setters for Vegas were gambling (get it?) that I would be farther away.
Situations where separate tickets from A-B and B-C are cheaper than one A-C ticket are rare, but they do occur. Especially when the low fares are due only to competitive price matching. Unlike hidden city travel, buying separate tickets is universally accepted as legitimate.
Sep 18, 2014, 7:37 am
#681
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Boston environs
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Situations where separate tickets from A-B and B-C are cheaper than one A-C ticket are rare, but they do occur. Especially when the low fares are due only to competitive price matching. Unlike hidden city travel, buying separate tickets is universally accepted as legitimate.
Sep 18, 2014, 8:33 am
#682
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Southwest is happy to check your luggage all the way through on request. I'm surprised other airlines would refuse, since it should save them money to avoid re-checking.
Sep 18, 2014, 8:43 am
#684
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Sep 18, 2014, 9:38 am
#685
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On another side I really don't feel its unethical to buy such fare and fly only half of it. You did not promise to fly to the final destination and you did not promise to fly at all when you bought your ticket. So, airlines might be right (for their profits) in trying to eliminate it, but I don't see anything unethical about it. I might be wrong.
Sep 18, 2014, 10:07 am
#686
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View it this way, they have a price for a flight. They give you a discount if you accept a specific route. You accept, then you renege.
Yes, that's an ethics issue.
Sep 18, 2014, 10:09 am
#687
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On another side I really don't feel its unethical to buy such fare and fly only half of it. You did not promise to fly to the final destination and you did not promise to fly at all when you bought your ticket. So, airlines might be right (for their profits) in trying to eliminate it, but I don't see anything unethical about it. I might be wrong.
Sep 18, 2014, 10:11 am
#688
Join Date: May 2009
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On another side I really don't feel its unethical to buy such fare and fly only half of it. You did not promise to fly to the final destination and you did not promise to fly at all when you bought your ticket. So, airlines might be right (for their profits) in trying to eliminate it, but I don't see anything unethical about it. I might be wrong.
The contract of carriage doesn't impose any penalty for not even beginning your trip (aside from any inherent penalty such as losing any non-refundable ticket costs, paying change fees, etc).
Whereas the contract of carriage will typically stipulate that you're agreeing to penalties or remedies if you engage in throwaway or hidden city ticketing. As channa noted, by purchasing the ticket you're entering into that contract and agreeing to be bound by those terms. So you are breaking your contractual promise by doing either of those things.
Sep 18, 2014, 10:24 am
#689
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^^ And keep in mind that there are reasons for this kind of fare structure. Plane loading, incentives, trying to fill seats on unpopular routes, etc.
View it this way, they have a price for a flight. They give you a discount if you accept a specific route. You accept, then you renege.
View it this way, they have a price for a flight. They give you a discount if you accept a specific route. You accept, then you renege.
The only reason airlines do this is because they set fares by market and there is no regulation on the matter.
I believe the EU ruled that hidden city ticketing cannot be enforced. If we had something like that, it would put the ethics debate to bed.
Sep 18, 2014, 10:45 am
#690
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It's price discrimination: charging more for what is worth more, regardless of cost. That's an accepted business practice everywhere, older than discount matinee showings at the movie theater.
Imagine a store selling T-shirts. White ones cost the most. Lime green ones are the cheapest. If you buy a lime green shirt they hand you a white shirt and a packet of lime green dye which you have to promise to use to dye the shirt.
Is price decoupled from cost? Yes. Is this a silly way to sell shirts? Yes. Are you breaking your agreement if don't use the dye and keep the white shirt at the lower price? Yes.
These are the 3 questions addressed here. Some people conflate them inadvertently; others do so intentionally.