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Old Nov 11, 2014, 2:41 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Xyzzy
Where does the KVS tool get its data and is KVS authorized to provide this data in the manner it is presented?

The tool is known to access a variety of web sites, many in a manner that is not authorized. Please see the next section of this Wiki for a list of sites believed to be accessed and their data access policies (where known).

Additionally, under some conditions the tool appears to access sites via a KVS-operated back end. This means that the tool is not just a 'web browser' that runs via a user's machine. No detailed public information is available about how this works or whether any of this back-end access is authorized.

Websites KVS Accesses and their relevant Terms of Use

http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...verrideServlet
http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...PreviewServlet
https://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConli...verrideServlet
https://www.aircanada.com
Terms of Use:
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/legal/notice.html
Use of our web site for any other purpose, including any commercial use or purpose, is expressly prohibited.
Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, you agree that, in using or accessing our website, you shall not commit or participate in any of the following acts or actions, each of which is expressly prohibited under this User Agreement:
directly or indirectly, use or access, or encourage, solicit, permit, facilitate, aid, assist or abet, including, but not limited to, the selling, licensing, distribution or provision to any person of any means that permit, the use or access, or agree to provide the use or access, of our website through any manual process or any automatic, electronic or technical device, including but not limited to automated scripts, robots, crawls, screen scrapers, web "bots", deep-links, indexes, spiders, click-spams, macro programs, or any other device, program, software, system, algorithm, methodology or technology, now known or hereinafter discovered, that performs the same or a similar function, in order to, without limitation: "data mine"; "screen scrape"; data process; access, extract, copy, distribute, aggregate or acquire information; generate impressions or clicks; input or store information; search or generate searches; or manipulate or monitor any portion or content of our website;

http://data.flight24.com/flights/
Terms of Use:
http://www.flightradar24.com/terms-and-conditions
Websites information and Services are provided for personal, non-commercial use only. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) on Flightradar24s web site for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:

Modify or copy the materials;
Use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public display (commercial or non-commercial);
Attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained on Flightradar24's web site;
Remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the materials; or
Transfer the materials to another person or "mirror" the materials on any other server.

This license shall automatically terminate if you violate any of these restrictions and may be terminated by Flightradar24 at any time. Upon terminating your viewing of these materials or upon the termination of this license, you must destroy any downloaded materials in your possession whether in electronic or printed format.

http://data.seatexpert.com/tpi/find.php
Terms of Use:

http://plane.lan.com/cgi-bin/recibo_...bo_eticket.cgi
Terms of Use:
http://www.lan.com/en_us/sitio_perso...-use/about-us/
You may use the information on our site solely for non-commercial purposes, and any use or modification of the website contents is not permitted.

http://reservations.usairways.com/Default.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://reservations.usairways.com/en-US/aboutus/site_usage_policy.html
Content may be used for non-commercial personal use only, and you agree not to modify, copy, transmit, distribute, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, sell or otherwise transfer any information, software, products or services obtained from the Site without prior written permission from US Airways. You agree not to use any automatic device, manual process, or scraping to monitor or copy the Site or the content contained therein for any purpose without US Airways prior written permission. You agree not to use any device, software or routine to interfere with or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site.

https://book.austrian.com/app/fb.fly
Terms of Use:
http://www.austrian.com/Info/LegalRegulations/WebsiteTerms.aspx?sc_lang=en&cc=AT
2. Proprietary rights
All trademark rights, copyrights, database rights and other intellectual property rights to the contents of the Austrian-website, (as well as the organization and layout of the website), together with the underlying software code rest, either with Austrian or with its licensors. You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Austrian-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Austrian.

3. Permissible use
All Austrian-website online services (including the booking machine) are provided solely for the purpose of enabling you to check the availability of goods or services relating to your journey (the timetable, for example), make legitimate reservations, use our online check-in or transact other business with suppliers. You may only use the website in accordance with these terms and conditions and for the legally permitted purposes described above. In particular, you indicate your agreement to the following:
...
3.5 You may not reproduce information from the Austrian-website for commercial purposes. This also includes providing prices for Austrian flights on another website or another online server. In particular you may not copy, distribute, in other way use or reproduce discarded content from the Austrian-website with the help of 'robots', other search machine technologies or through other automatic mechanisms.

https://booking.qatarairways.com/qri...Booking.action
Terms of Use:

https://book.tam.com.br/TAM/dyn/air/...ng/retrievePNR
Terms of Use:

https://classic.checkmytrip.com/plne...ievePNR.action
Terms of Use:
(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

https://en.aegeanair.com
Terms of Use:

https://eservice.evaair.com
Terms of Use:

https://flymas.mobi/itravel/viewBooking.xhtml
Terms of Use:

https://fly.rj.com/MyBookings/Home/EN/Default.aspx
Terms of Use:

http://skyvector.com/airport/
Terms of Use:

https://m.aeroflot.ru/b/info/pnr/load
Terms of Use:

https://mm.alitalia.com/GB_EN/booking/apvsearch.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://mobile1.emirates.com/myb/review.xhtml
Terms of Use:

https://myb.s7.ru/getMyBooking.action
Terms of Use:

https://mytripandmore.com/Itinerary.aspx
Terms of Use:
https://mytripandmore.com/TermsAndConditions.aspx
Except as expressly permitted by these Terms, you may not:
...
9. use any "robot", "spider" or other automatic device, software, program, algorithm, routine, methodology, or any manual process or functionality:
...to monitor, assemble, analyse, index, copy, transmit, distribute, transfer, or link to any of the pages, data, materials, or content available on the Site,

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWe...yICAOAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://prefunds.aa.com/refunds/receipt
https://www.aa.com/reservation/findReservationSubmit.do
Terms of Use:
https://www.aa.com/i18n/footer/siteUsage.jsp
Intellectual property notifications
...
D. American Airlines owns or uses by permission all software contained on the Site, including without limitation all HTML code and Active X controls. Copyright and other laws and international treaty provisions protect this software. The law expressly prohibits any modification, redistribution, or reproduction of the software, and such actions could result in severe civil and criminal penalties. American Airlines will seek and support prosecuting violators to the maximum extent possible.
E. You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of the Site for public or commercial purposes. Nothing on the Site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.
...
Limitations on your use:
You agree that you will not Misuse the Site. "Misuse" includes, but is not limited to, using the Site to do any of the following:
...
L. Copy or create derivative works from, display, distribute, license, perform, publish, recreate, reproduce, sell, transfer, or transmit any information, products, services, or software obtained by, from, or through the Site.
M. Monitor or copy any Content by using any manual process, or any robot, spider, or other automatic device, without first obtaining American Airlines' prior written consent.

https://raw.github.com/opentraveldat...i_airlines.csv
Terms of Use:

https://secure.jetairways.com/PlatformID/Identify.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://tickets.airtran.com/SeatAvailability.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://www.southwest.com/html/about-...ons/index.html
Prohibited Activities

You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of this site for public or commercial purposes without our express written permission. Nothing on this site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.

You may not modify, re-render, frame, mirror, truncate, add to, inject, filter or change the order of the information contained on any page of the Southwest Airlines sites, including, without limitation, by any way of reproducing Southwest Airlines or SWABiz web pages or Company information on any other web site without our express written permission.

You may not copy, derive, edit, translate, decompile, reverse engineer, modify, use, or reproduce any code or source relating to our sites, including without limitation, any service or product Southwest offers.

You may not cause to appear any pop-up, pop-under, exit windows, expanding buttons, banners advertisement, or anything else which minimizes, covers, or otherwise inhibits the full display of the Southwest Airlines sites.

You may not use any deep-link, page-scrape, robot, crawl, index, spider, click spam, macro programs, Internet agent, or other automatic device, program, algorithm or methodology which does the same things, to use, access, copy, acquire information, generate impressions or clicks, input information, store information, search, generate searches, or monitor any portion of the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information.
...
You may not disguise the origin of information transmitted to, from, or through the Southwest Airlines sites. You may not circumvent any measures implemented by Southwest Airlines aimed at preventing violations of the Use Agreement. You may not violate the restrictions in any robot exclusion header.

When you use the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information for an authorized purpose, you must include all proprietary notices without changing, hiding or deleting them.

You may not engage in any conduct that is, or that Southwest Airlines deems to be, in violation of this Use Agreement.

https://wftc3.e-travel.com
Terms of Use:

https://wtrweb.worldtracer.aero/WorldTracerWeb/pax.do
Terms of Use:

https://www121.jal.co.jp/JmbWeb/JR/S...MileCalc_en.do
Terms of Use:

https://www4.thy.com/mybookings/ETDisplay.tk
https://www4.thy.com/mybookings/getPnr.tk
Terms of Use:

https://www.airberlin.com/en-DE/cockpit
Terms of Use:

https://www.airfrance.fr/cgi-bin/AF/...chPnrAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.alaskaair.com/booking/reservationlookup
Terms of Use:

https://www.bookonline.saudiairlines...verride.action
https://www.bookonline.saudiairlines...verride.action
Terms of Use:

https://www.britishairways.com/trave...g/public/en_gb
Terms of Use:

https://www.checkmytrip.com/CMTSERVLET
Terms of Use:
https://www.checkmytrip.com/cmt/apf/...&SITE=NCMTNCMT
3. Licence restrictions

3.1 Except as expressly set out in this EULA or as permitted by any local law, you agree:
...
(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

https://www.delta.com/mytrips/findPnr.action
http://www.delta.com/ism/SeatMapDisplay.action
http://www.delta.com/shared/components/blank.jsp
Terms of Use:

https://www.finnair.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.flysas.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.iberia.com/web/retrievePNR.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.lot.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.lufthansa.com
Terms of Use:
http://www.lufthansa.com/online/port...d=2016866&l=en

2. Proprietary rights
...You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Lufthansa-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Deutsche Lufthansa AG.
https://www.routehappy.com/
Terms of Use:

https://www.swiss.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripforyou.net/t4u/PTopAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripple.jp
Terms of Use:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...n/default.aspx
Terms of Use:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/legal.aspx This website is for the User's personal, noncommercial use only. User agrees not to modify, copy, alter, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from this website without Uniteds prior written permission. User agrees not to use any robot, spider, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor or copy this website or the content contained therein or for any other unauthorized purpose without Uniteds prior written permission. ... United reserves the right to investigate any illegal and/or unauthorized use of this website, including, but not limited to, unauthorized framing of this website or unauthorized use of any robot, spider or other automated device, and to take appropriate legal action, including, without limitation, civil, criminal and injunctive redress.

https://www.viewtrip.com/GetItin.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://www.virginamerica.com/book/ow/a1/
Terms of Use:

https://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/g...ndBooking.next
Terms of Use:

https://www.virtuallythere.com/new/reservations.html
Terms of Use:

http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/
Terms of Use:

http://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi
Terms of Use:

http://www.airframes.org/fleet/
Terms of Use:

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...oking-now.html
Terms of Use:

http://www.flightradar24.com/
Terms of Use:

http://www.FlightStats.com/go/Flight...ingByFlight.do
http://www.FlightStats.com/go/Flight...tusByFlight.do
Terms of Use:

http://www.flightview.com/TravelTool...eryResults.asp
http://www.flightview.com/TravelTools/viewairport.asp
Terms of Use:

http://www.gcmap.com/airport/
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui
Terms of Use:
http://www.gcmap.com/faq/using
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps on my web page?
A: You may use maps generated by the Great Circle Mapper on non-commercial web pages (q.v. commericial use below) so long as you do not profit from them and you include the following credit on pages which include maps:
...
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps for commercial sites or publications?
A: Please write to Karl L. Swartz regarding terms for commercial use of the maps.

http://www.iata.org/about/members/Pa...line-list.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://www.iata.org/Pages/terms.aspx
2. Your Conduct

The content on this Site is for your personal use only within the organization or entity to which you are attached as applicable, and it is not intended for commercial exploitation unless expressly agreed in writing by IATA through a duly authorized representative. IATA authorizes you to download or reproduce selected materials at this Site only for your personal, non-commercial use, in the ordinary course of business provided that you retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained in the original materials on any copies of the materials and that the title or database brand name and IATA name is stated as the source.

You may not otherwise modify, disassemble, create derivative works, distribute, reproduce, publicly display, perform, transmit, re-transmit, sell, rent, sublicense, or otherwise use any materials or content on this Site for commercial or non-commercial exploitation by yourself or the organization or entity to which you are attached or permit third parties to so do. Without limitation, unlimited or wholesale reproduction, copying of the content for commercial or non-commercial purposes and unwarranted modification of data and information within the content is not permitted, and any use of these materials on any other website or networked computer environment for any purpose without IATAs prior written consent is prohibited.
...
4. Intellectual Property Rights

...You must not modify, decompile, or reverse engineer any software IATA discloses to you via this Site, and you must not remove, overprint, or deface any notice of copyright, trademark, logo, legend, or other notice of ownership from any originals or copies of software or information from the website. "IATA Trademarks" means all names, marks, brands, URL names or addresses, logos, designs, trade dress and other designations IATA uses in connection with Products or Services. You are not permitted to incorporate any IATA Trademarks into any other trademarks, service marks, company names, Internet addresses, domain names, or any other similar designations. Any unauthorized use of any materials contained on this website may violate copyright laws, trademark laws, the laws of privacy and publicity, and communications regulations and statutes.

http://www.itn.net/cgi/get
Terms of Use:

http://www.kenya-airways.com/kqbook.aspx
Terms of Use:

http://www.myairlines.ru
Terms of Use:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/do/dyn/checkmytrip
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatexpert.com/multiple_results.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatguru.com/ajax/findseatmap.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatmaestro.com/airlines-...eckmytrip.html
http://www.seatmaestro.com/themes/de...te_airline.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/Airline
http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/airports-and-city
http://www.seatplans.com/find-and-compare/
Terms of Use:
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KVS Availability Tool

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Old Oct 22, 2010 | 2:43 pm
  #3661  
KVS
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Originally Posted by aster
Just to reiterate, I'll looking at purchasing a ticket on say the AMS-SIN-SYD route but before I pay for it $$$ I want to make sure that they will give me a saver upgrade on this entire route.

Will the tool help me with that?
Yes:

[KVS Availability Tool 5.8.9902/Diamond - KrisCom: Awards/SQ/All]
Code:
AMS  Amsterdam-Schiphol NL [EHAM]
SYD  Sydney Kingsford Smith NS AU [YSSY]
TUE  01 Feb 2011 | 1 Seat

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ------------------------
SQ         323     AMS   10:40     SIN   06:05 +1  772      CS+ CM+ CA+  YS+ YM+ YA+
 -> SQ     241     SIN   07:00 +1  SYD   17:40 +1  772      CS@ CM+ CA+  YS+ YM+ YA+
SQ         323     AMS   10:40     SIN   06:05 +1  772      CS+ CM+ CA+  YS+ YM+ YA+
 -> SQ     211     SIN   09:40 +1  SYD   20:20 +1  772      CS+ CM+ CA+  YS+ YM+ YA+
SQ         323     AMS   10:40     SIN   06:05 +1  772      CS+ CM+ CA+  YS+ YM+ YA+
 -> SQ     221     SIN   20:35 +1  SYD   07:25 +2  388      CS- CM+ CA+  YS+ YM+ YA+
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Old Oct 25, 2010 | 5:31 pm
  #3662  
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Posts: 659
Amadeus award availability issue

Fixed with upgrade to newest version!

Last edited by goheelswks; Oct 25, 2010 at 5:52 pm
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Old Oct 25, 2010 | 9:03 pm
  #3663  
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Originally Posted by KVS
All KVS Tool systems continue to function normally.

Please see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Errors for assistance in troubleshooting your local machine issues.
Doesn't help if you can't access that site.

For some odd reason, and it may happen for about 30 minutes every other day, I can't reach kvstool.com. That means I can't use KVSTool (name not resolved error) nor access the website.

It appears to be an issue on my ISP's side, but it's frustrating.
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Old Oct 26, 2010 | 5:34 am
  #3664  
40 Countries Visited
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gran Canaria, Singapore, Surfers Paradise
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold to Silver to Blue, Finnair Silver, Royal Caribbean Diamond, GHA Platinum
Posts: 5,500
KVS, any chance you guys will make a Mac version (that doesn't require the use of a PC emulator)?
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Old Oct 26, 2010 | 8:20 am
  #3665  
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, FB Plat
Posts: 396
New Question - Award Availability

Hi KVS,

Trying to book a *A award in C from LHR to FRA on 29/12/2010 for 2 pax. KVS Tool tells me this:

[KVS Availability Tool 5.8.0/Platinum - SNT: Awards/StarAlliance/JP-ANA-SP1]
Code:
LHR  London Heathrow UK [EGLL]
FRA  Frankfurt Metro / Frankfurt Intl DE = FRA HHN [EDDF]
WED  29 Dec 2010 | 2 Seats

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  -------------
LH         921     LHR   06:20     FRA   08:55     319  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
LH         923     LHR   07:05     FRA   09:40     320  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
LH         903     LHR   09:50     FRA   12:25     321  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
LH         905     LHR   11:45     FRA   14:15     321  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
LH         907     LHR   13:55     FRA   16:25     320  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
LH         911     LHR   17:05     FRA   19:35     321  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
LH         917     LHR   19:00     FRA   21:30     733  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
LH         919     LHR   19:45     FRA   22:15     320  0   FS/  CS+  YS+
BD redemption tells me that there are no seats available until 1705 on that day. Who's right?

Thanks,

mattk
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Old Oct 26, 2010 | 10:22 pm
  #3666  
KVS
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by pseudoswede
It appears to be an issue on my ISP's side, but it's frustrating.
If your ISP's DNS servers are causing issues, you can try using one of the publicly-available DNS servers.
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Old Oct 26, 2010 | 10:24 pm
  #3667  
KVS
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Originally Posted by mattk
Hi KVS,

Trying to book a *A award in C from LHR to FRA on 29/12/2010 for 2 pax. KVS Tool tells me this:

BD redemption tells me that there are no seats available until 1705 on that day. Who's right?
You just need to keep calling back, until you get a competent agent...
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Old Oct 26, 2010 | 10:30 pm
  #3668  
KVS
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,952
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Originally Posted by aster
KVS, any chance you guys will make a Mac version (that doesn't require the use of a PC emulator)?
While a native Mac application is currently not technologically feasible, we continue to do our best to accommodate Apple users, as described at http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Compatibility.

In addition, the KVS Tool Mobile Companion is now available an iPhone/iPad Web App: http://www.KVSTool.com/Mobile-Companion-Info.php
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Old Oct 27, 2010 | 7:10 am
  #3669  
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Posts: 396
Originally Posted by KVS
You just need to keep calling back, until you get a competent agent...
Turns out you do need a compentent agent but in this case both the tool and BD were correct...

Background is I have an existing redemption for which I need to change the first sector. Checking KVS showed me there was availability to do this.

First time out I phoned BD and gave them the existing booking references before asking for availability on the flight I wanted. They said there was none despite the tool saying there was and wouldn't listen any further.

This morning I called them again but this time I didn't give them the booking reference but instead went through it as though it was a new redemption. The result was there is availability. However when they loaded in my existing booking reference the availability disappeared. After discussing this with them at length and being on hold for 10 minutes they accepted there was a problem with the booking engine and they're now looking into it with the carrier directly. No resolution yet but hopefully I'm getting there.

Last edited by mattk; Oct 27, 2010 at 7:23 am
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Old Oct 27, 2010 | 8:24 am
  #3670  
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Originally Posted by mattk
Turns out you do need a compentent agent but in this case both the tool and BD were correct...

Background is I have an existing redemption for which I need to change the first sector. Checking KVS showed me there was availability to do this.

First time out I phoned BD and gave them the existing booking references before asking for availability on the flight I wanted. They said there was none despite the tool saying there was and wouldn't listen any further.

This morning I called them again but this time I didn't give them the booking reference but instead went through it as though it was a new redemption. The result was there is availability. However when they loaded in my existing booking reference the availability disappeared. After discussing this with them at length and being on hold for 10 minutes they accepted there was a problem with the booking engine and they're now looking into it with the carrier directly. No resolution yet but hopefully I'm getting there.
BD explained that as the sectors are married together they're unable to change the first sector. Odd and frustrating.
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Old Oct 30, 2010 | 3:27 pm
  #3671  
 
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Posts: 1,071
Originally Posted by aster
KVS, any chance you guys will make a Mac version (that doesn't require the use of a PC emulator)?
++++1!!!!^
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Old Oct 31, 2010 | 3:21 am
  #3672  
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Posts: 5,500
I tried these instructions on my iPad and it worked: http://www.kvstool.com/Mobile-Companion-Info.php ^

You can log in and use the tool this way.
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Old Nov 1, 2010 | 1:30 am
  #3673  
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KVS are you going to bring back some more methods to check availability as Sabre is too slow for me. It must download more then 1Mb to show availability. Thats fine most of the time but sometimes I am on a mobile connection so it can take ages to just check one date.
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Old Nov 1, 2010 | 3:14 am
  #3674  
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Originally Posted by lallyr
KVS are you going to bring back some more methods to check availability as Sabre is too slow for me. It must download more then 1Mb to show availability. Thats fine most of the time but sometimes I am on a mobile connection so it can take ages to just check one date.
While the Sabre/GTC method is slow for the first pull, subsequent queries seem to be much faster.

Meanwhile, Sabre/FS does work much more quickly from the get go in my experience.
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Old Nov 1, 2010 | 3:55 am
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Originally Posted by gleff
While the Sabre/GTC method is slow for the first pull, subsequent queries seem to be much faster.

Meanwhile, Sabre/FS does work much more quickly from the get go in my experience.
Did a quick search and took 1m50 secs and second search took 1min 30 secs.

You could be right but too long IMHO.
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