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Old Nov 11, 2014, 2:41 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Xyzzy
Where does the KVS tool get its data and is KVS authorized to provide this data in the manner it is presented?

The tool is known to access a variety of web sites, many in a manner that is not authorized. Please see the next section of this Wiki for a list of sites believed to be accessed and their data access policies (where known).

Additionally, under some conditions the tool appears to access sites via a KVS-operated back end. This means that the tool is not just a 'web browser' that runs via a user's machine. No detailed public information is available about how this works or whether any of this back-end access is authorized.

Websites KVS Accesses and their relevant Terms of Use

http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...verrideServlet
http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...PreviewServlet
https://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConli...verrideServlet
https://www.aircanada.com
Terms of Use:
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/legal/notice.html
Use of our web site for any other purpose, including any commercial use or purpose, is expressly prohibited.
Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, you agree that, in using or accessing our website, you shall not commit or participate in any of the following acts or actions, each of which is expressly prohibited under this User Agreement:
directly or indirectly, use or access, or encourage, solicit, permit, facilitate, aid, assist or abet, including, but not limited to, the selling, licensing, distribution or provision to any person of any means that permit, the use or access, or agree to provide the use or access, of our website through any manual process or any automatic, electronic or technical device, including but not limited to automated scripts, robots, crawls, screen scrapers, web "bots", deep-links, indexes, spiders, click-spams, macro programs, or any other device, program, software, system, algorithm, methodology or technology, now known or hereinafter discovered, that performs the same or a similar function, in order to, without limitation: "data mine"; "screen scrape"; data process; access, extract, copy, distribute, aggregate or acquire information; generate impressions or clicks; input or store information; search or generate searches; or manipulate or monitor any portion or content of our website;

http://data.flight24.com/flights/
Terms of Use:
http://www.flightradar24.com/terms-and-conditions
Website’s information and Services are provided for personal, non-commercial use only. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) on Flightradar24’s web site for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:

Modify or copy the materials;
Use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public display (commercial or non-commercial);
Attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained on Flightradar24's web site;
Remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the materials; or
Transfer the materials to another person or "mirror" the materials on any other server.

This license shall automatically terminate if you violate any of these restrictions and may be terminated by Flightradar24 at any time. Upon terminating your viewing of these materials or upon the termination of this license, you must destroy any downloaded materials in your possession whether in electronic or printed format.

http://data.seatexpert.com/tpi/find.php
Terms of Use:

http://plane.lan.com/cgi-bin/recibo_...bo_eticket.cgi
Terms of Use:
http://www.lan.com/en_us/sitio_perso...-use/about-us/
You may use the information on our site solely for non-commercial purposes, and any use or modification of the website contents is not permitted.

http://reservations.usairways.com/Default.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://reservations.usairways.com/en-US/aboutus/site_usage_policy.html
Content may be used for non-commercial personal use only, and you agree not to modify, copy, transmit, distribute, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, sell or otherwise transfer any information, software, products or services obtained from the Site without prior written permission from US Airways. You agree not to use any automatic device, manual process, or scraping to monitor or copy the Site or the content contained therein for any purpose without US Airways’ prior written permission. You agree not to use any device, software or routine to interfere with or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site.

https://book.austrian.com/app/fb.fly
Terms of Use:
http://www.austrian.com/Info/LegalRegulations/WebsiteTerms.aspx?sc_lang=en&cc=AT
2. Proprietary rights
All trademark rights, copyrights, database rights and other intellectual property rights to the contents of the Austrian-website, (as well as the organization and layout of the website), together with the underlying software code rest, either with Austrian or with its licensors. You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Austrian-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Austrian.

3. Permissible use
All Austrian-website online services (including the booking machine) are provided solely for the purpose of enabling you to check the availability of goods or services relating to your journey (the timetable, for example), make legitimate reservations, use our online check-in or transact other business with suppliers. You may only use the website in accordance with these terms and conditions and for the legally permitted purposes described above. In particular, you indicate your agreement to the following:
...
3.5 You may not reproduce information from the Austrian-website for commercial purposes. This also includes providing prices for Austrian flights on another website or another online server. In particular you may not copy, distribute, in other way use or reproduce discarded content from the Austrian-website with the help of 'robots', other search machine technologies or through other automatic mechanisms.

https://booking.qatarairways.com/qri...Booking.action
Terms of Use:

https://book.tam.com.br/TAM/dyn/air/...ng/retrievePNR
Terms of Use:

https://classic.checkmytrip.com/plne...ievePNR.action
Terms of Use:
(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

https://en.aegeanair.com
Terms of Use:

https://eservice.evaair.com
Terms of Use:

https://flymas.mobi/itravel/viewBooking.xhtml
Terms of Use:

https://fly.rj.com/MyBookings/Home/EN/Default.aspx
Terms of Use:

http://skyvector.com/airport/
Terms of Use:

https://m.aeroflot.ru/b/info/pnr/load
Terms of Use:

https://mm.alitalia.com/GB_EN/booking/apvsearch.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://mobile1.emirates.com/myb/review.xhtml
Terms of Use:

https://myb.s7.ru/getMyBooking.action
Terms of Use:

https://mytripandmore.com/Itinerary.aspx
Terms of Use:
https://mytripandmore.com/TermsAndConditions.aspx
Except as expressly permitted by these Terms, you may not:
...
9. use any "robot", "spider" or other automatic device, software, program, algorithm, routine, methodology, or any manual process or functionality:
...to monitor, assemble, analyse, index, copy, transmit, distribute, transfer, or link to any of the pages, data, materials, or content available on the Site,

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWe...yICAOAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://prefunds.aa.com/refunds/receipt
https://www.aa.com/reservation/findReservationSubmit.do
Terms of Use:
https://www.aa.com/i18n/footer/siteUsage.jsp
Intellectual property notifications
...
D. American Airlines owns or uses by permission all software contained on the Site, including without limitation all HTML code and Active X controls. Copyright and other laws and international treaty provisions protect this software. The law expressly prohibits any modification, redistribution, or reproduction of the software, and such actions could result in severe civil and criminal penalties. American Airlines will seek and support prosecuting violators to the maximum extent possible.
E. You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of the Site for public or commercial purposes. Nothing on the Site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.
...
Limitations on your use:
You agree that you will not Misuse the Site. "Misuse" includes, but is not limited to, using the Site to do any of the following:
...
L. Copy or create derivative works from, display, distribute, license, perform, publish, recreate, reproduce, sell, transfer, or transmit any information, products, services, or software obtained by, from, or through the Site.
M. Monitor or copy any Content by using any manual process, or any robot, spider, or other automatic device, without first obtaining American Airlines' prior written consent.

https://raw.github.com/opentraveldat...i_airlines.csv
Terms of Use:

https://secure.jetairways.com/PlatformID/Identify.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://tickets.airtran.com/SeatAvailability.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://www.southwest.com/html/about-...ons/index.html
Prohibited Activities

You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of this site for public or commercial purposes without our express written permission. Nothing on this site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.

You may not modify, re-render, frame, mirror, truncate, add to, inject, filter or change the order of the information contained on any page of the Southwest Airlines sites, including, without limitation, by any way of reproducing Southwest Airlines or SWABiz® web pages or Company information on any other web site without our express written permission.

You may not copy, derive, edit, translate, decompile, reverse engineer, modify, use, or reproduce any code or source relating to our sites, including without limitation, any service or product Southwest offers.

You may not cause to appear any pop-up, pop-under, exit windows, expanding buttons, banners advertisement, or anything else which minimizes, covers, or otherwise inhibits the full display of the Southwest Airlines sites.

You may not use any deep-link, page-scrape, robot, crawl, index, spider, click spam, macro programs, Internet agent, or other automatic device, program, algorithm or methodology which does the same things, to use, access, copy, acquire information, generate impressions or clicks, input information, store information, search, generate searches, or monitor any portion of the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information.
...
You may not disguise the origin of information transmitted to, from, or through the Southwest Airlines sites. You may not circumvent any measures implemented by Southwest Airlines aimed at preventing violations of the Use Agreement. You may not violate the restrictions in any robot exclusion header.

When you use the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information for an authorized purpose, you must include all proprietary notices without changing, hiding or deleting them.

You may not engage in any conduct that is, or that Southwest Airlines deems to be, in violation of this Use Agreement.

https://wftc3.e-travel.com
Terms of Use:

https://wtrweb.worldtracer.aero/WorldTracerWeb/pax.do
Terms of Use:

https://www121.jal.co.jp/JmbWeb/JR/S...MileCalc_en.do
Terms of Use:

https://www4.thy.com/mybookings/ETDisplay.tk
https://www4.thy.com/mybookings/getPnr.tk
Terms of Use:

https://www.airberlin.com/en-DE/cockpit
Terms of Use:

https://www.airfrance.fr/cgi-bin/AF/...chPnrAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.alaskaair.com/booking/reservationlookup
Terms of Use:

https://www.bookonline.saudiairlines...verride.action
https://www.bookonline.saudiairlines...verride.action
Terms of Use:

https://www.britishairways.com/trave...g/public/en_gb
Terms of Use:

https://www.checkmytrip.com/CMTSERVLET
Terms of Use:
https://www.checkmytrip.com/cmt/apf/...&SITE=NCMTNCMT
3. Licence restrictions

3.1 Except as expressly set out in this EULA or as permitted by any local law, you agree:
...
(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

https://www.delta.com/mytrips/findPnr.action
http://www.delta.com/ism/SeatMapDisplay.action
http://www.delta.com/shared/components/blank.jsp
Terms of Use:

https://www.finnair.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.flysas.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.iberia.com/web/retrievePNR.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.lot.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.lufthansa.com
Terms of Use:
http://www.lufthansa.com/online/port...d=2016866&l=en

2. Proprietary rights
...You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Lufthansa-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Deutsche Lufthansa AG.
https://www.routehappy.com/
Terms of Use:

https://www.swiss.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripforyou.net/t4u/PTopAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripple.jp
Terms of Use:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...n/default.aspx
Terms of Use:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/legal.aspx This website is for the User's personal, noncommercial use only. User agrees not to modify, copy, alter, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from this website without United’s prior written permission. User agrees not to use any robot, spider, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor or copy this website or the content contained therein or for any other unauthorized purpose without United’s prior written permission. ... United reserves the right to investigate any illegal and/or unauthorized use of this website, including, but not limited to, unauthorized framing of this website or unauthorized use of any robot, spider or other automated device, and to take appropriate legal action, including, without limitation, civil, criminal and injunctive redress.

https://www.viewtrip.com/GetItin.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://www.virginamerica.com/book/ow/a1/
Terms of Use:

https://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/g...ndBooking.next
Terms of Use:

https://www.virtuallythere.com/new/reservations.html
Terms of Use:

http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/
Terms of Use:

http://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi
Terms of Use:

http://www.airframes.org/fleet/
Terms of Use:

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...oking-now.html
Terms of Use:

http://www.flightradar24.com/
Terms of Use:

http://www.FlightStats.com/go/Flight...ingByFlight.do
http://www.FlightStats.com/go/Flight...tusByFlight.do
Terms of Use:

http://www.flightview.com/TravelTool...eryResults.asp
http://www.flightview.com/TravelTools/viewairport.asp
Terms of Use:

http://www.gcmap.com/airport/
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui
Terms of Use:
http://www.gcmap.com/faq/using
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps on my web page?
A: You may use maps generated by the Great Circle Mapper on non-commercial web pages (q.v. commericial use below) so long as you do not profit from them and you include the following credit on pages which include maps:
...
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps for commercial sites or publications?
A: Please write to Karl L. Swartz regarding terms for commercial use of the maps.

http://www.iata.org/about/members/Pa...line-list.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://www.iata.org/Pages/terms.aspx
2. Your Conduct

The content on this Site is for your personal use only within the organization or entity to which you are attached as applicable, and it is not intended for commercial exploitation unless expressly agreed in writing by IATA through a duly authorized representative. IATA authorizes you to download or reproduce selected materials at this Site only for your personal, non-commercial use, in the ordinary course of business provided that you retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained in the original materials on any copies of the materials and that the title or database brand name and IATA name is stated as the source.

You may not otherwise modify, disassemble, create derivative works, distribute, reproduce, publicly display, perform, transmit, re-transmit, sell, rent, sublicense, or otherwise use any materials or content on this Site for commercial or non-commercial exploitation by yourself or the organization or entity to which you are attached or permit third parties to so do. Without limitation, unlimited or wholesale reproduction, copying of the content for commercial or non-commercial purposes and unwarranted modification of data and information within the content is not permitted, and any use of these materials on any other website or networked computer environment for any purpose without IATA’s prior written consent is prohibited.
...
4. Intellectual Property Rights

...You must not modify, decompile, or reverse engineer any software IATA discloses to you via this Site, and you must not remove, overprint, or deface any notice of copyright, trademark, logo, legend, or other notice of ownership from any originals or copies of software or information from the website. "IATA Trademarks" means all names, marks, brands, URL names or addresses, logos, designs, trade dress and other designations IATA uses in connection with Products or Services. You are not permitted to incorporate any IATA Trademarks into any other trademarks, service marks, company names, Internet addresses, domain names, or any other similar designations. Any unauthorized use of any materials contained on this website may violate copyright laws, trademark laws, the laws of privacy and publicity, and communications regulations and statutes.

http://www.itn.net/cgi/get
Terms of Use:

http://www.kenya-airways.com/kqbook.aspx
Terms of Use:

http://www.myairlines.ru
Terms of Use:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/do/dyn/checkmytrip
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatexpert.com/multiple_results.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatguru.com/ajax/findseatmap.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatmaestro.com/airlines-...eckmytrip.html
http://www.seatmaestro.com/themes/de...te_airline.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/Airline
http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/airports-and-city
http://www.seatplans.com/find-and-compare/
Terms of Use:
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KVS Availability Tool

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Old Nov 1, 2008, 3:39 pm
  #2236  
KVS
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Originally Posted by lascarb
Sorry, but I don't understand why i need to read this link
Can you precise the post and not only the page?
Here it is: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...postcount=2087
KVS is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2008, 4:35 pm
  #2237  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by KVS
I know that, but you forgot the beginning of my sentence, more important for you, I think:

"I begin to regret my contribution to your tool since..."
lascarb is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2008, 8:47 pm
  #2238  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,630
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice
You are welcome to try an ExpertFlyer.com 5-day free trial as we still have full RTW and Circle fare listings along with their fare rules.

-EFV
The TVN capability (vs ZUJ) or lack there of when it comes to fares should drive many of KVS customers (who desire fare info) to ExpertFlyer instead of renewal.
zman is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2008, 11:49 pm
  #2239  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: CO Gold, US Plat, ICH Plat/RA
Posts: 130
CO Elite availability

Any plans to allow me to put in my OnePass user/password so I can see "improved" availiability for *S rewards?
pilo is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 11:48 am
  #2240  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by zman
The TVN capability (vs ZUJ) or lack there of when it comes to fares should drive many of KVS customers (who desire fare info) to ExpertFlyer instead of renewal.
I trust KVS tool for 2 years but for me, now, it is out of order...

All published fares are impossible to check and this is the major thing for me.

Other things, like schedules and booking classes can be found on free sites.

So why pay for that?

Expertflyer is too expensive and do not list all skyteam awards rules and classes.

So i am sad
lascarb is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 2:10 pm
  #2241  
Left Expert Flyer 4/23
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,741
Originally Posted by lascarb
Expertflyer is too expensive and do not list all skyteam awards rules and classes.
Can you please elaborate on what Skyteam rules and classes you are refering to?

-EFV
ExpertFlyer Voice is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 2:25 pm
  #2242  
KVS
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Originally Posted by lascarb
Other things, like schedules and booking classes can be found on free sites.
That's like saying that since engines and wheels can be found on cheap Volkswagens, then why pay for a Mercedes?

BTW, I could not locate you in the user database under this FT username -- could you pls PM me with your registered e-mail address?
KVS is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 2:33 pm
  #2243  
KVS
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Exclamation

Originally Posted by lascarb
Same result (no result) on november 1st
A work-around for the Fares/TVN engine date issue has been implemented and an updated version of the KVS Tool (V3.3.2) will be available for download tomorrow.
KVS is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 3:22 pm
  #2244  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 106
Thumbs down Expert flyer does not support 10 skyteam members

Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice
Can you please elaborate on what Skyteam rules and classes you are refering to?

-EFV
AIRLINE AWARD/UPGRADE CLASSES SUPPORTED BY EXPERTFLYER.COM®

There are 14 compagnies members of Skyteam and you support only 4...

For $99, it's not fit for Skyteam members.

Not supported: Aeroflot, Aeromexico, Alitalia, Continental, KLM, China southern, Korean air, Kenya airways, Air Europa, Copa airlines.
lascarb is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 5:44 pm
  #2245  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LI, NY
Programs: AA PLT, AAdv since Day One
Posts: 2,682
lascarb: It is unfortunate that neither of the offerings that you are referring to meet all your needs to the extent that you feel neither service is worth the cost to you. That is your evaluation based on your requirements and understandable as such. It is not a perfect world especially in an industry that makes every effort to keep most of the information that we FF'ers seek a big dark secret. I can only imagine the hoops these folks jump through to get any information at all to us.

I hope you find what you are looking for and at the price you feel is of appropriate value. Good luck to you.
inlanikai is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 5:57 pm
  #2246  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 253
you mean fare rules?
lopinc1 is offline  
Old Nov 2, 2008, 8:33 pm
  #2247  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hawaii
Programs: AA-Plat DL-Plat (did status match on DL before losing EXP on AA)
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by zman
The TVN capability (vs ZUJ) or lack there of when it comes to fares should drive many of KVS customers (who desire fare info) to ExpertFlyer instead of renewal.
ExpertFlyer (EF) in my opinion is worthless when it comes to fare info -
You cannot get published fares from EF without putting in a date for travel, and then will get only fares valid for that travel date. So, there is no way to find all the published fares for a city pair without putting in every possible date.
Not only is it worthless, in my opinion their own website is misleading and inaccurate regarding EF capability - their website says:
Fare Information - Shows all available published fare pricing between a pair of cities for one-way, round-trip and Around The World (RTW) fares
.
This is false - it does not show ALL AVAILABLE PUBLISHED FARE PRICING between a pair of cities - it shows all available published fare pricing FOR A PARTICULAR DATE - and in the case of round-trip, for a date pair.

EF's fares are the equivalent of KVS' Sabre/DotRes method (which I never use).
vrichard is offline  
Old Nov 3, 2008, 3:01 am
  #2248  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by inlanikai
lascarb: It is unfortunate that neither of the offerings that you are referring to meet all your needs to the extent that you feel neither service is worth the cost to you. That is your evaluation based on your requirements and understandable as such. It is not a perfect world especially in an industry that makes every effort to keep most of the information that we FF'ers seek a big dark secret. I can only imagine the hoops these folks jump through to get any information at all to us.

I hope you find what you are looking for and at the price you feel is of appropriate value. Good luck to you.
Thank you for your kind answer: anyway, I am not stupid ( not yet) and a perfect world would be impossible to live...

During 2 years I used KVS tools and it has been a very good engine to find anything I need for my job, including fares on a specific way , fares at a specific date and RTW fares from different shipping points.

For 2 weeks, it has changed and you can read above that I am not alone to complain for the lack of these important points. So I ask just to find again what has disappeared.

Considering Expertflyer, the fact that 10 compagnies on 14 Skyteam members are not supported in the award section is a big problem for me because it is my favorite alliance to fly ( even Continental is missing!). I am sure that most paying people don't care about that.

99 $ a year is too much for a service that does not fit for me and I do not like to give my credit card number to try anything during five days...Expertflyer should have a free light version like KVS, a free first step before paying service and credit card registering.

Sorry for my approximative english.
lascarb is offline  
Old Nov 3, 2008, 2:47 pm
  #2249  
KVS
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Originally Posted by inlanikai
lascarb: It is unfortunate that neither of the offerings that you are referring to meet all your needs to the extent that you feel neither service is worth the cost to you. That is your evaluation based on your requirements and understandable as such. It is not a perfect world especially in an industry that makes every effort to keep most of the information that we FF'ers seek a big dark secret. I can only imagine the hoops these folks jump through to get any information at all to us.

I hope you find what you are looking for and at the price you feel is of appropriate value. Good luck to you.

^^

And in terms of comparative value, one should consider this: OAG's product for frequent flyers, which can only show Timetable data (i.e. 5% of the overall functionality available via the KVS Tool) is priced at $21.99 USD/month with a minimum term of 12 months: http://www.OAG.com/flight-products/e...s/oag-flights/
KVS is offline  
Old Nov 3, 2008, 2:57 pm
  #2250  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 106
So what?
lascarb is offline  


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