draver

Now I'm wondering if all iPads Find My will give accurate results or if the WiFi only versions will even be included in the reporting. The cellular versions have a GPS chip, but others do not. I know nothing about capabilities of MacBooks. Do some have GPS built in, or are there such a thing as a cellular MacBook?

GUWonder

Devices with Bluetooth and WiFi on but otherwise in Airplane type mode should be able to help locate/scope-in on AirTags/Tiles/equivalent based on signal strength. It may take longer, but it still works. Being in airplane mode doesn't necessarily mean that GPS is not working.

HDQDD

Got a 4 pack. They work great for me. Been testing by putting one inside a pelican case and having the kids hide it. The signal is (of course) degraded I the case but prob still good enough for luggage tracking, with the billion or so iOS devices out there.

I’ll be traveling with them next week and should have some better real world data.

Need

I bought the 2-pack from Costco ($50) last Christmas for gifts so, with discount, they were about the same price as AirTags. But if AirTags were out back then, I would have bought the AirTags. I think both will do a good job of finding the item when you are a few hundreds feet away. But if you left the item somewhere far away and you don't know where it is, that's when the Find My network will shine over Tile. For example, if you left something at the back of a taxi. Tile will tell you the last time it was seen was when the taxi dropped you off at that location. It would not tell you where the new location is until another Tile user is near it. But AirTag will tell you where it is if the driver or any of the customers has an iPhone. Not to mention that all the iPhones in the other cars near the taxi will also help tracking it down.

I think if Tile does not want to join Find My, it is going to be hard for them to stay in the business.

draver

I have read that Tile argues that it is unfair of Apple to expect to be paid on "In App" purchases, such as Tiles' monthly or annual subscriptions. Even though their tracking system would benefit greatly from it. This seems to be their main objection and that Apple enabled this rule when other developers were dodging fees by creating "Free" apps, but then selling more app features out the back door. The problem Tile will face is that the Find My Phone app was created long before Tile, as was the App Store. To me, Tile really doesn't have much to say about how a business is being run that existed before they did. But that's just me. I guess we now know where their profits come from.

GUWonder

A lot of companies are not happy with Apple trying to charge them even c. 25+% for service plans that also work for phone apps that have been made available on Apple's App store but could be sold outside of the Apple channels more if Apple didn't try to restrict it.

Tile isn't the only company to have issues with Apple over this. I am expecting to see more regulators get in on publicly going after Apple for trying to lock in huge fee revenue from third party apps being used on Apple devices. This is already in the target scope of regulators in various places who find Apple's practice to be an abuse of market power and undermining competition. [It's just expensive to take on Apple and winning against Apple is far more of a challenge nowadays for reasons independent of principle.]

I was under the impression that most individual Tile owners don't maintain a subscription plan, but many a seller of goods is reliant upon or otherwise big into wanting to maximize subscription revenue.

Tile's going to struggle, without a doubt. That's why they will have to seek refuge in litigation (as in the threat of litigation and regulation).

Some very tiny sliver of iPhone users may turn off the ability of their phones to be used for tracking AirTags. The question then is if Apple will try to be at least as persistent in disabling the use of iPhones' background tracking of the AirTags as they are with Tile and other third party apps on iPhones being used for background tracking of Tile/Tile-like products.

exp

Tile charges a subscription in addition to the hardware price?

Sure they can distribute outside the App Store. And nobody will find them or bother to sign up.

People are going to trust buying things in the App Store over having to sign up with some relatively unknown company directly.

It's an old analogy but the App Store is like a high traffic mall. To access that high volume of traffic of affluent and willing to spend consumers, you're going to have to pay for the access.

Companies like Epic and Base Camp can complain but if they weren't in the App Store they wouldn't see anywhere near the same kind of revenues.

draver

I see both sides of the In App fees but no one forces a developer to create a business model knowing about the Apple Store fees. Android is a thriving platform but the apps are open source and can carry malicious software. I believe Apple has the right to charge for providing a repository users are relatively safe within, frequent updates, consistent hardware experiences, and thoroughly vetted software. Tile seems like they want it both ways. To keep the revenues they charge and enjoy the exposure and business the App Store brings them. They need to acknowledge the huge potential uptick in business they would gain, offsetting the "Apple Tax".

GUWonder

Apple blocks the installation of independent apps on iPhones in a way that acts as a restriction on competition and limits consumer choice. That's not new, but now there is also the Tile angle that could add to the concerns about Apple's anti-consumer behavior and Apple's adverse impact on competition in the marketplace.

Apple blocks the ability of consumers to make a choice about whether to source iPhone apps from the Apple App Store or from elsewhere.

Tile has a subscription plan option, but the Tile devices work effectively with the Tile app and related crowdsourcing tracking even without going in on any subscription plans.

Here's a list of what is free with Tile use and what is not: https://www.thetileapp.com/en-us/get-premium

exp

I believe you can still put web apps on your home screen, unless they removed that capacity in the current iOS.

Or have people go to your website and run services that way.

Not optimal but not true to say you have no way to provide services to iOS devices without going through the App Store.

GUWonder

No one here has said there is no way to work around Apple's restrictions when it comes to AirTag competitors. Tile already has a functioning app being distributed via Apple's App Store, and that doesn't even require a workaround. That a company has an app in Apple's App Store doesn't necessarily negate that the restrictions Apple has in place and other Apple actions may be deemed to be a restraint on trade and competition in the marketplace.

djsflynn

FWIW, sharing a review I did last week of the AirTags with specific reference to checked luggage. The presume was, can you use Apple’s AirTag to track your checked luggage as it arrives on the baggage claim carousel and then trundles out to meet you?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...hecked-baggage

Snap summary: the answer turned out to be an unequivocal 'No', although there are other checked-luggage scenarios where AirTags could prove useful. Additionally, while the AirTag won't proactively announce its presence by sending an alert or notification to your iPhone once it's within Bluetooth range (which shouldn't be that complicated, and is actually what I'd love), this is something I think Apple could bake into a future software/firmware update.

exp

If they can work around the App Store, they can't complain about restrictions.

Working through the App Store gets them way more exposure than they otherwise would. They have to pay for that placement or not use it.

But look at all the limitations Apple puts on AirTags. Tile could easily offer more features including some that Apple won't touch, like the ability to track checked luggage through the same Find My network.

I can't imagine Tile is a big seller. It came out years ago and on Amazon, its prices were all over the place. So they're going to try to go subscription like many other apps have done. But it would be difficult for them to charge a subscription for an inferior network or charge for using Find My network when Apple isn't charging for it.

They need to find another business model because again, I doubt their current model was generating a lot of cash flow. How often are people going to buy tracker devices once they buy them? And how much is tracking worth to consumers that they'd pay a subscription? Has to be a tiny addressable market of people willing to pay a subscription.

josephstern

AFAIK, they could show the location in the Find My app, but they won't be able to use Apple's vast network of devices to locate the Tile in the first place. I think the part they lack is the more powerful piece of the puzzle here.

exp

I think they could use the network but not necessarily the Apple app.

there are probably APIs they could integrate into their own app.

yes they can’t use the UWB chip to do what Apple demo’d. But they could have the Tile chirp from 30 feet away and that’s good enough.