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Apple Air Tags (Consolidated Threads)

Apple Air Tags (Consolidated Threads)

Old May 7, 2021, 12:49 pm
  #136  
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AirTags aren't loss-leaders. If Apple were to be pricing them below cost, then Apple would be shooting itself in the foot when it comes to being in the crosshairs for engaging in anti-competitive measures that hurt consumers.

Apple is more than trying to leverage the huge installed base of Apple devices, for Apple is actually already using its huge installed base to operate and benefit from a crowdsourced surveillance network. And, yes, AirTags are yet another part of the "Apple only" strategy to try to lock in its installed base.

Last edited by GUWonder; May 7, 2021 at 1:00 pm
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Old May 7, 2021, 2:06 pm
  #137  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Without the Apple crowdsourced surveillance network — as set up by Apple’s “Find My” arrangement on Apple devices — what’s AirTags compelling selling point?

Calling it a crowdsourced surveillance network isn’t an overstatement, as AirTags is relying upon Apple's crowdsourced surveillance network to give AirTags much of whatever compelling value there is in it for its users. Without the Apple "Find My"-enabled crowdsourced surveillance network, the Apple trackers wouldn't really be effective trackers at any substantial distance. Trackers are only as effective as they can be surveilled or surveil.

Tile says much the same kind of thing as Apple about its crowdsourced surveillance network operation, but they both sell their trackers on the basis that they have a crowdsourced surveillance network that works even as they won't call a crowdsourced surveillance network what it is: a crowdsourced surveillance network.

That a crowdsourced surveillance network operation has some built-in protections for some privacy doesn't eliminate the nature of the crowded surveillance network being a crowdsourced surveillance network.
Technically it is a "crowdsourced network" however, there is the voluntary aspect. I don't have an iPhone, but I suspect the "Find My" software is on by default. That in an of itself is disturbing if true. It is sort of like a forced assistance to Apple.

Tile on the other hand might be a "crowdsourced network" but if you don't install the software, you are not contributing to this network. So this at least gives you a choice if you want to participate. wheras with Apple, you're either all in or not. I suspect a lot of people who don't realise this will be mighty upset when they find out.
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Old May 7, 2021, 2:15 pm
  #138  
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With Apple you can be part in and part out with contributing to Apple's crowdsourced surveillance network, but it requires more work and inconvenience to drop out -- or to repeatedly cycle in and out -- of contributing to the Apple's crowdsourced surveillance network than it takes with regard to contributing to Tile's crowdsourced surveillance network.
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Old May 8, 2021, 9:18 am
  #139  
 
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Originally Posted by StuckInYYZ
Technically it is a "crowdsourced network" however, there is the voluntary aspect. I don't have an iPhone, but I suspect the "Find My" software is on by default. That in an of itself is disturbing if true. It is sort of like a forced assistance to Apple.
Actually I just looked at this yesterday. My wife and my son both got iPhones. Both phones have Find My (The overall one) ON. You need this to be ON in order to remotely locate your device using iClould/Find so pretty much everyone's iPhone has this ON. But under it, there is a "Find My Network". If you have this turned on, even if your device has no internet connection (whether it is a iPhone, iPad, Mac book, Apple watch or AirTag), you could still locate it with other people helping you. Interesting point is the my wife's iPhone has this option OFF and my son's iPhone has this option ON. Neither my wife nor my son has manually set this option. Both iPhones are on version 14.5.1.
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Old May 8, 2021, 11:40 am
  #140  
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Apple has its crowdsourced surveillance network for AirTags too, and Amazon's got its own with Sidewalk. Amazon's Sidewalk is integrating with Tile from June.

Tile has announced that it’ll be launching support for Amazon Sidewalk — the company’s local, Bluetooth network — on June 14th, allowing Amazon’s Echo devices to strengthen Tile’s network.

The two companies had already announced plans for Tile to join Sidewalk last fall, but today’s announcement gives an actual date and details for the integration. The addition of Tile support comes just a few days after Amazon is turning on Sidewalk support for compatible Echo devices in the US on June 8th, too. Also getting access to Sidewalk are Level’s smart locks, which will be able to leverage Sidewalk to directly connect to Ring doorbells, allowing the locks to be used even when outside of Bluetooth range.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/7/22...acking-airtags

Amazon's approach to privacy is far more questionable than Apple's.

Last edited by GUWonder; May 8, 2021 at 11:46 am
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Old May 8, 2021, 12:10 pm
  #141  
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Amazon has mobile Echo devices?

Or rare they talking about those Alexa speakers, which are in homes mostly and never leave the house?
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Old May 8, 2021, 1:06 pm
  #142  
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A device need not be mobile for it to be used as part of a crowdsourced surveillance network. Fixed station surveillance networks already exist in ways. For example, look at what Amazon does with Ring.
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Old May 8, 2021, 1:24 pm
  #143  
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Sure they can work.

But how common are Echo speakers in say commercial districts like downtown vs. a residential area?

In any event, highly doubtful there are a billion Echo devices which are connected at a given time.
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Old May 8, 2021, 1:32 pm
  #144  
 
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What was the conclusion on the original question related to best way to use Airtags for luggage tracking?

What I'm going to do:
In my large suitcase, I'll I'll put it in the inner pouch that runs along the middle. Not sure how to secure it down so that it doesn't fall out. Duct tape is first thing that comes to mind though that seems messy.
In my carry on, I'm going to keep it on the outside with a loop so that I can hear it if needed.
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Old May 8, 2021, 2:09 pm
  #145  
 
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Originally Posted by MareLuce
What was the conclusion on the original question related to best way to use Airtags for luggage tracking?

What I'm going to do:
In my large suitcase, I'll I'll put it in the inner pouch that runs along the middle. Not sure how to secure it down so that it doesn't fall out. Duct tape is first thing that comes to mind though that seems messy.
In my carry on, I'm going to keep it on the outside with a loop so that I can hear it if needed.
Why not just put it inside your toiletry bag that goes inside your luggage? If I get an airtag, that's where mine would go. But if Bluetooth signal is significantly weaken by our rimowa metal case, then it would have to be inside our luggage tag (maybe duct tape).
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Old May 8, 2021, 2:20 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Apple has its crowdsourced surveillance network for AirTags too, and Amazon's got its own with Sidewalk. Amazon's Sidewalk is integrating with Tile from June.
Interesting. I didn't know Sidewalk would be working with Tile. I turned Sidewalk off for my 2 echo dots. I see no benefit for me to have it on. Now if Amazon will give me some credit every month to have it on.....
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Old May 8, 2021, 2:23 pm
  #147  
 
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Originally Posted by Need
Did she get the notification while you guys were still out walking around or after your guys got home? Do your iPhone and your wife's iPhone have the same Home address in Apple Map app?
Yes as I noted, she and I have the same home address in the Apple Map and the My info card + we are in a family sharing group. Not to mention we are each other's emergency contacts.


Originally Posted by GUWonder
Calling it a crowdsourced surveillance network isn’t an overstatement, as AirTags is relying upon Apple's crowdsourced surveillance network to give AirTags much of whatever compelling value there is in it for its users. Without the Apple "Find My"-enabled crowdsourced surveillance network, the Apple trackers wouldn't really be effective trackers at any substantial distance. Trackers are only as effective as they can be surveilled or surveil.
Surveillance implies that someone other than the owner can track these tags. If what Apple has disclosed about how the system works, even THEY cannot track your tags.

The big difference between the way Apple does things (like maps for example) is that they don't retain identifiable information. I've stopped using Google maps for this very reason. Not only does google maintain identifiable logs of everywhere you've been, but they also hand that data over to police fishing expeditions (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...e-him-n1151761). This kind of thing simply isn't possible with the Apple Implementation. For that very reason, I trust apple find-my network much more than I would from another company such as Tile or Google, or Samsung etc.
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Old May 8, 2021, 2:47 pm
  #148  
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Surveillance implies that something is being tracked or subject to being tracked. Whether or not someone other than the owner can track these tags, AirTags can be used to track people, animals, luggage and more.

Is Apple Find My information tied with Apple's iCloud?

Apple complies with law enforcement requests for the details of iCloud accounts, including access to any of the data that's on there. The data being encrypted doesn't guarantee that its off-limits. AirTags data too?

Last edited by GUWonder; May 8, 2021 at 2:54 pm
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Old May 8, 2021, 4:28 pm
  #149  
 
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Originally Posted by Need
Why not just put it inside your toiletry bag that goes inside your luggage?
hmmm... I'd like that idea if I always took the same toiletry bag. I usually do except for vacations like the one I'm about to go on.
But more than that, I want it to stay semi-permanently WITH the luggage, not inside of something I'd definitely remove to refill hair product, makeup, etc.

Originally Posted by Need
then it would have to be inside our luggage tag (maybe duct tape).
Y. I'd want it disguised if I do that.
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Old May 8, 2021, 8:58 pm
  #150  
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Having battery-laden electronic items inside checked-in luggage may increase the chance of the TSA opening up the checked-in luggage for inspection looking for it. Just something to keep in mind when it comes to placing AirTags in checked-in luggage.

For how long or in what interval will the AirTags keep beeping inside checked luggage before it causes an issue? And if the thing is beeping, then who knows what some may do with the luggage.

If the AirTags being used in checked-in luggage aren't easily seen, easily accessible and easily removable and the screeners are looking for an alerting item, then who knows what happens next.

Last edited by GUWonder; May 8, 2021 at 9:07 pm
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