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Apple Air Tags (Consolidated Threads)

Apple Air Tags (Consolidated Threads)

Old Apr 29, 2021, 1:17 am
  #46  
exp
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Yeah I get the privacy stuff and it would be a huge mess if someone used one of these things and killed someone that he was stalking.

But I'm just talking about what the technology enabled. It's like stuff out of spy movies.

Also remember that luggage tracker thing with GPS? Was an expensive piece of kit.

So it would be cool if you could throw one of these in your checked luggage just for curiosity sake.
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Old Apr 29, 2021, 6:38 am
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Originally Posted by exp
Yeah I get the privacy stuff and it would be a huge mess if someone used one of these things and killed someone that he was stalking.

But I'm just talking about what the technology enabled. It's like stuff out of spy movies.

Also remember that luggage tracker thing with GPS? Was an expensive piece of kit.

So it would be cool if you could throw one of these in your checked luggage just for curiosity sake.
I bought mine expressly for tracking luggage, not as a curiosity. $22 per tag with Vet discount for a 4 pack and no other fees. I fully expect them to nearly constantly report their position while in and around airports and other travel centers. The sheer number of iPhones in the wild almost guarantees this in my mind. Remember, if Tile tracking is currently successful enough to be in business with 30M users reporting device locations, imagine how 10X or 20X that amount will function with iPhone & iPad notifications. I see Tile taking a hit at best and a threat to their existence at worst. They might do well to just pay Apple royalties and join that system. Apple seems to be open to that option apparently to avoid some anti trust claims. Everyone knew this was coming from Apple for over a year, and now here it is and it looks like the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, at least for Tile.
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Old Apr 29, 2021, 3:29 pm
  #48  
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If Apple opens its Find My whatever stuff to Tile devices too as part of an attempt to get ahead of antitrust/competition concerns, then it might actually be better business for Tile and help Tile users too.

Originally Posted by josephstern
Given the importance that Apple places on privacy, I'm willing to bet that anti-stalking is paramount here. And, as has been noted above, they tout these as more about help with finding lost items, not about tracking for stolen items.
Apple's marketing VP Kaiann Drance was doing the press rounds on this. Drance has repeatedly said that they were designed to track items, not people or pets. Drance, however, also said that they could be used to track pets even as they had their limits with pet tracking. With regard to children, Drance suggested that tracking children with an Apple Watch using the Family Setup was a "better choice" than using Airtags to do so.

Airtags will be used to track people, and Apple isn't clueless that there's no easy way to stop all of that from happening with these kind of devices.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 2:36 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
If Apple opens its Find My whatever stuff to Tile devices too as part of an attempt to get ahead of antitrust/competition concerns, then it might actually be better business for Tile and help Tile users too.
Isn't it already open (https://developer.apple.com/find-my/)? So it would be more like Tile's decision if they want to join or keep using their own (proprietary) network to achieve the same.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 3:14 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by miikka
Isn't it already open (https://developer.apple.com/find-my/)? So it would be more like Tile's decision if they want to join or keep using their own (proprietary) network to achieve the same.
Is FindMy really open if Apple conditions FindMy’s use in such a way that Apple effectively restricts another company from continuing to operate In the manner it did before being subject to Apple’s conditions and/or Apple’s newer interpretation/implementation of conditions? If Tile is able and willing to have it taken to court as far as possible, then maybe we’ll get a definitive answer to that question.

Apple’s more generous to lawyers than Tile. But I do love a good David vs Goliath story.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 3:54 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Is FindMy really open if Apple conditions FindMys use in such a way that Apple effectively restricts another company from continuing to operate In the manner it did before being subject to Apples conditions and/or Apples newer interpretation/implementation of conditions? If Tile is able and willing to have it taken to court as far as possible, then maybe well get a definitive answer to that question.

Apples more generous to lawyers than Tile. But I do love a good David vs Goliath story.
Good question - and my comment was towards the direction that it is open in the typical Apple way where developers can join in and develop for it. But it isn't open as open source or open standard. It is by definition Apple technology and controlled by Apple in the end.

It will be also interesting to see how many will join in addition to those who have already now joined the Find My (VanMoof, Belkin, Chipolo) and how the ecosystem develops further. Let's see if we get the David vs. Goliath story.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 6:53 am
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I am left wondering two possible reasons Tile may not wish to enter the Apple walled garden. It is possible Apple will not permit another entity to charge a subscription fee for any services. Or that Tile users wouldn't need them with what Apple provides as included. Secondly, the monthly/annual fees are a cash cow to Tile and their business plan depends on those subscriptions as a big part of their profit center.

Tile must have seen this coming and they have chosen to litigate instead of cooperate. I doubt that that choice gives them any leverage with Apple. Doesn't seem wise to me, but they must not like or be able to deal with using Find My.

Chipolo on the other hand seems like a very reasonable alternative or supplement to the AirTag system, and at the right price, many like myself may consider using both for different reasons.

As I touched upon earlier, if you are a VET and register with ID Me.com you can get a 10% discount on virtually everything Apple sells. This brings the price of a AirTag 4 pack down to $89 inc. shipping. Pretty much chump change for what promises to be a remarkable device and system. Fingers crossed.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 12:38 pm
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I bought a 4 pack today. They're not particularly accurate. Despite being in the same house, one is showing 2 houses one way, the other is showing 1 house the other way in the Find My app.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 12:44 pm
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
I bought a 4 pack today. They're not particularly accurate. Despite being in the same house, one is showing 2 houses one way, the other is showing 1 house the other way in the Find My app.
Ouch...

Regards
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 12:46 pm
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Speaking of ultra-wideband, it could already be the case that Tile is already tied up with an Apple non-disclosure agreement related to U1 chips/ultra wideband from a few months before AirTags was announced.

Originally Posted by DYKWIA
I bought a 4 pack today. They're not particularly accurate. Despite being in the same house, one is showing 2 houses one way, the other is showing 1 house the other way in the Find My app.
Almost the same kind of issues with Tile with the Tile app at times, but move around enough and eventually it should correct a bit at least.

On what kind of device are you using the Find My app? Not all devices with Find My have ultra-wideband capability, and maybe that has some consequences for Find My use with AirTags. Have you tried to enable the precise location thing instead of approximate location on your device with the Find My app?
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 12:59 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
On what kind of device are you using the Find My app? Not all devices with Find My have ultra-wideband capability, and maybe that has some consequences for Find My use with AirTags. Have you tried to enable the precise location thing instead of approximate location on your device with the Find My app?
Good point... I tried with my MacBook Air. I've just tried again with my iPhone, and it's much better.

I do love how easy Apple makes installation of these sort of things. Pull out the battery tab, it appears on your iPhone, you click Connect, and off you go. 15 seconds at most.

I bought a Sonos Roam last week, and getting that installed and on the Wifi network was an absolute pig.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 2:13 pm
  #57  
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Tile could join the Find My network but they won't have access to the UWB chips in the later iPhone models, which will show 30 feet away indications as you get close to AirTag. Certainly a competitive disadvantage.

However, I considered Tile in the past and didn't go for it. I've heard complaints since that you can't change the battery, have to get a new Tile and prices were all over the place on Amazon.

In any event, it was a niche market. AirTags will probably expand that market by several times whatever volume Tile shipped. The keynote demo probably brought far more attention than whatever advertising Tile has done to date.

AirTags are priced for impulse buys by millions of iOS device owners, many of whom never even knew about Tile. People will play around with it and most of them will never really check their AirTag locations after the curiosity factor wears off.

But AirTags will easily dwarf Tiles out in the field. If Apple is lucky, AirTags become another thing that keeps people on iOS.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 2:19 pm
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
I bought a 4 pack today. They're not particularly accurate. Despite being in the same house, one is showing 2 houses one way, the other is showing 1 house the other way in the Find My app.
My 4 pack arrives today and I have several questions before beginning my testing. What iPhone or device are your using for tracking and what iOS is installed? I'm curious because this is the first I've heard of any lack of location accuracy from any source on the web. It would seem that if it is in the same house as your phone, then your phone GPS accuracy is at fault, not the AirTag.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 3:19 pm
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
Good point... I tried with my MacBook Air. I've just tried again with my iPhone, and it's much better.
I think that's why the AirTag location was off. MacBook Air does not have built in GPS chip. It uses WiFi to estimate its location so it could be off by a house or 2. Although your iPhone (even though you were not using it for Find My app) should help your MacBook Air to put in a more accurate location. I wonder how Find My network works when you have some inaccurate devices (like macbook) mixed in with ones with GPS chips locating the same thing. Does it just take the average and make it guess or put more weight on the ones with GPS.
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Old Apr 30, 2021, 6:51 pm
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Originally Posted by exp
Tile could join the Find My network but they won't have access to the UWB chips in the later iPhone models, which will show 30 feet away indications as you get close to AirTag. Certainly a competitive disadvantage.

However, I considered Tile in the past and didn't go for it. I've heard complaints since that you can't change the battery, have to get a new Tile and prices were all over the place on Amazon.

In any event, it was a niche market. AirTags will probably expand that market by several times whatever volume Tile shipped. The keynote demo probably brought far more attention than whatever advertising Tile has done to date.

AirTags are priced for impulse buys by millions of iOS device owners, many of whom never even knew about Tile. People will play around with it and most of them will never really check their AirTag locations after the curiosity factor wears off.

But AirTags will easily dwarf Tiles out in the field. If Apple is lucky, AirTags become another thing that keeps people on iOS.
TilePro is relatively cheap, requires no holder for the Tile to be attached to an item, has batteries which can be cheaply swapped by the owner, has a range of well over 100 feet, and (with the Tile app) gives a feet away indication (using circles) as the phone (with the Tile app) gets closer to the account-linked Tile. And the Tile can be pressed by the Tile-holding person to ring the linked phone with the Tile app running.
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