pdxer

let me guess, you don't use macs.

the macdefender malware tricks the user into installing bogus software and clicking through multiple installer panels to do so. it can't install otherwise, even if it is automatically downloaded (which can be disabled too).

the problem is that people fall for these scams, not the operating system, and it's not limited to just computers either. some people give out their credit card or bank account number to random phone callers for some super hot deal that not surprisingly, turns out to not be what they thought.

Always Flyin

Mac users are told they are immune from malware/trojans/viruses.

Guess what? Many of them believe it and think it doesn't matter what they download because they are protected.

Why do you think it is that Apple customer support is presently overwhelmed by service calls from this malware?

There is a reason why Apple itself recommends anti-virus software. Just because you know how to prevent such infiltration from this particular malware does not mean most users do.

pdxer

straw man. nobody has said macs are immune from malware. everything can be compromised. the fact is that macs are at a very low risk for malware and it's impossible to do without having the user do something to install it.

in fact, they are protected. that's how unix works. if the user does not provide their admin password, an app can't affect the system. unfortunately, people blindly type it in whenever asked, and there isn't much you can do once that happens. if you hand over the keys to the house, the bad guys can do whatever they want.

actually, they don't. what they say is that the mac protects against threats out of the box but in some cases, additional protection might be justified. it is more cover your rear than anything else.

it's also important to note that mac anti-virus software has caused more problems than it has solved. norton in particular had bugs which rendered the mac not usable and needing a complete reinstall.

by the way, the anti-virus apps that are sold on apple's mac app store won't catch macdefender, so even if you take apple's supposed recommendation, it wont' help! however, apple is going to issue a patch for os x to block and eradicate macdefender and its variants, probably in the next day or two. it's already been seeded to developers.

unfortunately, anti-virus software can only block known malware and can only guess at future methods (and that can false and cause problems). a user can fall into a false sense of security, which can be worse. people need to be aware of and not fall for phishing scams, bogus emails, solicitors asking for bank account numbers, requests to wire money somewhere, fake atm machines, etc. it's not just computers where people get scammed.

LIH Prem

damn shame this what this thread is turning into ...

pdxer, there's a new variant that doesn't need your admin passwd. It's still a social engineering attack though. (though I have clicked "ok" on some questionable stuff in my life, so you shouldn't really dismiss this as "only an idiot would let it run" IMO).

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...equirement.ars

Unfortunately, you are pretty much wrong on just about everything. Mac's are vulnerable. unix is vulnerable too. Fortunately, there isn't much out there yet. Some people think this is about to change.

Do you need anti-virus, malware protection on a mac? I would agree with you that you really don't, at least "not yet". Keep your system up to date and never allow something to run that might be at all questionable (be careful how you answer pop-up messages.) Make sure to disable the option in safari or any other web browsers that allows known file types to open automatically.

-David

pdxer

that article doesn't tell the whole story. what happens is that the malware tries to install its payload into the applications folder, which is writable by admins but not by non-admins.

that means if the user is running as a non-admin (which they should be), then the system will ask for the admin password to install something there.

unfortunately, most people create an admin account and use that as their default account, in which case the system won't ask to install into the apps folder since it already has permission to do so.

in any event, apple is going to patch this whole macdefender issue.

if macs are that vulnerable (and i never said they weren't, only that the risk was low), why is there so little mac malware? certainly there should be all sorts of nasty stuff, since so few mac users have any sort of protection, and there isn't. what there is requires the user to do something.

that's why macdefender has taken to tricking the user. cracking os x is a lot harder.

right, as of right now, it's not needed. even charlie miller, the security expert who is well known for finding exploits on macs and other systems, says it's not needed.

LIH Prem

and that's the way Apple's software has you set it up out of the box. That's how all my systems are set up.

They are going to start playing fetch a rock. They even told their techs not to acknowledge it if people were found to be infected. Their response has been ridiculous so far. The recent tech update and announcement of the upcoming sw update is certainly welcome news, but their initial response was ridiculous.

A lot harder than what? Any vulnerability will work, and there are plenty of them.

The reason they have not been attacked as much is because the hackers have gone after the volume platform, but as the numbers for Apple grows, so will the attacks. If anything, that's what this "mac defender" type of attack demonstrates. And they've already evolved it. Why would they stop there?

Hey, I'm not here to "dis" Apple or tell people to buy something else. I am an Apple fan myself and anybody considering a switch should certainly check it out. However, I won't tell people that malware, etc is not ever going to be a problem with Apple products. That would be unrealistic in my personal and professional opinion.

-David

pdxer

a lot harder than windows, and if there are 'plenty' of vulnerabilities, why haven't the bad guys used them? why are they relying on tricking the user to install something, rather than exploiting one of these many vulnerabilities?

this myth just won't die. it has less to do with market share and more to do with how easy it is. malware today is about money, and on windows it is easy to do and provides a huge return on investment.

apple's market share has grown by quite a bit over the last few years, yet mac malware has not. it's still very rare and every instance requires the user to install it.

before os x (system 7 era, 1990s), when mac market share was significantly smaller than it is now, macs had more malware than it does now, including viruses which propagated on their own and some of which caused data loss. back then, it was relatively easy to write malware that could do that. with os x, it is a lot harder.

i never said it was never going to be a problem.

LIH Prem

ok, whatever you say.

Then what are we arguing about? Let's just stop this nonsense.

-David

Always Flyin

Some people just won''t let any perceived negative comment about Apple stand without a protest.

Sort of like the BA and LH protectors on those respective boards.

First he says you have to click through a bunch of warning messages to load the malware, then had to backtrack off that.

Macs are computers that are run by humans and will allow them to download malware and viruses. Macs are not perfect. Some just don't want to admit it.

I guess I'll get thrown out of the Mac club now...

stupidhead

Omg. Yes. Too bad my first macbook pro (late '06-early '07 model) is still kicking. Sometimes I wish it would hurry up and die. Mac is awesome except for their pricing.

13" MacBook Pro 2.7GHz with 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD :drool: but $3,366.95+tax (including AppleCare, MS Office and remote)

Maybe it's time to let it die. But its crappy battery life, heavy 5.5lb weight, and worn metal casing is kind of growing on me...however, if Apple can shave a pound off the next edition of the 13" MBP, I wouldn't have a problem dropping 3Gs on a new laptop...

painintheuk

I am in the same situation as the OP - I have long been a Windows user, largely because of proprietary software (which I no longer use) and Office, including VBA. The new Office 11 seems to solve the VBA problem and the MBP seems like far and away the best laptop for me.

One issue that I have is that I still have a W7 desktop at home. I have a 1TB USB drive that I use for regular backups and synchronization between the 2 machines. Will Time Machine deal well with the 2 systems? How should I synchronize files? I'm assuming (should I?) that most files will be fine, but how about email backups and Lightroom edits be dealt with?

Thanks

Dr. PITUK

aster

Especially the latter.

I would definitely get VirusBarrier X6. People have a false sense of security simply because Macs aren't targeted as much as PCs, but there is definitely some crap out there and Apple's rise in popularity will only draw more attention to Mac users.

alanw

To the OP: you're gonna love it. But probably not at first. I bought a Macbook because it seemed interesting but after a week I was so frustrated with all the thinking different that I just wiped it and installed Windows instead. Fast-forward to a year or so later, when I saw a great deal on a demo Mac Mini. I made myself promise I would use it for one month before giving up. After about three weeks I hooked it to the TV and bought a 24" iMac. I recently celebrated two years Windows-free* and it was a beautiful moment.

Generally I found that I was so used to all the fiddling and fussing required to use Windows on a daily basis that I felt like I was somehow hamstrung or at least limited on the Mac. What was really happening is that I didn't have to do all the fiddling and fussing. It took a few weeks to feel comfortable that it really was that simple. So stick with it. It's worth it.

Everyone else has given you pretty good advice (well, I'd ignore the windows fanboys carrying on about viruses). I was an Outlook junkie before and used both Entourage and then Outlook on the Mac for a while but since I'm not using Exchange decided to try the built-in Mail. Again it took some getting used to but I much prefer the simplicity to all the clunky boxes, buttons, toolbars, dropdowns, and slidey things of Outlook now.

Other stuff I'd add: I like to use Movist for movies vs VLC; it's got a much more Mac-like user experience and plays pretty much the same stuff (including WMV files). If there are any particular web applications you use a lot, check out Fluid, which lets you make an app out of them. I use it for Google Wave and Grooveshark.

Finally, make friends with Spotlight. It's pretty much awesome. I no longer have an Applications folder in my dock, and in fact can't remember the last time I even went digging in there. Just cmd-spacebar and type a letter or two to launch an application. Same to find an email, or document, or movie, or what have you. ..

Enjoy your new Mac.


* we have one Windows machine (a new Mac Mini) hooked to the TV and running Windows 7 Media Center because it's the best DVR we can get in Spain

SQ421

Continuing the attempt to get the thread back to more relevance(though the discussion about viruses (if radius is radii, why not virii ) was certainly informative)....

I've been having a play with my friends borrowed C2D macbook (mentioned upthread) and already, I'm rather comfortable with the usual tasks. Mapped Command to Ctrl and vice versa, and most if not all windows shortcuts are transposable.

Still getting my head around the .dmg files (are these the equivalent of setup files in windows) and where they need to live once downloaded (in windows, I download files to the \download folder and install in \Program Files after which the downloaded file may or may not be deleted)....

Libre Office for OSX looks okay, might spend some more time with documents in LibreOffice to get a feel for the menu's et al.

Pity I can't try Chrome for Mac on this one (its running 10.4); though I imagine it won't be all that different from Chrome for Windows.

Running 10.4 means no App Store for Mac, which means I'm not able to download the trial version of sparrow mail which I was hoping to take for a spin. Will have a play with Mail for Mac later tonight.

Stay tuned.... And thanks for the help so far... Keep it coming...

LIH Prem

dmg is disk image. You mount it like a disk by opening it. It's literally a disk image.

Then you either run an installer if that's what is shown there after you open it, or the weird thing the first time you see it, you are shown two icons, one is the app, the other is your applications folder and you will see an animation telling you to drag the app to the applications folder. In that case, that's what you do, drag the app icon to the applications folder right there. That will copy the app (all the files, etc, that it needs to run later) into your applications folder. Some stuff has an installer, but most apps just install using the copy to the applications folder method.

Once you have done that (in both cases the app was installed and copied out of the mounted "disk image"), and ejected the disk (drag the mounted file to the trash unmounts it, or command/click, then select eject from the context menu or use the 2 finger tap on the trackpad for the context menu) you can move the dmg file to the trash. You don't need it anymore. There's no need to keep it after you have installed it or copied the application to the applications folder and unmounted it.

Not sure why your friend is running 10.4, but that's way behind.

You can use thunderbird instead of mail.app if you want to. either one is ok, I guess, or you could say they all suck equally I suppose I'm using t-bird. They both have a unified inbox if that's what you want. It's optional to use it.

I am using chrome, and it works fine on the mac. Chrome is pretty much the same everywhere. I also have firefox installed, but rarely use it, and sometimes I revert to safari (like when logging in to hotspots, etc.)

-----


One of the nicer things when compared to windows is the ability to have location specific network settings including systemwide location specific proxy settings. If that's something you can take advantage of, it's very powerful. Most apps have a preference for using whatever system proxy settings are in effect, and you can switch between locations (and their settings) in the pull-down menu in the network settings applet. Play with that, it's very powerful. I have settings for "work", "home" and "away", and for when I need to get out of trouble, a simple "no proxy" setting. Once you have it set up, you can keep the network settings applet open (but hidden in the dock), and just change your location via the pull-down menu and hitting apply.



You have a trackpad, right? Have you been getting used to the multi-touch gestures? I don't use a mouse at all, even with the mini at home. Just trackpads. (I actually hated using the mouse on a mac, but not so on Windows for some reason.) Once you start using the gestures, you will find yourself trying to use them on your windows machines too.

-David