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A workflow discussion

A workflow discussion

Old Sep 4, 2014, 12:00 pm
  #1  
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A workflow discussion

I wanted to start a discussion about workflows. In general, but with some specifics for my particular situation. I did some searches and found some information but I thought that it might be worthy of a current thread.

I am really starting almost from scratch from a strategy standpoint. I recently returned from a trip with between 1500 and 2000 images. Each from a Sony DSC-RX100. I shot everything as RAW+JPEG in maximum size. I want to use Lightroom on a Mac and if possible an iPad. I am currently making two duplicate backups, one on Google Drive and one on Dropbox. The backups are straight copies of the SDHC cards, nothing at all done to them, just a drag and drop copy of the card.

What do people suggest for the next steps? The images are a mix of informational/memory of the trip type things (signs, etc.) pictures of exhibits in museums, and tourist type pictures primarily. Any general thoughts and specific tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old Sep 4, 2014, 2:22 pm
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My general workflow, illustrated by the 1200 images I came home with this summer:

Import into Lightroom - I import them by logical grouping (i.e., on my last trip, one set each for Iceland, Paris, Greece, Istanbul). For each - rename the images based on a standard naming convention (Year, Location, Description - "2014 Iceland Summer Family Trip"), and add keywords that apply to all images (Iceland, vacation, family)

Sort the keepers - one finger on the right arrow, one on the P - quickly sort the good from the bad. Filter the un-selected, and delete. (I used to keep everything because "you never know...". Now I don't). About 300 of the 1200 made it this far.

Rank - repeat again, with fingers on 1 through 5, and star-rank each image. I ended up with something like 150/100/30/15/3 of 1 through 5 stars.

Assign keywords - more detailed keywords by smaller groupings (Thingvellir, Golfoss, Reykjavik, coastline, kids, birds, etc.)

Global settings - (I should put these in an import Pre-set, but I haven't) - I have standard sharpening, vibrance, clarity, lens correction settings as a starting point. Apply to one, select all, copy settings.

Start with highest ranking and begin detailed processing - this repeats ad infinitum, or until I get tired. Of the 1200 shots from the trip, and 300 keepers, I edited, exported, and shared about 50. I think I stopped when I got through the 5/4/3-star images.

Export in full resolution JPEG, upload to Smugmug, with a new gallery for each country/subject. Copy top 5-10 images to the "Best Shots" gallery that scroll on the homepage. Re-synch iPad SyncPhoto/SmugMug apps to have the images available. I haven't bothered with LR or other iPad editing tools - I use it for display only.

Everything is backed up in real-time to an attached external drive and, within a few hours, to a Crashplan backup site, so I don't backup during the LR import or copy the entire card up front.
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Old Sep 4, 2014, 5:07 pm
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Workflow

Thanks OP for starting this thread.

There are as many workflows as there are photographers (or enthusiasts).

I normally shoot RAW only, never RAW+JPG. I think LR does a better job converting RAW to JPG than my DSLR. Other reason being too much of memory space on SD card is consumed by half the number of shots.

CPRich did a real fine job outlining his work flow, which is very similar to my own.

I collected over 400,000 images, scattered over several high capacity HDs. My workflow is very rigid. I started when I am on the field by creating a field catalog that is imported into my Master catalog after I return home/office. With the "keepers", I do 90% of my editing on LR, 10% in PS. I dont use iPad or any tablet. I carry a light weight i7 quad core based PC on the road. I triple backup while in the field. I dont use cloud storage (despite I have Smugmug with unlimited storage).

My Lightroom workflow:
Organize photos by folders by year & by date (beginning date of major trip) by trip (e.g. RTW)

Top level folder to show Year, e.g. Year 2014, next level is Trip, next level is location.

Year 2014
20140225-RTW01 (top down level folder for entire trip)
20140226-AMM-EOS 6D (sub-folder)

20140904-RTW02
20140905-CPT-D610 (sub-folder, id by location and camera type, if multiple cameras)
20140908-JNB-D610 (another similar sub-folder to as many as needed.

Import trip photos into LR
Sort by stars; flags etc
Globally or photo specific keywords
Camera calibration set to your camera type (download if not included)
Further sort them by creating collections (architecture; flowers; food; landscape)
LR edit those images inside Collections (sometimes I make virtual copy before I edit.

Lightroom collections: (this holds keepers for further editing)

Publish to online services (such as FB, Smugmug etc right from LR). Need to get Plugins.

Backup LR cat on a separate HD (set LR preferences to back up every time LR exits; it tends to default to back up once per week)

It is worthwhile to get the latest LR upgrade (now at LR5.6)
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Old Sep 4, 2014, 11:26 pm
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I shoot in RAW + JPEG. My camera (Nikon D7000) has two memory card slots, so one card gets the RAW, and the other, the JPEG. I mostly shoot that way because while I'm on the road, I'll often want to quickly post a photo or two each day to services like Facebook and Instagram, and having a JPEG copy of everything makes that a bit easier. When I get home, the JPEGs don't get kept.

Once home, my workflow is similar to those above. I import the RAW files into Lightroom. I've got folders organized by year, month, and then sometimes, trip (for big trips). I don't bother with renaming files in my import, since the folder structure and my somewhat obsessive organization and tagging habits in Lightroom make it easy to find what I'm looking for without renaming files. During the import, I have a preset that applies copyright information, lens corrections, a standard amount of sharpening, and a few other minor adjustments. Sometimes I'll also add some keywords that apply to the full set.

After the import is done, I usually create a collection in Lightroom for the trip, or for a portion of the trip if it's a big one with a lot of photos. My most recent vacation, to Italy, ended up with three collections, by destination - Venice, Florence, and Rome. Last year's Africa trip was a bit more, with collections for Dar Es Salaam, Zanzibar, Tarangire, Ngorongoro, Serengeti, Manyara, Johannesburg, and Mauritius.

Then I start with each collection to delete any rejected photos (I flag as rejected with the x key). After the first pass of that, I'll remove those photos, and sometimes make a second pass of what remains to see if there's anything else I want to reject. Then I tend to rank the best photos. I don't apply star ratings to everything, but usually to what I consider the best, four and five star images. I also keyword everything that remains, and edit and caption the best images that I want to post online. I also geotag anything that wasn't geotagged already (I usually shoot with a GPS encoder attached to the camera).

Finally, anything I want to post online gets added to a collection that ends up getting published to my SmugMug site. I may also create virtual copies of some images for publishing to stock photo sites I sell on. Those virtual copies go into their own collections, so that I can make captions and keywords a bit more targeted to stock sales than publishing to SmugMug. I may also adjust the editing some to be more stock-appropriate.

Finally, everything gets backed up to CrashPlan on a nightly basis. I tend to also make a manual backup to a networked hard drive that stays at home, since I travel with my laptop most weeks. Generally, I end up with three copies of all of it; one on my laptop's SSD, one on the networked drive at home, and one in the cloud on my CrashPlan account.
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Old Sep 5, 2014, 8:26 am
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This topic is a tough one to make a short response to.

Different from already posted above:

I backup the originals more, 3 copies, two on CDROM and one on older flash cards that are slower that what is in the camera, or a USB thumb drive.

I'm shooting only raw now, gave up on raw+JPG because the JPGs never got used.

Most of my final output is usually printed.

I'm Using Bridge (Br) and mostly Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) for raw development and Photoshop (Ps) for most images. Lightroom (Lr) installed, but not set up yet. Most if not all of the below would work with Lr. Sometimes use the camera manufacturer software, and am thinking about DxO (Optics Pro 9 and Viewpoint 2.)

After backup, images are loaded from the card to '[My ]Pictures/Incoming/YYMMDD-Topic' (In Lr, 'Incoming' could be a separate database that can be merged in to a main one later, like the 'field' one mentioned in the post above.)

The below is a two step rating/selection process. It saves time later, since fewer images make it into ACR or Ps for individualized processing.

Part 1 - Rating and culling images
Check Output First
This can't be emphasized enough: Before rating images, make sure your final output will be ok. If you are printing on paper, grab one good random image and print it. If the printed version doesn't look like it's on the screen, you can't properly evaluate the images on-screen will waste a lot of time later trying to make it print right. If it's way off, you may even reject some images that would printed ok, and vice versa.

If publishing for the web, export the test image, email or publish it, and look at it on another device. If using a hosting service, you don't want to find out the hard way they are reprocessing your images in a way that trashes the quality.

The test images do not need to be perfect, but the color balance, brightness and contrast on your screen and paper or the web should be predictable.

Pre-Processing
While the images are still in "incoming" make all bulk changes such as Lens correction and adding GPS IPTC, keywords and other metadata. No image processing for color/contrast/exposure and no sharpening.

To handle a lot of images, create a small number of temporary collections called 'temp-description' and stuff double handfuls of images into these. You can also add some more metadata in bulk as you are tagging files into the collection.

This lets you break evaluating hundreds of images into manageable pieces. If you shot in a night club, you might use temp-TheBand, temp-People and temp-Other.

Change over to Filmstrip view and rate individual images.

To make this easier, pick one of the temporary collections if you created one. Filter to only "unrated" images. As you rate images, they will disappear off the screen. This requires you use the direct keys (control 1..5 on PC) and not the 'add/subtract a star' method.

Rating (brutally):
"reject" for total losses (Pictures of the inside of your lens cap)
1,2: for photos with multiple major defects and further image processing may not save it.
3: An ok photo. It has at least one defect but is better than not having an image.
4: Great image (but could still be improved.)
5: Beyond perfect -- the image has to be "Wow!"

4's are very rare, and 5's usually don't come until after further image processing. There may be no 5's at this point. There may be no 5's in hundreds or thousands of images.

Select from the good ones via Labeling

'Select' here means 'Selected for further image processing'

Stay in Filmstrip view and filter to show only the images rated 5, 4 or 3, and assign labels for "select" and "second" for the same image series/subject. Head to head, one image is better than the other in some way. Not all images will be labeled, i.e. selected, and some 3's may be selects because that's all there is to work with. If you select two images, Lr and Br can show them side by side to help compare them.

While labeling, the image rating may get readjusted.

Any test or setup imagees like a color checker or white or gray card is a 'select'.

"Yup, that's still crap" review.

When done with the higher rated images, go back and select only the 1's and 2's this time for a last review to see if any images, that might be far from perfect but still have some value.

If you delete, this is the point where all the rejects and 1's would be dumped, and maybe even the 2's.

The above is for an initial sort/select.

Once done, delete or rename temporary collections. If keeping the images on your hard disk move the folder using Bridge from 'incoming' to final folder in 'Pictures'/'My Pictures' folder. If Lr, you might moves these to your master database, or a separate one if you work that way. If offlining the images, copy to offline storage, 2 copies is better, then delete.

Sets like photographs of foursomes at charity golf event get offlined after printing -- the images have no value after this and just use disk space.
At some point, I'll change to Lightroom for part or all the above.

Part II

Take the selects, and possibly some "seconds" into Photoshop/ACR/LR or other software for more work. Save-as .PSD (mostly) and leave the original raw file. If the edits improve the photo a lot, rerate upwards. Refine keywords and other metadata each individual image at a time.

Last edited by reft; Sep 5, 2014 at 4:24 pm Reason: clean up a few things
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Old Sep 5, 2014, 8:49 am
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Further thoughts and questions

On a slightly different note, (so in a different post) one reason I haven't changed from Bridge to Lightroom yet, are a few questions still to be worked out, some of which are perpetual questions with no good universal answer.

One Lr Database or more than one?
It seems a lot of people recommend one large one as long as Lr performs ok, but more than a few folks opt for several. Some wedding photographers willl use one per Wedding. I'm leaning right now for around 4-6, to separate personal images from photos taken for work or for other people.

Import everything into Lr, or just the best stuff?
In a no-delete workflow, another consideration for Lr, is to only bring in images that are above the 50 percentile, and leave the poorer ones and rejects outside of Lr out of the index.

I think in Scott Kelby's on Lr, he said something along the lines of "You're only ever going to show your 4's and 5's, you deleted the 1's (and maybe 2's) and won't ever go back to the 3's to show to anyone." This makes a case for pre-processing outside of Lr, then only importing the better images.

Folders and File naming
I have a lot of folders with meaningful names containing files with meaningless names that are not unique. These are stored in a few master folders with names like "Organization" "Family" or "Dayjob" and other major subject headers. At some point in the future, I plan a bulk rename from /[My ]Pictures/MasterFolder/CCYYMMDD-Topic/Meaningless.raw to a much flatter one: /[My ]Pictures/MasterFolder/CCYY/CCYYMMDD-Topic-Sequence.raw. I haven't finalized on a naming scheme yet. I want to work this out and do all the renaming before I bring these into a Lr database.

Tying digital files to the physical world sources
Related to the above, is how to match the Digital files back to the physical world photograph items, either a box of negatives, or the backups made of the camera files before processing. A 36 exposure roll suggests a digital folder with 36 images in it, but the digital environment isn't restricted to 36. Rolls of film also get split over several days and topics and do not always have 'date shot' information that makes it easier to break up a 2 card - 7 day vacation digital collection.

Last edited by reft; Sep 6, 2014 at 7:04 am Reason: credit Kelby
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Old Sep 5, 2014, 3:53 pm
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One of the notes above reminded me - If you haven't calibrated your monitor and created/obtained custom .icc printer profiles, you may not get exactly what you expect.

It's not like your reds will turn out to be green, and it depends on your sensitivity/tolerance. But a 1-time investment is well worth it. You don't need to go crazy (unless you're a pro publishing in magazines) - my X-rite device/targets were <$300 are a great investment (they make everything else look right also).

I consider it one of my few essential accessories, along with the LensAlign setup.
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Old Sep 5, 2014, 8:10 pm
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Originally Posted by CPRich
One of the notes above reminded me - If you haven't calibrated your monitor and created/obtained custom .icc printer profiles, you may not get exactly what you expect.

It's not like your reds will turn out to be green, and it depends on your sensitivity/tolerance. But a 1-time investment is well worth it. You don't need to go crazy (unless you're a pro publishing in magazines) - my X-rite device/targets were <$300 are a great investment (they make everything else look right also).

I consider it one of my few essential accessories, along with the LensAlign setup.
Yes, calibration is a religion. I use Spyder 4 Pro, and set it up to remind me every 2 weeks for re-cal.

Now that we are on to equipment. I was forced to upgrade my desktop to the latest: SSD to run OS and all apps (boy is this nice!), and lots of SATA disk space inside the box. 27" primary monitor with a second 22".

I keep a Master catalog, and many individual catalogs. I often re-work using the individual catalog before merging it into the Master. It is a lot less time consuming to work with the individual cat. NOTE: all my cats are on SSD, with the backups on external USB3 drives.

Fortunately LR5.6 is quite stable.
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Old Sep 5, 2014, 11:48 pm
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Thanks all, this is incredibly helpful. I have 3 backups of the cards made and a working copy of the images on a 1 TB external hard drive. I have the beginnings if a folder system set up. I've gotten Scott Kelby's Lightroom book and am doing some reading before starting the inputs. I also need to think through my naming/folder structure a bit more.
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Old Sep 6, 2014, 12:33 am
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Well, I don't like or use Lightroom so my process wouldn't be much help to you. I will agree with a couple of the up-thread posts that refer to their processes for rating and keeping/deleting images. If you are going to be shooting a lot of images, you need to work up a FAST method to tag and rate them or you will bog down before you ever get to the post-processing step.

I use a viewing/sorting program that has color tagging and use it ruthlessly, as do, I suspect, the folks who do the same in Lightroom. A couple of seconds to look, a color button click and then on to the next. I'll often do a second run through of just the ones I tagged as best, demoting some after a second look.

Spend your time closely examining and then processing your best keepers, not all the also-rans. After the 5* (red-coded for me) images are done you may want to go back and take another, more critical look at the 4's and 3's if you have time.
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Old Sep 6, 2014, 8:39 pm
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I don't use Lr either. I've just never gotten into it. I've made a start from time to time but just building the catalog, keywording, etc is just too much trouble.

My workflow is a bit chaotic but it works for me. When I am traveling I backup all of the pictures at the end of every day to a portable HDD. But I also keep them on the SD cards too since cards are cheap these days. I only shoot RAW. I don't see much point to having all of those JPGs too since I never do anything with them. I will usually take a couple of shots that I like from each day and do some quick edits on my laptop to share with the folks back home.

Once I get home I copy all of the daily image folders to my computer's HDD and an external HDD. So I end up with a bajillion copies.

Typically I will have reviewed the photos the day I took them so I have a pretty good idea which images I like.

Since I shoot Olympus m43 when I travel these days I will often just do quick edits using the Olympus Viewer 3 software which does a great job with Oly RAW files.

But I also sometimes use DxO Optics Pro 9 since it does lots of corrections automatically. And if I am doing HDRs then I will use PS6/Nik HDR Efx. From time to time I will do some things with filters in PS if I want to do something more creative.

I always save the output files to a separate folder that collects all of the edited photos. Since I usually do a book with Blurb it helps to have them all in one place.

Last edited by glennaa11; Sep 7, 2014 at 9:07 am
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Old Sep 6, 2014, 9:41 pm
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Hey OP great thread! Awesome to see how others are doing it!

Made the switch from Aperture to Lr a couple years ago, really like it (except for this creative cloud non-sense, might have to switch back =)

Very similar workflow here, I shoot in just RAW and once I get home back everything up to my backup drive (clean drag and drop from the SD Card).

I import to Lr and then, I usually only pick just one, two, or max three pictures (yes thats right out of 1000+) that I think represent the trip well (I'm a doc and travel for international medical relief work, expeditions, etc. so I usually like having one or two pics that I can immediately give to my organization for them to publicize, many times this will be done in the field and the back up will be to my 500gb SSD Lacie rugged). Basically its just an ultra quick sort and I usually have a pretty good idea going in what those pictures are. This allows me to start working on them immediately, and also honestly just procrastination really of the very boring task of flagging and tagging w/ keywords the rest of the set. (I've never quite been able to efficiently use the star rating system, i always look back and inevitably the phrase: "I rated THAT a 3 star???!!!" will cross my lips). I do end up going through all of them and tagging with keywords (HDR, Landscape, Culture, etc. ).

For post-pro I use NIK Software Suite of plugins and couldn't be happier with the results. Specifically HDR Efex Pro, Color Efex Pro, and Vivaza. Its easy and quick (read: I'm very lazy), literally 3 mins, to go from something like the top image to the bottom image. Without having to bother with lackluster Lr presets or adjustments and/or the time suck that is Ps. It works for me anyway, just gotta be careful sometimes of crossing that "HDR Look" line.



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Old Sep 7, 2014, 7:24 am
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
I am really starting almost from scratch from a strategy standpoint. I recently returned from a trip with between 1500 and 2000 images. Each from a Sony DSC-RX100. I shot everything as RAW+JPEG in maximum size.

What do people suggest for the next steps? The images are a mix of informational/memory of the trip type things (signs, etc.) pictures of exhibits in museums, and tourist type pictures primarily. Any general thoughts and specific tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Unless you're shooting to 2 separate storage cards as ssullivan mentioned above, I don't see the point of RAW+JPEG.

Originally Posted by CPRich
Export in full resolution JPEG, upload to Smugmug,
Curious, why export to jpeg to upload to Smugmug?
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Old Sep 7, 2014, 8:05 am
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Originally Posted by cheepneezy
Unless you're shooting to 2 separate storage cards as ssullivan mentioned above, I don't see the point of RAW+JPEG.
In this case, OP has already shot both, but there are lots of reasons.

Both allows the jpegs to be used the same as 'proofs' are for shooting film. The JPGs can be gotten to a printer or email box quickly, raw has a few extra steps.

A lot of hardware/software/websites don't do raw. Examples:

If you use a EyeFi Card, or other device/software that doesn't support raw, you need to shoot raw+JPG. The apple ipod camera connector reportedly will get the raw files, but the ipod wasn't capable of displaying them.

Windows and MAC OSX have different and sometimes lacking support for displaying raw files. If you have the jpg's next to them, and use finder or explorer at all, you can see what's in the raw image via the jpg. Apple seems to be better at updating themselves, but for windows, it seems to have to go to the camera manufacturer's web site as well as cross your fingers.

Like a lot of decisions in photography, there is no correct answer here, it depends on what your needs are, not someone else's; those needs can change over time.
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Old Sep 7, 2014, 7:16 pm
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Originally Posted by reft
In this case, OP has already shot both, but there are lots of reasons.

Both allows the jpegs to be used the same as 'proofs' are for shooting film. The JPGs can be gotten to a printer or email box quickly, raw has a few extra steps.

A lot of hardware/software/websites don't do raw. Examples:

If you use a EyeFi Card, or other device/software that doesn't support raw, you need to shoot raw+JPG. The apple ipod camera connector reportedly will get the raw files, but the ipod wasn't capable of displaying them.

Windows and MAC OSX have different and sometimes lacking support for displaying raw files. If you have the jpg's next to them, and use finder or explorer at all, you can see what's in the raw image via the jpg. Apple seems to be better at updating themselves, but for windows, it seems to have to go to the camera manufacturer's web site as well as cross your fingers.

Like a lot of decisions in photography, there is no correct answer here, it depends on what your needs are, not someone else's; those needs can change over time.
The idea was that the JPEGs could be emailed, posted, etc as discussed. In reality, they have been more useful that that. I definitely have to relearn Lightroom. I used Lightroom 1, but that was obviously a long time ago. As I mentioned, I have gotten Kelby's book and started it to relearn and am finding it very useful. In the meantime, I posted all ~2075 JPEGs on a FLICKR account. While obviously a lot of noise in that it has been a useful exercise. I spent a few hours organizing them all into albums on FLICKR depending on the location or other criteria.

The trip was visit to WWI sites and museums (IWM London, Poppy exhibit at the Tower of London, Brussels, Flanders, the Somme, WWI museum in Mouex and Verdun), the Champagne district and Normandy (Bayeux Tapestry and Omaha Beach area). This included some museums and historical signs/markers. So this organization on FLICKR let me group everything by site while I could still remember, and is giving me an idea of keywords and other grouping tools (informational signs/museum signs/museum displays/ food/etc.). So it has been a useful first step for organization while I can remember and am learning Lightroom.
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