Breastfeeding Mother Embarrassed on UA Flight
Mar 16, 2015, 8:32 pm
#76
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,042
This previous post is what I mean by a militant attitude. "Popping out the boob anytime and anywhere." Calling people perverts. Wow. In my generation, the bottle was prevalent and breast feeding less common and done in private. Many people haven't seen it much in public or in private, and they feel a bit uncomfortable seeing what they view as a private act. Not sexual but private. Times are changing and the thing to do is MYOB, of course.
Mar 16, 2015, 9:22 pm
#77
Join Date: Sep 2010
Programs: HHonors Diamond; My Mom's Favorite Kid
Posts: 3,929
This previous post is what I mean by a militant attitude. "Popping out the boob anytime and anywhere." Calling people perverts. Wow. In my generation, the bottle was prevalent and breast feeding less common and done in private. Many people haven't seen it much in public or in private, and they feel a bit uncomfortable seeing what they view as a private act. Not sexual but private. Times are changing and the thing to do is MYOB, of course.
It's not about bottle versus breast. No one would care about a boob popped out if lecherous gramps would keep in it in pants. But we accept his behavior as "kookie" and get around the discomfort of witnessing it by creating all these rules to keep temptation away from him. Instead we should be forcing him to change his behavior and not making the rest of the world bend to his "kookiness".
Mar 16, 2015, 9:32 pm
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SNA
Posts: 18,240
Breastfeeding in our culture is challenging. Most of our moms and mother-in-laws didn't do it and are either clueless or sometimes downright unsupportive. Husbands want to help but feel like this is the one area somewhat beyond them. Some babies take right to it, some don't. The last thing we need to add to all of that is making the mother worry about whether everyone around her is "comfortable" or not.
Mar 16, 2015, 10:16 pm
#79
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
I'm not called average Joe a perv because he caught a glance he'd rather not have. Average Joe is totally ok. But the whole thing is because of mildly lecherous grandpa. You know the guy makes the grocery checker uncomfortable. The guy who says inappropriate things to young women he passes at a bus stop. The guy who whips his penis out at the drive-thru. The guy who can't control his eyes, hands, mouth, or other body parts. The guy society won't call out on his behavior. The guy society won't shame in to behaving properly. Instead we clutch our pearls and tell the breast feeding mother to cover up so she won't incite grandpa into climaxing. We make his deviance her problem.
It's not about bottle versus breast. No one would care about a boob popped out if lecherous gramps would keep in it in pants. But we accept his behavior as "kookie" and get around the discomfort of witnessing it by creating all these rules to keep temptation away from him. Instead we should be forcing him to change his behavior and not making the rest of the world bend to his "kookiness".
It's not about bottle versus breast. No one would care about a boob popped out if lecherous gramps would keep in it in pants. But we accept his behavior as "kookie" and get around the discomfort of witnessing it by creating all these rules to keep temptation away from him. Instead we should be forcing him to change his behavior and not making the rest of the world bend to his "kookiness".
Am I the only person who thinks this rant about "mildly lecherous grandpa" makes no sense? Especially in the context of breastfeeding?
Mar 16, 2015, 10:20 pm
#80
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Austin TX
Programs: Mr Swise: AAdvantage LifetimePlt/3MM, HH Dmnd, SPG Plt
Posts: 1,451
Here! Here!
And I don't know what being "conservative" has to do with anything either. I'm a bible loving, George Bush voting, only slept with one man ever, porn-hating conservative woman. Popping the boob out to feed my baby happens anytime and anywhere. It is the best thing for him and as a mom that's what I choose to give him. I have absolutely no bad feelings about it what-so-ever save for the perverts who stare and hover. And you know what? It's not my son who is the problem. It's the sexual deviants who choose not to look the other way ir act out who are the problem. Those people are the jerks who make breast feeding an "issue". But instead of chastising and humiliating them into behaving in a socially acceptable way we graciously avert our eyes to their d-baggery and blame the baby and the mom. We criminalize the innocent to avoid calling out poor behavior in a very, very minuscule segment of our population.
And I don't know what being "conservative" has to do with anything either. I'm a bible loving, George Bush voting, only slept with one man ever, porn-hating conservative woman. Popping the boob out to feed my baby happens anytime and anywhere. It is the best thing for him and as a mom that's what I choose to give him. I have absolutely no bad feelings about it what-so-ever save for the perverts who stare and hover. And you know what? It's not my son who is the problem. It's the sexual deviants who choose not to look the other way ir act out who are the problem. Those people are the jerks who make breast feeding an "issue". But instead of chastising and humiliating them into behaving in a socially acceptable way we graciously avert our eyes to their d-baggery and blame the baby and the mom. We criminalize the innocent to avoid calling out poor behavior in a very, very minuscule segment of our population.
Really, I don't think perverts are anywhere close to the primary concern people have with public breastfeeding, either as a mother feeding her baby or as a bystander. I think what bothers people is simply the exposure of a breast, knowing that, somewhere under a baby, a nipple has been "popped out". Even though the nipple and surrounding breast are most likely never actually seen, people know it's not under a shirt and undergarments. This causes discomfort to some.
This is about what you're likely to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r501NT3NYw4&t=69 (This is from a 1970's Sesame Street clip)
In most cases, you'll probably see less than this, because you won't be zooming in, and because most women wear a tank top under a shirt, lift the shirt up/tank down, and nothing is visible. I've had people come up to me and hug me and touch my baby without realizing he was nursing.
Mar 17, 2015, 3:49 pm
#81
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 312
I've had men tell me that they don't mind if I breastfeed in public as long as I don't mind if they look. I've even had men tell me that if I breastfeed in public they can't be held responsible for what they'll do to me (online, anonymously, natch -- nobody is brave enough to say that to my face).
Mar 19, 2015, 8:39 am
#82
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: France
Programs: United Plus
Posts: 1,761
Sorry I wasn't able to chime in on this very entertaining thread. I was in the States and had trouble signing into this site. I had to watch this thread agonizingly and couldn't participate!
Just to clarify, no, the Flight Attendant wouldn't be fired for a one-off incident like this. If a Flight Attendant has multiple passenger-mishandling issues, they will be called in, talked to and probably given a warning. Even with non-union airlines, the cost of training a F/A makes firing them over one incident, not very wise. We could get fired for stealing, lying to the company, but also constantly being late, missing flights, security breeches, etc. Basically, something that truly would inconvenience or put our passengers in danger, which doesn't include ticking them off!
I'm mentioning this because most of you here have the chutzpah to complain but sometimes passengers don't, because they're afraid that they'll get someone fired. Go ahead and report anything amiss without worry, breastfeeding related or not. At a minimum, they'll have to explain it to a supervisor. Plus, you might get something to compensate.
Covering up is not required in many places and airlines apologize quickly if a woman is required or pressured to do so. For the record, in 13 years, I saw perhaps one or two women breastfeeding without covering themselves so I really see this as a non-issue. One woman took a business class seat to breastfeed, claiming it was more discrete. That was not cool with the crew and captain.
Even though it can be quite cramped in economy, most passengers aren't really looking down into people's laps anyway, whatever they're doing. When you're standing, your view is well above. When you're seated, to look at another passenger, you have to kind of stick your head out and stare, and who does that anyway? I think if you are truly offended at mothers feeding their babies this way, it's quite easy to not look at them.
Breastfeeding in France was super easy. I never had problems, but some of you might remember the old 50 franc bill? Bear-breasted Marianne, leading the troops to battle... Plus, many of you are familiar with the architecture and artwork in France. So picture me sitting in a cafe, with a bear bust above the door, perhaps some artwork with naked breasts on the wall and then paying with an old 50 franc note...breastfeeding was almost redundant!
Someone mentioned flying a Gulf company. I worked with some former F/A's from those companies. One coworker recounted how a woman came on board her flight, completely covered, as women are in that part of the world, complete with a mask but when her baby started crying, she whipped out the boob in First Class without hesitation. I've heard similar stories of women see men coming, grabbing their scarves to cover their hair but continuing to breastfeed their babies.
Just to clarify, no, the Flight Attendant wouldn't be fired for a one-off incident like this. If a Flight Attendant has multiple passenger-mishandling issues, they will be called in, talked to and probably given a warning. Even with non-union airlines, the cost of training a F/A makes firing them over one incident, not very wise. We could get fired for stealing, lying to the company, but also constantly being late, missing flights, security breeches, etc. Basically, something that truly would inconvenience or put our passengers in danger, which doesn't include ticking them off!
I'm mentioning this because most of you here have the chutzpah to complain but sometimes passengers don't, because they're afraid that they'll get someone fired. Go ahead and report anything amiss without worry, breastfeeding related or not. At a minimum, they'll have to explain it to a supervisor. Plus, you might get something to compensate.
Covering up is not required in many places and airlines apologize quickly if a woman is required or pressured to do so. For the record, in 13 years, I saw perhaps one or two women breastfeeding without covering themselves so I really see this as a non-issue. One woman took a business class seat to breastfeed, claiming it was more discrete. That was not cool with the crew and captain.
Even though it can be quite cramped in economy, most passengers aren't really looking down into people's laps anyway, whatever they're doing. When you're standing, your view is well above. When you're seated, to look at another passenger, you have to kind of stick your head out and stare, and who does that anyway? I think if you are truly offended at mothers feeding their babies this way, it's quite easy to not look at them.
Breastfeeding in France was super easy. I never had problems, but some of you might remember the old 50 franc bill? Bear-breasted Marianne, leading the troops to battle... Plus, many of you are familiar with the architecture and artwork in France. So picture me sitting in a cafe, with a bear bust above the door, perhaps some artwork with naked breasts on the wall and then paying with an old 50 franc note...breastfeeding was almost redundant!
Someone mentioned flying a Gulf company. I worked with some former F/A's from those companies. One coworker recounted how a woman came on board her flight, completely covered, as women are in that part of the world, complete with a mask but when her baby started crying, she whipped out the boob in First Class without hesitation. I've heard similar stories of women see men coming, grabbing their scarves to cover their hair but continuing to breastfeed their babies.