Jul 18, 2019, 5:20 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91.
Best FT thread for referencing EC261/2004: The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Note update - 2016 June 10
EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf
Where and how to address for EC 261 claims:
Link to article on Wikipedia: "The Flight Delay Compensation Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 is a regulation establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding, flight cancellations, or long delays of flights. It repealed Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, and went into effect on 18 February 2005. It sets out the entitlements of air passengers when a flight that they intend to travel on is delayed or cancelled, or when they are denied boarding to such a flight due to overbooking, or when the airline is unable to accommodate them in the class they had booked." It applies to Member States and includes French overseas territories.
Heretofore, the ruling only applied to flights leaving Europe on all airlines, or flights from anywhere to Europe, on European airlines. Most recently (July 2019), a new European Court of Justice ruling commands that even flights which connect to non-EU airlines, but were booked as one ticket from the EU must be compensated. (link to article on godsavethepoints.com)
Link to EC 261/2004 text in several languages.
Link to language (English) Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) of EC 261/2004
Link to description by Air Passenger Rights a "multilingual consumer website explaining the rights of air passengers in the European Union."
Link to contact details of EC 261/2004 enforcement bodies
Link to English language EC 261/2004 compliaint form PDF
Email for EC claims at (to determine)
Link to BAEC Forum lengthy EC261/2004 thread.
Link to thisismoney.co.uk article explaining EC261/2004.
Emirates told to pay out on missed connection claims, by Mark Caswell, Business Traveller, 19 Mar 2018
“Despite all this, expect airlines to give you a hard time with your claim. File a claim on your own, but if you find yourself stonewalled or denied unfairly, enlisting a firm like AirHelp or Bott & Co can be huge, since they fight the case for you, in exchange for a 25% cut of the recovered cash. A 75% chunk of something is better than 100% of nothing.” (godsavethepoints.com)
Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the
(lower right wiki corner)
Best FT thread for referencing EC261/2004: The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Note update - 2016 June 10
EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf
Where and how to address for EC 261 claims:
EC261/2004 claims should be lodged with the operating airline.
Go to the complaints page, select "Submit a complaint", and select "Delay" in the drop-down box.
Keep the comments to the bare minimum - stick to the facts, and best to use bullet points. Keep all commentary about anything other than the bald facts of the case out of the submission ("We were very upset and disappointed..." etc etc) and make no reference to any of the topics already explained to you in this thread to be of no relevance to the airline or to this claim ("We lost the first pre-paid night of our vacation as we had a non-refundable hotel booking" etc etc)
Attach scans/photographs of your boarding passes - the original boarding passes showing the original departure details, and the replacement boarding passes showing the later actual departure details - and include the original e-ticket receipt and any communications/emails/texts from the airline notifying you of the delay.
I would also advise you specifically write that you want the €600 per passenger in cash (transferred to your bank account) rather than a voucher to be used with TAP within 12 months of 50% greater value...unless this truly is your wish. I've explained above why it is generally a bad idea to accept a voucher in lieu of cash.
Go to the complaints page, select "Submit a complaint", and select "Delay" in the drop-down box.
Keep the comments to the bare minimum - stick to the facts, and best to use bullet points. Keep all commentary about anything other than the bald facts of the case out of the submission ("We were very upset and disappointed..." etc etc) and make no reference to any of the topics already explained to you in this thread to be of no relevance to the airline or to this claim ("We lost the first pre-paid night of our vacation as we had a non-refundable hotel booking" etc etc)
Attach scans/photographs of your boarding passes - the original boarding passes showing the original departure details, and the replacement boarding passes showing the later actual departure details - and include the original e-ticket receipt and any communications/emails/texts from the airline notifying you of the delay.
I would also advise you specifically write that you want the €600 per passenger in cash (transferred to your bank account) rather than a voucher to be used with TAP within 12 months of 50% greater value...unless this truly is your wish. I've explained above why it is generally a bad idea to accept a voucher in lieu of cash.
Code:
The regulation applies to any passenger: - departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies;
Code:
The protection accorded to passengers departing from or to an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight and where a community carrier is defined as any carrier licensed to operate within that community.
Code:
- departing from an EU member state, or travelling to an EU member state - on an airline based in an EU member state if that person has: - a confirmed reservation on the flight, and - arrived in time for check-in as indicated on the ticket or communication from the airline airline, or, if no time is so indicated, no less than 45 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time of the flight or - have been transferred from the flight for which he/she held a reservation to some other flight unless - the passenger is travelling on a free or discounted ticket not available to the general public, other than a ticket obtained from a frequent flyer programme. It does not apply to helicopter flights, to any flight not operated by a fixed-wing aircraft, nor to flights from Gibraltar Airport.[1] (wikipedia)
Heretofore, the ruling only applied to flights leaving Europe on all airlines, or flights from anywhere to Europe, on European airlines. Most recently (July 2019), a new European Court of Justice ruling commands that even flights which connect to non-EU airlines, but were booked as one ticket from the EU must be compensated. (link to article on godsavethepoints.com)
Link to EC 261/2004 text in several languages.
Link to language (English) Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) of EC 261/2004
Link to description by Air Passenger Rights a "multilingual consumer website explaining the rights of air passengers in the European Union."
Link to contact details of EC 261/2004 enforcement bodies
Link to English language EC 261/2004 compliaint form PDF
Email for EC claims at (to determine)
Link to BAEC Forum lengthy EC261/2004 thread.
Link to thisismoney.co.uk article explaining EC261/2004.
Emirates told to pay out on missed connection claims, by Mark Caswell, Business Traveller, 19 Mar 2018
“Despite all this, expect airlines to give you a hard time with your claim. File a claim on your own, but if you find yourself stonewalled or denied unfairly, enlisting a firm like AirHelp or Bott & Co can be huge, since they fight the case for you, in exchange for a 25% cut of the recovered cash. A 75% chunk of something is better than 100% of nothing.” (godsavethepoints.com)
Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the
(lower right wiki corner)
GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and TAP
Jul 29, 2019, 1:50 pm
#106
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: JFK/EWR/SFO/LAX/YYZ <-> HKG, PEK, CKG
Programs: CX, Hyatt
Posts: 155
EU261 / Montreal Convention
Hi all - have done some research to little use and hence was hoping you could help take a look at my case and offer advice - thank you in advance. Am a frequent flyer (not with TAP) and this has been one of the most frustrating experiences given TAP's process, handling and lack of responsibility.
I flew EWR-OPO on TAP in J in early Jul and checked 2 luggages (on time). 1 was damaged and the other was delayed. I immediately filed upon arrival at OPO and got 2 ref numbers.
Tried a few browsers and the online complaint form wasn't going through for me, and the form also didn't work for non-TAP issued ticket. TAP's complaint dept told me to send an email to the fale.connosco email which I did detailing my claim - I then start receiving system emails in Portuguese which I don't speak. I called them again and they said they had received my complaint and just wait for a reply - confirmed no action needed on my part. Never got a response. Followed up through email - also did not get a response. Then I insisted the support line to get the online form to work which somehow did then, after spending an hour.
They then replied to the online form with a useless template-ish response. On the damaged baggage they claimed "in order to prevent any damage during this inspection customers are requested not to lock their baggage" and my baggage was damaged so. However, I did not lock my luggage (I am well aware of the TSA approved lock thing). More importantly, the damage of side frame being crushed had nothing to do with TSA's inspection. On the delayed baggage they claim that it was due to TSA screening, but there was no TSA-checked card like one in the other, damaged luggage - I suspect they just made it up. They also claimed I exceeded the 21-day timeframe to file a complaint, but I had sent them formal complaint emails within 21 days which they never responded although their phone staff acknowledged receipt.
I replied through email and was once again hit with Portugese system email - seems to route me to the online form, which again isn't working for my non-TAP issued ticket. I am stuck now.
My questions are:
1. Have done some research, not completely knowledgeable on the relationship between EU261 and Montreal Convention but looking at the guidelines seems like I would be eligible under both. Who would I file with? For EU261 it seems to be EU Commission - but the form doesn't work for baggage - and if I go to European Consumer Center's Portugal office's site, the form is only for Portugal citizens. I am a US (and Hong Kong) citizen and don't think there's an office in the US for me to file with? For Montreal Convention, it would / could be with US DOT?
2. Any advice on how best to proceed considering the complexities in this?
Thanks again.
I flew EWR-OPO on TAP in J in early Jul and checked 2 luggages (on time). 1 was damaged and the other was delayed. I immediately filed upon arrival at OPO and got 2 ref numbers.
Tried a few browsers and the online complaint form wasn't going through for me, and the form also didn't work for non-TAP issued ticket. TAP's complaint dept told me to send an email to the fale.connosco email which I did detailing my claim - I then start receiving system emails in Portuguese which I don't speak. I called them again and they said they had received my complaint and just wait for a reply - confirmed no action needed on my part. Never got a response. Followed up through email - also did not get a response. Then I insisted the support line to get the online form to work which somehow did then, after spending an hour.
They then replied to the online form with a useless template-ish response. On the damaged baggage they claimed "in order to prevent any damage during this inspection customers are requested not to lock their baggage" and my baggage was damaged so. However, I did not lock my luggage (I am well aware of the TSA approved lock thing). More importantly, the damage of side frame being crushed had nothing to do with TSA's inspection. On the delayed baggage they claim that it was due to TSA screening, but there was no TSA-checked card like one in the other, damaged luggage - I suspect they just made it up. They also claimed I exceeded the 21-day timeframe to file a complaint, but I had sent them formal complaint emails within 21 days which they never responded although their phone staff acknowledged receipt.
I replied through email and was once again hit with Portugese system email - seems to route me to the online form, which again isn't working for my non-TAP issued ticket. I am stuck now.
My questions are:
1. Have done some research, not completely knowledgeable on the relationship between EU261 and Montreal Convention but looking at the guidelines seems like I would be eligible under both. Who would I file with? For EU261 it seems to be EU Commission - but the form doesn't work for baggage - and if I go to European Consumer Center's Portugal office's site, the form is only for Portugal citizens. I am a US (and Hong Kong) citizen and don't think there's an office in the US for me to file with? For Montreal Convention, it would / could be with US DOT?
2. Any advice on how best to proceed considering the complexities in this?
Thanks again.
Jul 29, 2019, 4:31 pm
#107
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 32
- I was scheduled to fly FOR-LIS-ZRH with TAP tonight July 29, purchased as a revenue ticket and paid with American Express points.
- I have a separate booking ZRH-AMS with LX for July 31, purchased as an award ticket through UA.
- FOR-LIS on July 29 got cancelled (I believe for "operational reasons") and I got re-routed on the flight on July 30. That flight will make me miss ZRH-AMS and is no longer useful to me.
- I booked a separate award ticket FOR-AMS with KL on July 30 through AirFrance with Amex points.
- I will miss the ZRH-AMS flight, and I am paying for another hotel night in FOR.
I have no travel insurance. What can I do?
- Should I voluntarily cancel FOR-LIS-ZRH through Amex or through TAP? Or can I just not show up for the flight? I called TAP and they were not able to put me on an earlier flight.
- Can I *also* claim EU compensation from TAP? 600 EUR? The hotel night? The additional "points" and surcharges I spent for the KLM ticket?
- Should I have UA refund my ZRH-AMS flight and pay a cancellation fee to reinstate the miles and refund the airport surcharges I paid? This is only worth it if I can claim the cancellation fee through EU compensation.
- I have a separate booking ZRH-AMS with LX for July 31, purchased as an award ticket through UA.
- FOR-LIS on July 29 got cancelled (I believe for "operational reasons") and I got re-routed on the flight on July 30. That flight will make me miss ZRH-AMS and is no longer useful to me.
- I booked a separate award ticket FOR-AMS with KL on July 30 through AirFrance with Amex points.
- I will miss the ZRH-AMS flight, and I am paying for another hotel night in FOR.
I have no travel insurance. What can I do?
- Should I voluntarily cancel FOR-LIS-ZRH through Amex or through TAP? Or can I just not show up for the flight? I called TAP and they were not able to put me on an earlier flight.
- Can I *also* claim EU compensation from TAP? 600 EUR? The hotel night? The additional "points" and surcharges I spent for the KLM ticket?
- Should I have UA refund my ZRH-AMS flight and pay a cancellation fee to reinstate the miles and refund the airport surcharges I paid? This is only worth it if I can claim the cancellation fee through EU compensation.
Aug 3, 2019, 7:01 pm
#109
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: JFK/EWR/SFO/LAX/YYZ <-> HKG, PEK, CKG
Programs: CX, Hyatt
Posts: 155
Hi all - have done some research to little use and hence was hoping you could help take a look at my case and offer advice - thank you in advance. Am a frequent flyer (not with TAP) and this has been one of the most frustrating experiences given TAP's process, handling and lack of responsibility.
I flew EWR-OPO on TAP in J in early Jul and checked 2 luggages (on time). 1 was damaged and the other was delayed. I immediately filed upon arrival at OPO and got 2 ref numbers.
Tried a few browsers and the online complaint form wasn't going through for me, and the form also didn't work for non-TAP issued ticket. TAP's complaint dept told me to send an email to the fale.connosco email which I did detailing my claim - I then start receiving system emails in Portuguese which I don't speak. I called them again and they said they had received my complaint and just wait for a reply - confirmed no action needed on my part. Never got a response. Followed up through email - also did not get a response. Then I insisted the support line to get the online form to work which somehow did then, after spending an hour.
They then replied to the online form with a useless template-ish response. On the damaged baggage they claimed "in order to prevent any damage during this inspection customers are requested not to lock their baggage" and my baggage was damaged so. However, I did not lock my luggage (I am well aware of the TSA approved lock thing). More importantly, the damage of side frame being crushed had nothing to do with TSA's inspection. On the delayed baggage they claim that it was due to TSA screening, but there was no TSA-checked card like one in the other, damaged luggage - I suspect they just made it up. They also claimed I exceeded the 21-day timeframe to file a complaint, but I had sent them formal complaint emails within 21 days which they never responded although their phone staff acknowledged receipt.
I replied through email and was once again hit with Portugese system email - seems to route me to the online form, which again isn't working for my non-TAP issued ticket. I am stuck now.
My questions are:
1. Have done some research, not completely knowledgeable on the relationship between EU261 and Montreal Convention but looking at the guidelines seems like I would be eligible under both. Who would I file with? For EU261 it seems to be EU Commission - but the form doesn't work for baggage - and if I go to European Consumer Center's Portugal office's site, the form is only for Portugal citizens. I am a US (and Hong Kong) citizen and don't think there's an office in the US for me to file with? For Montreal Convention, it would / could be with US DOT?
2. Any advice on how best to proceed considering the complexities in this?
Thanks again.
I flew EWR-OPO on TAP in J in early Jul and checked 2 luggages (on time). 1 was damaged and the other was delayed. I immediately filed upon arrival at OPO and got 2 ref numbers.
Tried a few browsers and the online complaint form wasn't going through for me, and the form also didn't work for non-TAP issued ticket. TAP's complaint dept told me to send an email to the fale.connosco email which I did detailing my claim - I then start receiving system emails in Portuguese which I don't speak. I called them again and they said they had received my complaint and just wait for a reply - confirmed no action needed on my part. Never got a response. Followed up through email - also did not get a response. Then I insisted the support line to get the online form to work which somehow did then, after spending an hour.
They then replied to the online form with a useless template-ish response. On the damaged baggage they claimed "in order to prevent any damage during this inspection customers are requested not to lock their baggage" and my baggage was damaged so. However, I did not lock my luggage (I am well aware of the TSA approved lock thing). More importantly, the damage of side frame being crushed had nothing to do with TSA's inspection. On the delayed baggage they claim that it was due to TSA screening, but there was no TSA-checked card like one in the other, damaged luggage - I suspect they just made it up. They also claimed I exceeded the 21-day timeframe to file a complaint, but I had sent them formal complaint emails within 21 days which they never responded although their phone staff acknowledged receipt.
I replied through email and was once again hit with Portugese system email - seems to route me to the online form, which again isn't working for my non-TAP issued ticket. I am stuck now.
My questions are:
1. Have done some research, not completely knowledgeable on the relationship between EU261 and Montreal Convention but looking at the guidelines seems like I would be eligible under both. Who would I file with? For EU261 it seems to be EU Commission - but the form doesn't work for baggage - and if I go to European Consumer Center's Portugal office's site, the form is only for Portugal citizens. I am a US (and Hong Kong) citizen and don't think there's an office in the US for me to file with? For Montreal Convention, it would / could be with US DOT?
2. Any advice on how best to proceed considering the complexities in this?
Thanks again.
Aug 3, 2019, 7:54 pm
#110
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,832
Aug 3, 2019, 8:05 pm
#111
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: JFK/EWR/SFO/LAX/YYZ <-> HKG, PEK, CKG
Programs: CX, Hyatt
Posts: 155
It's my first time with TAP, and the professionalism is much lower than that of Asian majors, US3 and even Chinese carriers so far.
Aug 8, 2019, 10:36 am
#114
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Programs: SPG LT Plat, Hilton G,Priorty Club G, AC E
Posts: 2,979
Aug 8, 2019, 1:16 pm
#115
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Programs: OZ *G, HHonors Gold, Aclub Plat
Posts: 1,025
Good luck and don't give up!
Aug 9, 2019, 3:56 pm
#118
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
They used to handle EC261 claims efficiently, and chivvy TP into action. But i've no idea how diligently they perform their duties these days.
https://www.anac.pt/SiteCollectionDo...clamingles.pdf
This is a form they invite complainant to complete. The rest of their site seems to have lost its English version, but I guess Google can translate it for you.
Aug 10, 2019, 4:28 am
#120
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
If you are getting stone-walled by the airline, or you do not agree with the airline's decision, I reckon your best recourse would be to write (briefly, concisely) to ANAC or speak to a lawyer, or launch your own action through small-claims procedures.
But unless the sums involved are significant, or you are Ok with the time and effort involved (and possible costs) you might want to chalk this up to experience.