Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > TAP Air Portugal | Miles&Go
Reload this Page >

GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and TAP

GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and TAP

    Hide Wikipost
Old Sep 9, 19, 2:43 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: JDiver
Wiki Link
Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91.

Best FT thread for referencing EC261/2004: The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Note update - 2016 June 10
EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf

Where and how to address for EC 261 claims:

Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
EC261/2004 claims should be lodged with the operating airline.

Go to the complaints page, select "Submit a complaint", and select "Delay" in the drop-down box.

Keep the comments to the bare minimum - stick to the facts, and best to use bullet points. Keep all commentary about anything other than the bald facts of the case out of the submission ("We were very upset and disappointed..." etc etc) and make no reference to any of the topics already explained to you in this thread to be of no relevance to the airline or to this claim ("We lost the first pre-paid night of our vacation as we had a non-refundable hotel booking" etc etc)

Attach scans/photographs of your boarding passes - the original boarding passes showing the original departure details, and the replacement boarding passes showing the later actual departure details - and include the original e-ticket receipt and any communications/emails/texts from the airline notifying you of the delay.

I would also advise you specifically write that you want the €600 per passenger in cash (transferred to your bank account) rather than a voucher to be used with TAP within 12 months of 50% greater value...unless this truly is your wish. I've explained above why it is generally a bad idea to accept a voucher in lieu of cash.
Code:
The regulation applies to any passenger:
 
 - departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to 
 which the Treaty applies;
 
The protection accorded to passengers departing from or to an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight and where a community carrier is defined as any carrier licensed to operate within that community.
- departing from an EU member state, or travelling to an EU member state - on an airline based in an EU member state if that person has: - a confirmed reservation on the flight, and - arrived in time for check-in as indicated on the ticket or communication from the airline airline, or, if no time is so indicated, no less than 45 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time of the flight or - have been transferred from the flight for which he/she held a reservation to some other flight unless - the passenger is travelling on a free or discounted ticket not available to the general public, other than a ticket obtained from a frequent flyer programme. It does not apply to helicopter flights, to any flight not operated by a fixed-wing aircraft, nor to flights from Gibraltar Airport.[1] (wikipedia)
Link to article on Wikipedia: "The Flight Delay Compensation Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 is a regulation establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding, flight cancellations, or long delays of flights. It repealed Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, and went into effect on 18 February 2005. It sets out the entitlements of air passengers when a flight that they intend to travel on is delayed or cancelled, or when they are denied boarding to such a flight due to overbooking, or when the airline is unable to accommodate them in the class they had booked." It applies to Member States and includes French overseas territories.

Heretofore, the ruling only applied to flights leaving Europe on all airlines, or flights from anywhere to Europe, on European airlines. Most recently (July 2019), a new European Court of Justice ruling commands that even flights which connect to non-EU airlines, but were booked as one ticket from the EU must be compensated. (link to article on godsavethepoints.com)

Link to EC 261/2004 text in several languages.

Link to language (English) Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) of EC 261/2004

Link to description by Air Passenger Rights a "multilingual consumer website explaining the rights of air passengers in the European Union."

Link to contact details of EC 261/2004 enforcement bodies

Link to English language EC 261/2004 compliaint form PDF

Email for EC claims at (to determine)

Link to BAEC Forum lengthy EC261/2004 thread.

Link to thisismoney.co.uk article explaining EC261/2004.

Emirates told to pay out on missed connection claims, by Mark Caswell, Business Traveller, 19 Mar 2018

“Despite all this, expect airlines to give you a hard time with your claim. File a claim on your own, but if you find yourself stonewalled or denied unfairly, enlisting a firm like AirHelp or Bott & Co can be huge, since they fight the case for you, in exchange for a 25% cut of the recovered cash. A 75% chunk of something is better than 100% of nothing.” (godsavethepoints.com)

Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the (lower right wiki corner)
Print Wikipost

Old Aug 4, 17, 11:16 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 134
Arrow GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and TAP

Hello all,

I was flying with TAP from LIS-ORY on the 2nd and the flight was delayed for well over three hours, and ultimately got cancelled at 18:10 (scheduled arrival 17:50). I was then put on another flight scheduled to leave at 18:10 but was also delayed and I ultimately made it to ORY at 22:30.

However there were baggage issues as well, since they were not transferred despite being told they were so I didn't end up leaving ORY till after midnight when the last flight from LIS-ORY came in with, thankfully, my bag on it.

It seems I could claim for both the delay and cancellation and it is 250 Euros for each claim? They also failed to provide food or water (I did ask for some), as on the original flight we boarded at 15:30 and sat on the plain till 18:10 when the flight got cancelled.

Would my first step be using the online complaint form here: https://www.flytap.com/en-gb/support/complaint ??

Seems a pretty clear cut case of violation and compensation owed.
Hellfire is offline  
Old Aug 4, 17, 1:59 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 3,511
You cannot claim twice, you were scheduled to arrive at 17:50, you were rerouted and arrived at 22:30, for a flight of <1500km, you can therefore claim 250€, assuming that your original flight was not delayed/cancelled due to extraordinary circumstances etc.

As for food/water, if you bought any and saved the receipts, you should claim this from TAP as well.
Ditto is offline  
Old Aug 4, 17, 2:42 pm
  #3  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 42,872
"Hellfire: It seems I could claim for both the delay and cancellation and it is 250 Euros for each claim? They also failed to provide food or water (I did ask for some), as on the original flight we boarded at 15:30 and sat on the plain till 18:10 when the flight got cancelled."

No, it does not "seem" that at all. EC 261/2004 provides compensation when you are delayed at your final ticketed destination by at least a specified amount of time. In your case, you arrived at 22:30 when you had been scheduled to arrive at 17:50. That is a delay of 4:40. It entitles you to EUR 250. Not sure how you turn that into anything more.

Bags are irrelevant and not covered by EC 261/2004.
LondonElite likes this.
Often1 is offline  
Old Aug 7, 17, 2:20 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: somewhere between Europe and Africa, from SFO
Programs: A3*G, EY Silver
Posts: 7,668
Did you originate in LIS or was LIS-ORY a connection?
Palal is offline  
Old Aug 7, 17, 2:26 am
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by Palal View Post
Did you originate in LIS or was LIS-ORY a connection?
Originated in LIS.
Went MRS-LIS-RAK[stop] -LIS [stop] - ORY on an open jaw.
Hellfire is offline  
Old Aug 11, 17, 2:51 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: somewhere between Europe and Africa, from SFO
Programs: A3*G, EY Silver
Posts: 7,668
Then you're due 250€ in compensation.
Palal is offline  
Old Jul 16, 18, 11:31 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 151
Didn't want to start a new post so I thought I would check in and see if there was any resolution on this. I recently was flying from PDL to LIS and the flight departed 4 hours late and arrived around 3:50 late because of a late inbound aircraft. I filed the complaint through the TAP webform on July 9th and other than the "we've received your complaint", I haven't gotten any response. Any ideas on how long it normally takes to hear anything or how long it takes to resolve? Seems pretty open and shut since it didn't involve any connections and was clearly over the time limit. Would rather not give up 33% if it's just a matter of waiting.

Searches don't show any posts where people actually resolved anything with TAP.
jeff191 is offline  
Old Jul 16, 18, 1:42 pm
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, KL Silver: AZ, BA
Posts: 23,952
That was just a week ago. You really should probably give them another month or so...
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Jul 16, 18, 1:45 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 151
Thanks. No hurry but I wanted to understand what I should expect in terms of timing before I needed to follow up.

Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
That was just a week ago. You really should probably give them another month or so...
jeff191 is offline  
Old Jul 17, 18, 7:36 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 701
I filled out the online complaint in January for a missed connection that caused me to spend the night at LIS. To add insult to injury, I probably could've made the connection but they had already offloaded me and three other BRU-bound passengers... and then the outbound left an additional half hour late so we definitely could've made it

They still hadn't gotten to it last week so I gave up and hired one of the agencies to chase them down.
der_saeufer is offline  
Old Jul 17, 18, 4:58 pm
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 134
Just to close the loop on this I eventually got a cheque from TAP in November for the amount owed. I had to follow up a few times.
tecate55 likes this.
Hellfire is offline  
Old Jul 17, 18, 9:11 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,388
Originally Posted by jeff191 View Post
Thanks. No hurry but I wanted to understand what I should expect in terms of timing before I needed to follow up.
My FNC-LIS flight on 10 June was cancelled and the subsequent flight delayed so I arrived in Lisbon 3 hours and 50 minutes later than originally scheduled, which means €250 per passenger.

Submitted a formal complaint on 11 June via the TAP website (which was auto acknowledged) and followed up multiple times via email, Twitter and call centre. Eventually got put through to the complaints team after a little HUACA and was advised by the lady that TAP will respond after 28 business days.

It's somewhat coincidental that the Portuguese authority for enforcing EU261, the Autoridade Nacional da Aviação Civil (ANAC), has this to say on their English complaint form (bolding mine):

2) Should the airline fail to provide you with a reply within 6 weeks of receipt or, if you are not satisfied with their reply, this form (a copy of the original form sent to the airline may be used) should be sent to the national enforcement body in the Member State where the incident took place.
So reading between the lines, TAP have decided to make customers wait the full six weeks allowed by ANAC before providing any sort of response to delay payment as they know no action will be taken by the regulator before then. I have emailed ANAC twice and have had zero response.

Will be following up with TAP later this week once the 28 business days have elapsed.
Coathanger is offline  
Old Jul 18, 18, 3:48 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,790
Originally Posted by jeff191 View Post
Searches don't show any posts where people actually resolved anything with TAP.
Don't be discouraged. There are cases that get resolved. it may take a few follow-ups (Facebook always worked best for me - sending a message with the case number and asking for status)
my last time was probably around 3 yrs ago. but I had a "slam dunk", cancelled flight and a paper from Swissport, Geneva airport stating "Lack of crew".
My family was also compensated for hotel and meals booked on their own from a diverted flight - took 10 months but got the money back
GBM.flights is online now  
Old Jul 31, 18, 7:29 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 151
Thanks, this is a very helpful data point. It's somewhat irritating that no updates are reflected on their website other than the original "complaint received" but I guess that's just how they operate. I'll likely check in just to see but won't expect any response until 28 business days.

In the meantime I'll go back to getting Delta to credit me MQM's for a rebooked flight due to a delay on the incoming connection. Apparently their system doesn't think it's an eligible segment.

Originally Posted by Coathanger View Post
My FNC-LIS flight on 10 June was cancelled and the subsequent flight delayed so I arrived in Lisbon 3 hours and 50 minutes later than originally scheduled, which means €250 per passenger.

Submitted a formal complaint on 11 June via the TAP website (which was auto acknowledged) and followed up multiple times via email, Twitter and call centre. Eventually got put through to the complaints team after a little HUACA and was advised by the lady that TAP will respond after 28 business days.

It's somewhat coincidental that the Portuguese authority for enforcing EU261, the Autoridade Nacional da Aviação Civil (ANAC), has this to say on their English complaint form (bolding mine):



So reading between the lines, TAP have decided to make customers wait the full six weeks allowed by ANAC before providing any sort of response to delay payment as they know no action will be taken by the regulator before then. I have emailed ANAC twice and have had zero response.

Will be following up with TAP later this week once the 28 business days have elapsed.
jeff191 is offline  
Old Jul 31, 18, 9:50 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,388
Originally Posted by jeff191 View Post
Thanks, this is a very helpful data point. It's somewhat irritating that no updates are reflected on their website other than the original "complaint received" but I guess that's just how they operate. I'll likely check in just to see but won't expect any response until 28 business days.

In the meantime I'll go back to getting Delta to credit me MQM's for a rebooked flight due to a delay on the incoming connection. Apparently their system doesn't think it's an eligible segment.
I've followed up with their Twitter team after getting no email response. They confirmed it was under investigation since 26 June (rather than the 11 June submit date), so I've filed a complaint with ANAC using their English PDF form.

I've got all the time in the world so will just keep plugging away at our friends in Lisbon (who actually have a good quality in flight product and friendly cabin crew).
Coathanger is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread