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Some of the Hotel Casino point programs are rather obtuse. Harrah's in particular can be puzzling.
I would welcome a place to discuss Harrah's rewards, etc. |
Before I run off to spend a [romantic] evening in Boston (using Hyatt points, of course ;);) ); I wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has provided feedback with regard to this potential forum. I'd also like to thank bhatnasx for providing a thread that links from the Vegas forum.
While I know a number of people are not particularly fond of gaming (gambling); I hope we were able to show that there is definitely a strong miles&points connection to the various casino programs. And, while a special interest, it is most definitely one in which many people spend a considerable amount of time contemplating, using and redeeming points for awards. For those that are concerned, that there might not be enough interest, I think making it a consolidated global forum will ensure that there will be numerous topics of discussion. In addition, at any time, there are many threads that would be moved from the Vegas forum, as they are more comp/reward program related than specifically Vegas related. I'll leave you with one final example from the Vegas forum, that has little to do with Paris Las Vegas, but a lot to do with Harrah's Total Rewards (much, in the same way Faster Free Nights is more about the Hyatt Program, than about the Grand Hyatt New York, specifically) The OP opens the thread with :
Originally Posted by nrr
(Post 9821637)
I received a mailing from paris casino (part of harrah's system.) They are giving cash/gift card/chips if you get a specified number of reward credits in the period from 8/8-8/10 (this is a 72 hour period, I assume; they don't give the starting and ending times.) The lower numbers look manageable, but one line caught my attention: 167,000 reward credits and you get $5,000. [For my level of play, reward credits = 3 x tier score. Each $5 played on a (non-video poker) slot machine is 1 tier credit.] This means that if i play (only:rolleyes:) $278,333 on slots in that period, i will get $5000 cash bonus. So on a 3 wheel $100 slot machine with 2 pushes per minute (when you win:) there is a lag time to update the count, if you play 6 hours a day for the three days you would have cycled $648,000 through the machine, making this feat a possibility, but IMHO, this level of play is very farfetched (or is it?)
Originally Posted by mikeef
(Post 9830947)
Certainly not farfetched, but it sounds like only a couple of percent back. The better question is, is it worth it? Harrah's machines are notoriously tight.
My other question is regarding your point calculation. By "reward credit," do you mean the bonus on top of tier points? I never figured out how they calculate those, but most promos I have seen are based on tier points. I have no status with Harrah's, though, so I'm sure it is different. Now, regarding 3 RCs (Reward Credits) per tier, that is a very high rate, but I don't doubt nrr, since this is slot play (and not VP). Of course, RCs is a bit, YMMV -- and can vary by machine, denomination, length of play (i.e. you might start accumulating more after your first or second 1,000 tier points etc. etc. etc.) Now, concerning this promotion, we examined one last year (from August 2007, IIRC) which I received from Paris (and, at the time, they had 8/5 multi-play VP machines that were giving more than the usual in RCs). My friend David loves to crunch the numbers for these promotions -- so, here is what he came up with, during our discussions last year. These are the assumptions : $1, 8/5 Bonus Poker which has an expected return of 99.17% In Harrah's world; 1,000 Tier Points is $10,000 Coin-In at Video Poker This offer translates into the following, based on the assumption (that some have verified over the past week) that Tier:Bonus is 1:3.8 6,600 Tier ($66,000 Coin In) to generate approx. 25,000 RCs for $750 Cash (and the comps $250 earned) 10,500 Tier ($105,000 Coin In) to generate approx. 40,000 RCs for $1,200 Cash (and the comps $400 earned) 22,000 Tier ($220,000 Coin In) to generate approx. 84,000 RCs for $2,500 Cash (and the comps $840 earned) 31,000 Tier ($310,000 Coin In) to generate approx. 117,000 RCs for $3,500 Cash (and the comps $1,170 earned) 44,000 Tier ($440,000 Coin In)to generate approx. 167,000 RCs for $5,000 Cash (and the comps $1,670 earned) Just for your information, the play level that will give you the most cashback return rate is the $105,000 tier to generate $1,200 cashback. That breaks down to 1.142857142% cashback plus you'll get .38095238% comps for a total of 1.52380972% return between both of them. But I think that this is a much more difficult tier to go after based on playing $1 8/5 Bonus for the time that you have. The $66,000 coin-in to generate $750 in Cash is 1.136363636% cashback plus .378787878% comps is the best way to go. It gives you an additional 1.51515154% combined return which gives you about 100.68% long-term return with perfect play. Both the $220,000 level as well as the $440,000 level give you the exact same % rate of cashback as the $66,000 of coin-in will get you plus only a little more percentage in comps. Now, I can speak more about the play of 9/6 Jacks, Pick 'Em & 10/7 Double Bonus Poker for the amount of money that you can churn through. And since 8/5 Bonus Poker returns a lower percentage rate than the above-mentioned games, I'd say that more money should be dedicated for this specfic play. As we know, since 8/5 Bonus returns a bit less than 9/6 Jacks, I would say that you should have a bit more money for the bankroll for this game and so for running $66,000 of coin-in through (based on the numbers for the promotion), my estimate is that your bankroll should be about $17,000 to $18,000 to be able to churn through the money at a good rate. $66,000 is about 4 times $17,000. But do keep in mind that playing through $66,000 of coin-in at $5 per hand would leave you having to play 13,200 hands. So one person who played the game at exactly 400 hands per hour would need to play for 33 hours to play through this $66,000 of coin-in. If you said that this has to be done from the 10th through the 13th of August, assuming that you have 4 full days to do this, you'd have to play for 8 hours per day. So you might need someone else to help you do this (preferably someone who knows how to play 8/5 Bonus Poker well). But also make sure of the hours that you can do this promotion (actually the hours that the casino defines as a Slot Day). I mention this because I have heard that at least at certain Harrah's connected casinos, the Slot Day runs from 6AM-6AM. So make sure that you don't end up messing things up because the day for this promotion may not be 12 Midnight-12 Midnight. So make sure that you ask about this before you start playing. Have a great weekend!!!! |
I'd visit this forum.
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Originally Posted by magiciansampras
(Post 9837506)
I think it is time for someone to make a motion on this one...
Edited to add - I'll be offline June 11-16 and probably wouldn't make a motion (if I do) before then. |
40 Million Members +++ WOW!
Originally Posted by bhatnasx
(Post 9843299)
Still waiting to hear any other pros & cons & ideally get more member feedback (not that many people have posted here relative to other forum creation threads), but honestly thinking about it...
With that being said, it is interesting to look at the fact that this forum will represent ALL of the Casino Gaming Award (Miles & Points) Programs Worldwide. Just Harrah's Total Rewards program had 40 million members in 2005. From the Associated Press in 2005 : Chairman of gambling giant Harrah's Entertainment lays out future. The most expensive acquisition in the gambling industry's history under his belt, the chairman of Harrah's Entertainment plans to use new properties in his empire to retain and attract more spenders to a preferred customer program. Harrah's picked up four new Las Vegas resorts in its nine dollar billion purchase of Caesars. Chairman Gary Loveman hopes will appeal to both luxury and budget visitors, and boost membership in the Total Rewards program. With more than 40 million members, the Total Rewards program is the most successful in the industry and one of the reasons Harrah's has become a Wall Street darling. The program allows Harrah's players to earn credits that can be redeemed for comps at the company's properties nationwide. Benefits include priority service at Harrah's restaurants, clubs and hotel front desks. It is unique in the industry because 45-year-old Loveman, a former Harvard professor and marketing maven, uses the personal information from customers to cater to preferences and attract them back to Harrah's properties. |
Support for Forum
This Forum will generate significant interest if it is approved. Taking full advantage of casino comp systems is an art that is absolutely analogous to the miles/points topics of FT. I definitely would contribute.
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FULLY in support of this forum
I think that a lot of the reticence regarding a new forum on this topic is based on the somewhat puritanical assumption that gambling is 'wrong'. Those views should not be allowed to interfere with the creation of the forum IMO.
I think it would be fair to argue that FT stopped being about miles specifically a long time ago. It is now more about points and loyalty bonuses, and the understanding (and in many cases manipulation) of how they are awarded and best used. The casino, industry has some of the most obscure, diverse and complicated loyalty based rewards on the planet, and given the amount of FTers that are interested in gaming, and the hotels and systems, a forum on the topic can only be a good thing. It would, in my view give savy FTers the means to maximise their returns, and give them the most return on their play. Excellent idea all round! |
FYI I just started a thread in the New England forum (because there is a lack of a better place) that would have been a great thread for this new forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=834107
Thanks. |
A couple of years ago, a similar idea about having an international flavored gaming thread was voted down at FT. I, and several others were disappointed to say the least. But times have changed and maybe this time there will be at least enough interest to give it a try. Many on FT, whether on business or pleasure have been to places that have some sort of casinos, and at times tried their hand at a game and might want to give some kind of a trip report on how they found the facilities, dealers, etc. Others might have questions about particular destinations that they've never been to, that might have casinos and what the different rules are in other parts of the world. Where on FT might they ask and get the information?
Couple of quick questions from me, that might fit into such a forum: Does London still have a 24 (or is it 48) hour rule where you have to first register with a casino there then wait the required amount of time before you come back to play? What happened to Caesars Tahoe? Been a while since we've been to casinos in both above destinations, and both questions would fit into a new gaming forum. With so many casinos all over the world, surely there would be enough interest generated to keep the new forum active. A definite "yes" vote from here. Thanks for bringing it up one more time, BK. bj-21. |
Originally Posted by anonplz
(Post 9820041)
As an example of how gaming travelers are underserved, when was the last time the Aviator's Club (Paris) was discussed?
I'm off to Paris on Thursday via OpenSkies (merci beaucoup, Randy!):D:D and emailed Aviation Club de France with a few questions; unfortunately they haven't replied. I guess I might just need to go and check out the place in person. :D |
Originally Posted by baccarat_king
(Post 9896509)
LOL :D
I'm off to Paris on Thursday via OpenSkies (merci beaucoup, Randy!):D:D and emailed Aviation Club de France with a few questions; unfortunately they haven't replied. I guess I might just need to go and check out the place in person. :D |
I love my craps and hold 'em and Lord knows I've given my money to casinos on four continents so there's no moral objection from me.
But as I posted in the private TB forum, the problem I have is more systemic to the structure and organization of FT. Supporters of this forum can say that a gaming destinations forum will be all about comps and casino points, but we all know that, just like the United Mileage Plus forum about the ENTIRE United experience rather than about just points and miles, there WILL be conversation-creep in a gaming destination forum and it will be about everything from the strategies for blackjack to the best strip club in Atlantic City. No amount of moderation will stem that overwhelming tide. So we need to make a strategic decision: are we ready to shift special interest travel from 'travel as' and 'travel with' (eg, travel as a woman, travel with a disability) to 'travel for' (eg, travel for gambling, travel for golf, travel for drinking)? I can see the advantage of such a shift but I worry it would devastate the geographic destinations forums. So it's a tough and very important call. |
I've been reading this thread with interest, and while I'm usually all for creating new forums, my concern is similar to that of kokonutz, specifically where we draw the line. I actually think the demand is there for such a forum and it'll ultimately be adding traffic to FT, but I doubt it would contribute to the core goals of FT. I get to spend tomorrow night sitting next to baccarat_king on the inaugural OpenSkies flight from JFK to ORY, so maybe I'll gain some new insight.:D
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FWIW, based on comments such as Koko's above, I've made a recommendation that scope be changed from Gaming Destinations to Gaming Loyalty Programs in hopes that will garner more support. I believe this is a good forum for FT given the loyalty marketing aspect of the gaming industry.
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Originally Posted by bhatnasx
(Post 9902911)
I believe this is a good forum for FT given the loyalty marketing aspect of the gaming industry.
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