kokonutz

Speaking only for myself, I ran for the Talkboard on a platform that included reforming the standards for creating a new miles or points forum by placing greater emphasis on having a core group of flyertalkers passionate about the program than on posting metrics or corporate maturity. In the past the standards for creating new forum were, imho, too high.

Revisiting the VX decision was simply a first step in attempting to deliver on that general reform.

But I'm not too worried about the backlash I have taken over this issue. I am quite certain that these intelligent, passionate posters will eventually get what they desire and deserve on the issue's merits and wont long be denied it on some peculiar sense of 'respect for institution' trumping addressing the issue purely on its merits.

Jenbel, your post and especially your sarcasm makes me smile. Would it were that I knew less about British policies and politics than I do, particularly as it relates to your love/hate relationship with the EU. I do understand your perceptions. And am well aware that they are shared by a great many of your countrymen as a point of pride. But my challenging them is based on a great deal more than Mr. Google. As an outsider forced to look in from time to time as part of my job, my perception is that while your political institutions may have a more refined facade (such as 'replacing' rather than reversing unpopular decisions), they are in fact far more cut-throat and partisan than one sees in American politics in many ways.

All of which is obviously a bit of an aside to the question at hand but that's just one of many wonderful aspects of Flyertalk: having our perceptions challenged by those who bring a different perspective.

Goodness knows that my perceptions certainly have been challenged by this entire kerfluffle over what, in my mind, should have been a no-brainer.

bhatnasx

I know I haven't really chimed in too much on this thread, but I have been reading it regularly.

FWIW, I'm one of the TB members who did vote no on this motion. Not because it didn't pass in the previous motion - but because I'm not convinced that VX (given route distribution & frequent travel program in its current phase) should have its own forum as I do believe that the Other North America/South America FFP forum does meet the needs of this start-up airline. In the future, once its a more established airline, if it grows into such, I do believe I would vote yes for the forum. If it maintains the minimal route distribution that it has & doesn't grow its FFP, then I would contend that the ONASAFFP forum would suffice.

I know that that many passionate people in this thread disagree with my opinion on this subject matter, but that is how I view the topic - and FWIW, I've joined the eleVAte program & know people who have experienced the product.

I apologize in advance if I don't respond to posts in this thread if you reply to my post as I will be offline for the majority of the next few days on vacation.

ozstamps

Agree.

I saw no fervent election promises from any new TB members to re-vote on matters TB had already duly rejected 5 minutes earlier.

Had they run on such open platforms they may well have NOT got voted in, as many wise members here would not have supported Candidates seemingly hell-bent on changing recent decisions - simply as is was POSSIBLE to do so .. and not for any valid good reason.

TB convention has always been that was the deal, and that common sense convention has served TB and FT very well it seems to me.

I was on Talkboard a month or two back when we voted that VX did NOT warrant a Forum yet, and had no FF plan, limited aircraft and route network, and ZIPPO materially has changed since.

I am curious what other recent TB votes might be spilled to a new vote simply as it is technically "possible" to do so.

itsaboutthejourney

If we had a VX forum maybe you wouldn't be so misinformed! VX does have a FF program. It's called eleVAte and they have assigned unique numbers to people who join that FF program and are associating flight and purchase history to those numbers. What they have not announced is the redemption levels or other partners. Again, this point in the VX FF program's evolution is a perfect time for FlyerTalk to establish a forum dedicated to it so current and potential customers and people such as yourself can be educated about it. If oz is confused, I can only imagine how confused others are.

cblaisd

Well said, Ozstamps and NickB. ^

Dovster

Oz, both you and I opposed this forum's establishment when we were on TalkBoard.

Both you and I still think this is an idea whose time has not yet come.

However, neither you or I are still on TB -- and for the same reason: we decided not to run again because we thought it was healthier for FlyerTalk to have new voices and new blood on TalkBoard.

We should not expect these new members to be our clones. They were elected to use their own judgement in their votes.

To date, all of the old TB members who have announced how they voted in this new ballot have kept to their previous stands. Cholula was in favor last time around and he still is. Spiff and bhatnasx were opposed and they still are.

I would expect no less from them (or any other TB member). They gave the issue considerable thought just a very short while ago and made their decisions. Nothing significant has happened since then to make this forum and more or less viable.

Indeed, the viability of the forum is the only question which TB members should be considering. How a past vote went does not matter. How Oz or Dovster felt about it is also unimportant. The fact that last time ScottC/Jenbel made and seconded the motion and this time it is Kokonutz/Punki is immaterial.

That is why I would hope (and expect) all of the old TB members to vote the way they did last time -- and why new TB members, who are fresh to the issue, to vote solely on the basis of the forum's viability.

Spiff

Nothing personal, but the amount of time required "so current and potential customers and people such as yourself can be educated about (sic) the eleVAte program" is about 30 seconds at the Virgin America website. The program is pretty lean, to be polite. Aer Lingus, Spirit, et al have much more viable FF programs and they're nowhere near ready for their own forum.

whlinder

I'd like to thank Spiff and bhatnasx for voting to help prevent clutter on the miles and points page. ^^ to both of you.

kokonutz

Only, imho, becasue they dont have a core group of passionate flyertalkers asking for one. It is the PEOPLE who make FT what it is, not the programs.

Lol. C'mon, Linder! You can do better than THAT!

whlinder

You want a better thought out reponse or a better sarcastic comment?

I'm not going to waste time laying out why I think it is a bad idea when it is pretty clear that it will pass.

If a better sarcastic comment is what you're looking for, well honestly I don't think I'll ever be able to measure up to your high standard in that regard.
--

For those who may think that last sentence is intended as an insult at my dear friend koko, please be aware that is not the case.

itsaboutthejourney

Spiff: your sarcasm is endearing.

So we should send FlyerTalkers over to the VX website when they want to know about VX?

Even the mighty spiff has put out eroneus facts about VX (ie: no FF program), don't you think having a dedicated place for all things VX would help solve such confusion?

At some point VX will expand eleVAte, do you not want FlyerTalk to be ready with a dedicated place for all things VX as the program evolves and the airline (hopefully) grows? This is a golden opportunity for FT to be ahead of the curve.

kokonutz

MUCH better!

itsaboutthejourney

only to have said "clutter" disbursed between the ONAAA (or whatever the heck it's called) forum and the Virgin Atlantic threads. nice!

Sounds like whlinder cares less about a small, dedicated VX community than keeping the FT pull-down list short.

whlinder

Posting threads in the correct forum is clutter? lol

And posters being unable/too lazy to read the names of the forums is a reason to create a new one? So if I start posting about, oh lets say Spirit in multiple forums because I am too lazy to figure out where they should go it should have its own forum?
Yeah it's some dedicated community. It refuses to post in the correct, existing forum for Virgin America posts (Other N/S America FFP) because that forum doesn't happen to be named "Virgin America Forum". Dedication indeed. Is this dedicated VX community on strike from posting about VX until it has its own forum? That must be the explanation for why there are so few posts about this airline and its FFP.

kokonutz

In fairness, having looked into this issue pretty carefully before making the motion, the vast majority of the VX posts are posted in the other north and south america programs forum.

But some are also posted in the Virgin Flying Club forum as well as other random places. Not because anyone is lazy or stubborn, I think, but because folks are confused about where to post as it seems that the airline should have its own forum. @:-)

Further, you are falling into the trap of trying to place metrics on something that does not exist as yet. How many travel technology questions about PC operating systems would be posted on FT if there was not already a travel technology forum? Same with any other forum.

Anyway. How come you haven't given me my rash of crap about the Orange Bowl yet???